Are you madabout kit cars      
 "We've Got Kit Cars Covered" Information about Madabout-Kitcars.com Contact Madabout-Kitcars.com         Home of UK kit cars - madabout-kitcars.com Various kit car write ups All the latest kit car news Kit car related and general discussion

Search
Manufacturers
Kit Cars
Kit Car Data sheets
Picture Gallery
SVA Knowledgebase
Clubs & Communities
Build cost estimator
Kit cars for sale
Knowledge Base 
KitcarUSA.com
Classic-Kitcars.com
 

Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Vintage and Classic Roadster Kit Car Builds

Vintage and Classic Roadster Kit Car Builds For Vintage and Classic era kit cars. Post your build reports, problems and progress here

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #281  
Old 20th November 2017, 09:58
Barber's Avatar
Barber Barber is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Camberley
Posts: 760
Barber is on a distinguished road
Default

I am really enjoying this thread. As mentioned previously, the Sabre is something I looked at a long time ago, and concluded it was above my competence level to complete. - I was right. I am now experiencing a vicarious build.
Reply With Quote
  #282  
Old 20th November 2017, 10:14
Amir Manzoori Amir Manzoori is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Ealing London
Posts: 33
Amir Manzoori is on a distinguished road
Default

Hi Peter,
As always, I admire your patience, dedication and quality of work. This Royale Sabre, as I see it, will be one of a kind and a pleasure to own and drive. I hope you get rid of your cold and back to the real work, producing the best Sabre.
Meanwhile wishing you and family happy Christmas and New year.
Reply With Quote
  #283  
Old 25th November 2017, 20:11
peterux's Avatar
peterux peterux is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,757
peterux is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barber View Post
I am really enjoying this thread. As mentioned previously, the Sabre is something I looked at a long time ago, and concluded it was above my competence level to complete. - I was right. I am now experiencing a vicarious build.
Thanks, Barber. Glad you are enjoying my updates. Happy to be your surrogate builder


Quote:
Originally Posted by Amir Manzoori View Post
Hi Peter,
I hope you get rid of your cold and back to the real work, producing the best Sabre.
Thanks Amir for your best wishes!

Whilst staying in the warm waiting for my cold to pass I spent a good few hours studying the BMW wiring diagrams for my BMW 328i engine.
The engine management wiring loom terminates at a 25 way circular multiplug known as the x20. This is very convenient but the details of the individual terminals are scattered across multiple pages of the wiring diagrams.

I've created my own x20 connection diagram from the BMW diagrams. I then checked my spreadsheet with my actual loom and I found only one discrepancy.

The picture below is the 'car side' of the connector that will be spliced into to the main wiring loom, although only 12 wires need to be connected.

BMW x20 connector by Sabrebuilder, on Flickr

I guess the proof of the pudding will be next year when I power up the engine

....peter
Reply With Quote
  #284  
Old 29th November 2017, 17:43
cabrioman's Avatar
cabrioman cabrioman is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 160
cabrioman is on a distinguished road
Default

Hi Peter, glad to see things are still ticking along on your build.

Question for you, do you know if the sabre owners club is still active?, I am considering buying a Sabre next year and tried to contact the owners club to join but got no reply, wondered if you knew if it was still going?

Have you seen the 2+2 Sabre conversion thats being done on kitnet, worth a look if you have not.

John
Reply With Quote
  #285  
Old 30th November 2017, 05:29
Amir Manzoori Amir Manzoori is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Ealing London
Posts: 33
Amir Manzoori is on a distinguished road
Default Cabrioman searching for Royale Owners Club

Royale Owners club is up and running and the website is www.royaleownersclub.org.uk
Reply With Quote
  #286  
Old 30th November 2017, 07:24
cabrioman's Avatar
cabrioman cabrioman is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 160
cabrioman is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amir Manzoori View Post
Royale Owners club is up and running and the website is www.royaleownersclub.org.uk
Yeah I had seen the site. I made an enquiry via the contact information on the site to ask if the downloadable member application form and membership secretary address was current before I sent off payment but I never got any response.

I was also wondering if there was an online payment system for membership rather than sending a cheque.

Hence the enquiry to Peter who I know from the Marlin forums.

Iíll drop them another enquiry.

John
Reply With Quote
  #287  
Old 30th November 2017, 10:46
Amir Manzoori Amir Manzoori is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Ealing London
Posts: 33
Amir Manzoori is on a distinguished road
Default

Dear John,
I have just informed our club chairman Mr. Peter Gibbon to reply to your enquiries and hope you soon become a member.
Regards
Amir
Reply With Quote
  #288  
Old 30th November 2017, 14:45
Amir Manzoori Amir Manzoori is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Ealing London
Posts: 33
Amir Manzoori is on a distinguished road
Default

Hi John,
As peter couldn't get into madabout-kitcars.com he replied to me and you can read it below.

