Z4 Bolt -on panels

[Lucky@LeMans]

Originally Posted by smash

And also the massive difference in quality - it's immediately apparent - not just in terms of GRP but also symmetry

I'm sure if you put your car along side a 2fifty you could see the merits of both designs and the levels of fit and finish achievable from the two suppliers. I had a close look at your car on the Nubodi stand last year at Stoneliegh, I thought it was superb.

[smash]

For someone who has an obvious eye for detail (Andy's excellent bonnet deflector - great work!) I'm surprised you can't see it. If you're at Stoneleigh I'll happily walk you round my car - the body has sunk quite a bit in a year. Tributes GRP is simply not in DNA league - why do you think Geoff has had his car completely repainted already?

[zagmad]

Small fibreglass box sections might help stiffen it up without too much weight. Like they do on bonnets. And boot lids.

[Lucky@LeMans]

Originally Posted by smash

For someone who has an obvious eye for detail (Andy's excellent bonnet deflector - great work!) I'm surprised you can't see it. If you're at Stoneleigh I'll happily walk you round my car - the body has sunk quite a bit in a year. Tributes GRP is simply not in DNA league - why do you think Geoff has had his car completely repainted already?

I know where you are coming from. If I was Chris I would out source all of my GRP work. The margins might be smaller but it would take the pressure off. I would think there are lots of options open to you, it would certainly free up plenty of time to develop your other products.

[Barber]

Originally Posted by Lucky@LeMans

I know where you are coming from. If I was Chris I would out source all of my GRP work. The margins might be smaller but it would take the pressure off. I would think there are lots of options open to you, it would certainly free up plenty of time to develop your other products.

That only works if the quality and delivery times are good though.

[Jaguartvr]

I've been really happy with the quality of the 250swb and it is exactly the same car as Smash's.
The doors have been a pain but having done them a second set wouldn't be so bad.
The rest of the car is much better than I expected and considering from what the body shell started out as I think Chris did a fantastic job.
Can you imagine how hard it must be to get it even close to being symmetrical. I haven't noticed any problems with symmetry yet, it may change when it is finally painted.
Andy's build has helped me greatly, the detailed pictures and wiring diagrams especially.
Hopefully Jeff's tip on using the Reface polyester primer filler will stop any shrinkage or anything else showing through at a later date. While Andy's thread helped with the build, Jeff's has been a great help on paint and prep, always my weak point because I'm lazy and impatient so never bother to take the time to do it properly.

Working with an almost rust free car that doesn't need welding everywhere you look has been a pleasure, I've restored many old Jags and Triumphs over the years and the worst bit is always trying to weld whilst lying under a car, none of that with this project, worst so far is trying to explain to the wife how her best patio table is covered in primer and globs of GRP.

[lancelot link]

I think it's important to state the obvious here as well ...Different builders will have different expectations , different build level abilities and different budgets ...this turns it into a very complicated goal if you are aiming to please everyone , all of the time.

The DNA kit is , undoubtably , quality ...it will get you a higher spec car with a higher value ..but at a higher price . Not everybody is in a position to do that .

Home builders on limited budgets are happy to swap pounds for hours and get stuck in to achieve the car of their dreams with a build cost they can afford . These builders will accept any fixes and tweaks that need sorting ...

Other builders will do some of the build for themselves and pay for other aspects ...it's horses for courses really ...

I can only speculate , but I think Smash's issues are that he wanted a high end car , was promised a high end car at a price that should have returned one and there were problems relating to that expectation being delivered ...I'm not wanting to rake up old ground or get into a repeat debate about all of that , its well documented and impossible for an outsider to comment on whether it was a short change issue or an over expectation issue or a mixture of both ...

The Tribute kit is undeniably very popular , some lovely examples are being built , outsourcing the GRP has a whole load of separate issues that it can bring to the table ........

It's very easy to look through the window and say ..''I'd do it this way , you should do this , or that or the other ...why aren't you developing new stuff ? , why are you developing new stuff , when you should improve your kit ?..why improve it when its selling ?, why are you developing and improving when you are behind on getting orders processed ? ..can you just do this ? , If you just did that , you'd sell hundreds , why not totally change the whole shape , should be easy enough !! ... etc etc etc... ''

If you go into Tesco's to buy some apples and they aren't to your liking , Tesco's wont change them for you ...they sell whats on offer , if you don't like the quality , you go to M & S ...If you don't like the price , you go to Lidl's ... Everybody ends up with apples at the end of the day .....and thats important here ..people who cannot ever contemplate owning these types of cars , are given a chance to enter the game ...

The realities of being involved in the replica kit car industry are quite stressful , very unglamourous , often not particularly rewarding and I think Tribute have found a niche market that is working very well at the moment .....