Amir

Amir,
It seems I need a user name and password to reply, does John not have an email address? Feel free to give John mine for any enquiries, and yes he can apply through the treasurer and pay by bank transfer if he wishes.
Kind regards Peter

(peter.gibbons20@gmail.com)
Reply With Quote
  #289  
Old 30th November 2017, 18:00
peterux's Avatar
peterux peterux is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,757
peterux is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabrioman View Post
Hi Peter, glad to see things are still ticking along on your build.

Question for you, do you know if the sabre owners club is still active?, I am considering buying a Sabre next year and tried to contact the owners club to join but got no reply, wondered if you knew if it was still going?

Have you seen the 2+2 Sabre conversion thats being done on kitnet, worth a look if you have not.

John
Hi John,
I think Amir has answered the first part of your question. Thanks, Amir.

Are you thinking of buying a Sabre kit to build or a completed car?

I hadn't seen the 2+2 conversion before your comment but now I've had a chance to have a look it's a very interesting development. Some of the early Royale Motor Company adverts have a reference to a 2+2 model but I'm not aware of any cars or kits produced by the factory. It will be interesting to see what he does about the hood?

...peter
Reply With Quote
  #290  
Old 30th November 2017, 20:03
cabrioman's Avatar
cabrioman cabrioman is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 160
cabrioman is on a distinguished road
Default

Hi Peter

Iíll most likely buy a car thats useable and then do project updates to it rather than buy a basket case or build / rebuild from scratch. I am hoping to retire next year and quite like the idea of going off for trips in it. With a Sabre I think it could include the Mrs but with the existing Marlin its a bit too snug a fit for her liking.

I thought the + 2 on kitnet looked interesting. Not that I need the seats but it looked like it would create some useful space behind the front seats. To be honest I have always thought the hood on the Sabre could have been better if it had been a bit bigger ( extended towards the back of the car) so you would assume the + 2 would have to do that. As you say it will be interesting to see how he approaches the hood.

Do you happen to know if there is an electronic version of the Sabre build manual available from anywhere, I would like to have a look at it but searching the web has not turned up a source.

Whats the timescale for yours to IVA, you seem to have nailed most of the difficult development.

Cheers

John
Reply With Quote
  #291  
Old 1st December 2017, 08:33
peterux's Avatar
peterux peterux is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,757
peterux is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabrioman View Post
Hi Peter

Iíll most likely buy a car thats useable and then do project updates to it rather than buy a basket case or build / rebuild from scratch. I am hoping to retire next year and quite like the idea of going off for trips in it. With a Sabre I think it could include the Mrs but with the existing Marlin its a bit too snug a fit for her liking.

Do you happen to know if there is an electronic version of the Sabre build manual available from anywhere, I would like to have a look at it but searching the web has not turned up a source.

Whats the timescale for yours to IVA, you seem to have nailed most of the difficult development.

Cheers

John
Hi John,
I think the Sabre is an excellent choice for touring. It would be worth chatting to Peter Gibbons as he has done extensive Continental tours in his car. I'll PM you about the Build Manual.
Timescales to my IVA are really just as long as it takes

...peter
Reply With Quote
  #292  
Old 4th December 2017, 21:19
peterux's Avatar
peterux peterux is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,757
peterux is on a distinguished road
Default Near disaster

The timing cover on the BMW M52 engine has three M6 torx-head bolts that go down through the cylinder head into the top edge of the timing chain cover. I was refitting the cover and following the tightening procedure in the Bentley workshop manual. It said to tighten the M7 bolts to 15Nm. Without checking I assumed that the bolts were M7 and set my torque wrench to 15Nm. As I started to tighten the bolts it was odd that the bolts kept turning without the wrench reaching it's clicking point. At first I thought it was just the new gasket compressing when suddenly one of the bolts gave way and went loose.

Timing chain cover bolts by Sabrebuilder, on Flickr
Timing chain cover bolts by Sabrebuilder, on Flickr

TBH I thought I'd snapped the bolt and was amazed that when I removed the bolt it came out complete albeit stretched by a few mm.
It turned out that the bolts are M6 and the correct tightening torque for M6 bolts is 9-10 Nm but I'm still surprised that these bolts would stretch to the point of fracture before only 15Nm.

Anyway, no harm done and I now have a new set of bolts from BMW.

...peter
Reply With Quote
  #293  
Old 5th December 2017, 21:38
cabrioman's Avatar
cabrioman cabrioman is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 160
cabrioman is on a distinguished road
Default

Lucky it came out in one piece Peter, could have been a pain if it hadn’t.