[Jaguartvr]

[retro200]

funny stuff f/glass it can take a long time to properly "cure" a motor engineer mate of mine bought an un-finished unique autocraft 5.7 chevy powered cobra kit back in the mid 90s managed to get it roadworthy and correctly registered just before the introduction of the sva test, body was then prepared and painted in the late 90s finished dark metallic blue , for years afterwards the body would move all over the place (even more on a hot day) sometimes closing door/boot gaps up causing them to stick, (the body shell is a good thickness all over not a cheap thin job) what he did was to leave it, as it was, to settle down so jump forward to 2016 yup thats 16+years later he has just re-vamped the whole car engine upgrade etc inc sorting the body out now its stopped moving (hopefully) its the red and white one featured in december 2016 kit car mag i think you will always get some movement with f/glass bodys whoever makes it, more so with large mouldings like combined bonnet/wing sections or rear clam/ roof sections and then there,s the issue of colour dark colours absorb heat (strong sunlight) so that will cause problems , whereas my tribute mrs200 finished in diamond white stays cool in strong sunlight and 18 months since it was painted there is no visible settling or movement ............ yet !!!

[Mister Towed]

Originally Posted by retro200

...and then there,s the issue of colour dark colours absorb heat (strong sunlight) so that will cause problems , whereas my tribute mrs200 finished in diamond white stays cool in strong sunlight and 18 months since it was painted there is no visible settling or movement ............ yet !!!

I can echo that - no shrinkage or expansion on my silver Spyder in four years on the road. And it's an infamously thin and cheap bodyshell.

[Lucky@LeMans]

Originally Posted by Barber

That only works if the quality and delivery times are good though.

Quality and lead times can be nailed down, there are no excuses. Ordered in small batches the price can be kept under control too.

[Mitchelkitman]

Originally Posted by Lucky@LeMans

Quality and lead times can be nailed down, there are no excuses. Ordered in small batches the price can be kept under control too.

But can they? If you're subbing the work out what control do you have over the quality - if the work goes 'wobbly' 2 years down the line where do you stand? If the supplier doesn't supply in the timescale what do you do? Oh, of course, just change supplier!
What seems simple may not be so - At least if you're laminating the bodies yourself you cut down on the 'blame' train (resin suppliers not withstanding).

[molleur]

Now contemplating using a Tribute 250swb kit as a base for fabricating a bespoke chassis. Lot of work, but not pestered with IVA here. Florida registrations are quite simple.
The only thing scaring me at the moment is making all of the inner panels, door boxes, etc. Perhaps use some Z-3 doors, etc. Them I would have a great choice of engine, etc. Fabricating a chassis is no real challenge once the drive-line and suspension are sorted as to donor.

Today the April issue of Kit Car arrived at my local bookstore (Mirage 250 on cover).
For a couple hundred $$, there are 3D CAD files of the250SWB available from which station molds could be developed, but I've done this before and wish to get a good head start with some off the shelf or easily sourced components. Real or repro 250SWB windscreens are way too costly. Thinking Datsun/Nissan Z car as possible.

[Jaguartvr]

I wonder if Chris kept the moulds he took from the original buck? Might be a better starting point if you are making a scratch chassis.

[Mitchelkitman]

Originally Posted by Jaguartvr

I wonder if Chris kept the moulds he took from the original buck? Might be a better starting point if you are making a scratch chassis.

Gotta get them to Florida though!

[Jaguartvr]

No harder than a 250 kit, just a different set of panels

[molleur]

Originally Posted by Mitchelkitman

Gotta get them to Florida though!

Much easier (and less dear) to do the 3D templates in plywood. Unless, of course, Chris would pull a set of parts from the original molds if he still has them.

[Barber]

Originally Posted by Lucky@LeMans

Quality and lead times can be nailed down, there are no excuses. Ordered in small batches the price can be kept under control too.

I'm no expert in the glass fibre supply chain, but in just about every other business, at this end of the price scale, getting good, consistent quality and short lead times from a 3rd party supplier won't be easy. Otherwise, companies like DNA and others wouldn't be able to charge such a high premium.

But as stated, I'm guessing on this one.

[smash]

Out of curiosity, how long should a body be left in the mould to cure?

[molleur]

Originally Posted by smash

Out of curiosity, how long should a body be left in the mould to cure?

It really depends upon ambient temperature and the rapidity of laminate exotherm when laminating. I've seen a fast layup of many multiple layers reach
170 degrees C on a boat laminate. Much more shrinkage and much more time to
completely cure after it cools down. And yes, it's dangerous and will cause mold warping, fire hazard, etc. In this case, it was hosed down with water and both the mold and part were destroyed. Common exotherm for 4-5 layer activated polyester resins
should be: A "rule of thumb" is not more than 80 degrees C for any layup. After the first layer, subsequent layers should be done within 12-18 hours after sanding the initial layer and wiping down with acetone.
Basically, three days in the mold for a car body laminate (of about 1/4 inch total) should be sufficient to handle without creating distortion in the part.
Small parts (door skins, etc. doesn't matter too much, but at least one day.)

In Florida, we can leave the parts in the sun for a couple of days to effect a good post cure.