John
Reply With Quote
  #294  
Old 6th December 2017, 15:32
MartinClan's Avatar
MartinClan MartinClan is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,756
MartinClan is on a distinguished road
Default

As I discovered to my cost, the "core" of a threaded bolt is actually a lot less than the actual bolt size by the time you take into account how deep the thread is. As I recall, for M6, it is less than 5mm. Considering that the strength is related to the area, and that is related to the square of the radius, the thread reduces the strength considerably.

A bit of a rambling explanation but you get the gist...

Cheers, Robin
Reply With Quote
  #295  
Old 6th December 2017, 19:16
peterux's Avatar
peterux peterux is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,757
peterux is on a distinguished road
Default

John - yes, it was a very lucky escape!!

Robin - many thanks for the explanation
Reply With Quote
  #296  
Old 20th December 2017, 21:30
peterux's Avatar
peterux peterux is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,757
peterux is on a distinguished road
Default Every little helps.....

With a combination of the very cold weather and the Christmas preparations now in full swing, I've had little time to do any major work on the Sabre.

Grabbing the odd 1/2 hour here and there, I decide to dig out the Sabre's wiring loom and started to check it over and label it properly. The original builder's hand written labels on masking tape (that is now over 22 years old!) are all but unreadable. The wiring section of the build manual has the cable's colour codes so its a case of identifying which cable is which and then sticking a label on it.
I'm still a long way off installing the loom but it is a job that I can do as and when time allows. It should make the installation of the loom much faster when the time comes.

The Sabre's main loom has a number of subsections separated by large multi plugs.
I started with the dashboard subsection....

Dashboard wiring loom by Sabrebuilder, on Flickr

I have a small Brother labelling machine that works really well and is highly recommended.

Next up will be the sub-loom that goes to the back of the car for lights and fuel pump, etc.


....peter
Reply With Quote
  #297  
Old 13th January 2018, 18:55
peterux's Avatar
peterux peterux is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,757
peterux is on a distinguished road
Default

Just a few small updates...

The winter loom labelling exercise is now complete so it's all ready to go in once I reach that stage of the re-build.

Rear loom to rear lights and fuel tank all labelled up.

Rear Loom by Sabrebuilder, on Flickr

Main loom checked and labelled. Wiring for Intermittent wipers is an unexpected but useful feature!

Main Loom by Sabrebuilder, on Flickr

I seem to have collected quite a few stalk switches but Sierra parts are becoming somewhat harder to find so it's good to have a spare.

Lights and wiper stalks by Sabrebuilder, on Flickr

I've also been working outside to keep warm....
So I've built a frame on the tent trailer base. This is for transporting the Sabre's body tub.

Trailer frame by Sabrebuilder, on Flickr


......peter
Reply With Quote
  #298  
Old 16th January 2018, 21:46
peterux's Avatar
peterux peterux is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,757
peterux is on a distinguished road
Default

A quick re-cap of some engine work I did last November......


Quote:
Originally Posted by peterux View Post
Next I wanted to remove the timing chain cover to inspect the timing chain guides.

First you lock down the secondary chain tensioner. I used a small drill.

Engine strip and Inspection by Sabrebuilder, on Flickr

You can then remove the camshaft sprockets and chain.

Engine strip and Inspection by Sabrebuilder, on Flickr



So after a bit of a pause I finally got round to re-assembling my engine after the refurbishment of the VANOS unit. Before tightening the exhaust camshaft sprocket bolts you need to pretension the timing chain with a tool that replaces the primary chain tensioner.

The chain tensioning tool has to be tightened to 11 inch lbs.
So I hung a 1 pound kitchen scales weight 11 inches from the pivot.

Engine assembly by Sabrebuilder, on Flickr

I've fitted a new water pump, thermostat and thermostat cover.

Engine assembly by Sabrebuilder, on Flickr

And I've re-installed the sump.....

Engine assembly by Sabrebuilder, on Flickr

Engine assembly by Sabrebuilder, on Flickr

The sump and head cover will be painted when the weather warms up as it's currently too cold.

......peter
Reply With Quote
  #299  
Old 16th January 2018, 21:52
Patrick's Avatar
Patrick Patrick is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 2,427
Patrick is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to Patrick Send a message via MSN to Patrick Send a message via Yahoo to Patrick
Default

I like the 'torque wrench' nice work
Reply With Quote
  #300  
Old 17th January 2018, 09:15
Amir Manzoori Amir Manzoori is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Ealing London
Posts: 33
Amir Manzoori is on a distinguished road
Default

Your improvisation is second to none. Good on you Peter.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +0. The time now is 12:17.

copyright © madabout-kitcars.com 2000-2018
terms and conditions | privacy policy