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| Marlin Sportster, Cabrio, Berlinetta and Roadster builds Enthused or Confused about your vintage Marlin build? Ask away here or show off your build. |
18th November 2009, 20:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick
Stock ECU with the security disabled seems to be a popular option.
That leaves a rolling road session to tune it by a pro which would cost in the region of £500-£600 if done properly.
Depends if you want to fiddle with the management yourself I guess  |
Patrick
Do you have contacts who know how to disarm the security on the standard ECU? This sounds like much the better option, as you then get BMW''s own system which is reliable ion the production car.
Tim Brierley (Timbo) would welcome some help in this area as he is struggling with his electrics at the moment. I have been told by a BMW electrician that it can be done, has anyone done it?
Tim
Did you try Nick at EVO? - any luck?
Mike
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22nd November 2009, 08:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick
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I've not found anyone who offers this as a service. The E36 system is less complex and secure as the E46 and there are companies offering chips but they all seem to require the complete EWS and key security still to be in place. If you have ALL the constituant parts wired together you can re-synchronise the EWS/Key/EMS so I presume this is what a compny like Superchips would do in a car application. I think any race cars must be using aftermarket sustems like DTA Fast. DTA's application manual and wiring diagrams cover the M50, M52 and M54 engines with single or dual vanos control. The downside is that the set up manual is 71 pages long and you'd need a couple of rolling road sessions with an experienced mapper to set it up properly so the cost a major consideration.
The upside is it is completely tunable in every aspect, has a shift light, tacho, etc outputs and can even be fitted with Traction control and Launch control  . Not sure i'd be using the 'Pit Lane speed control' except maybe through 50mph speed traps on motorway roadworks??
I wonder what Marlin used in their M3 based demo car?? Maybe the owner of that car now watches this forum and could comment?? Anybody seen it lately?
...peter
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9th December 2009, 19:29
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I picked up on this interesting discussion on another forum about BMW EWS systems. The discussion was about dissabling BMW e46 immobilisers for race applications. A couple of posters recomended binning the BMW ECU (or DME as BMW like to call it) like I was considering until I worked out the budget costs.
Then someone posted this.....
"I was told that in newer EWS-Systems (EWS3 and newer) it´s not enough to connect the EWS-wire but also establish a working bus connection. Without this CAN-K-BUS connection the system is working for several times but then the car is not starting anymore, because of the missing connection via CAN-K-BUS.
It has something to do with the rolling table in both ECUs. It´s not for sure, I only heard it from a guy who´s very familiar with BMW-ECMs."
Another member posted this reply.....
"I agree. Here's my explanation of the main drawbacks.
The EWS-III transmits a 64-bit rolling code to the ECU via a dedicated wire. The ECU uses the CAN bus to transmit the "TD" signal (engine speed signal) to the instrument cluster, which serves as a gateway for the K-Bus. The cluster then relays the "TD" signal to the EWS-III via the K-Bus.
The EWS-III needs the "TD" signal for two purposes:
1. To prevent engagement of the starter motor when the engine RPM exceeds a given value.
2. To help ensure that the ECU and the EWS update their rolling-code tables simultaneously.
The EWS-III waits until the "TD" signal indicates zero RPM before it changes its rolling code in preparation for the next start. At the same time, the ECU calculates the next code from its copy of the rolling code table. If the "TD" signal is missing, the ECU and the EWS-III are likely to lose synchronisation very quickly."
So that could explain Tim's problems of ECU's dying after a certain number of starts??
Then a third member chimed in....
"If you want to establish a working CAN/K-line connection you´ll need the ZGM (Zentral Gateway Modul). This module is included in the cluster, so you can "dismember" the cluster and pick out the components."
Which I presume means you don't have to hide a whole Instrument cluster inside the Sportster somewhere, but just the relevant module that handles the CAN bus and 'TD' signal.
So now I have a shopping list....
I need a matching set of Key, Induction loop, EWS, DME and the gubbins from an instrument cluster.........will it work and stay working??
I've got all the wiring diagrams and i'm figuring out which wires are required.
Tim,
did you ever get the instrument cluster you bought wired in?
If the information above is correct it may be only a matter of time before you loose your rolling codes again.
...peter
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10th December 2009, 07:10
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Wow, well done on finding this info, Peter, this would explain a lot!
I did wire in an instrument cluster but the BMW dealership computer still wouldn't talk to the immobiliser. However, I had only wired up the cluster's power, earth and diagnostic plug connections (presumably not enough). And I have since disconnected it.
Presumably there is a wire (or two?) that needs to be connected from the ECU to the cluster. Back to the wiring diagrams ....
Will have a look next week at possibly dismantling the instrument cluster as, as you say, there's not a lot of room for the whole thing! Will report any progress. In the meantime, I don't think I'll start it up too often!
Cheers
Tim
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10th December 2009, 20:28
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Hi Peter
Well I reckon the following wires from the instrument cluster need to be wired up:
Pin 1: BR/SW to Earth
Pin 4: RT/GE/WS to permanent live
Pin 5: GN/BL and Pin 6: VI/GE I doubled up to an ignition live
Pin 14: WS/RT/GE to the EWS
Pin 17: WS/GN to DME Mod 4 pin 21
Pin 3: SW/GN to DME Mod 4 pin 2
Pin 13: BR/GN to DME Mod 4 pin 11
I originally connected Pin 18: WS/GN to the diagnostic plug pin 7 but I think the BMW guy told me this was wrong and I think I changed it to pin 7: GR/RT but I can't exactly remember so will have to check on Monday (only have access to car on Mondays and Tuesdays these days).
Your Bentley manual might be able to tell us if we need all three pins connecting to the DME. I suspect not but my diagrams don't give enough detail to work out exactly which one gives the 'TD' signal.
Does this concur with your findings??
I get the feeling that we are making progress ....
Cheers
Tim
PS The costs I had were: Matching EWS, DME and key from Ebay, 150 quid the first time and 180 quid the second time. The instrument cluster cost me 68 quid including postage. And 20 quid for a diagnostic plug off a breaker I couldn't be bothered to haggle with.
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10th December 2009, 20:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timbo
Hi Peter
Well I reckon the following wires from the instrument cluster need to be wired up:
Pin 1: BR/SW to Earth
Pin 4: RT/GE/WS to permanent live
Pin 5: GN/BL and Pin 6: VI/GE I doubled up to an ignition live
Pin 14: WS/RT/GE to the EWS
Pin 17: WS/GN to DME Mod 4 pin 21
Pin 3: SW/GN to DME Mod 4 pin 2
Pin 13: BR/GN to DME Mod 4 pin 11
I originally connected Pin 18: WS/GN to the diagnostic plug pin 7 but I think the BMW guy told me this was wrong and I think I changed it to pin 7: GR/RT but I can't exactly remember so will have to check on Monday (only have access to car on Mondays and Tuesdays these days).
Your Bentley manual might be able to tell us if we need all three pins connecting to the DME. I suspect not but my diagrams don't give enough detail to work out exactly which one gives the 'TD' signal.
Does this concur with your findings??
I get the feeling that we are making progress ....
Cheers
Tim
PS The costs I had were: Matching EWS, DME and key from Ebay, 150 quid the first time and 180 quid the second time. The instrument cluster cost me 68 quid including postage. And 20 quid for a diagnostic plug off a breaker I couldn't be bothered to haggle with.
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Hi tim,
i'll check through your list at the weekend, when i'm not so tired.
You might also need the CAN bus connections which are pins 9 and 10 on the cluster which go to Pins 36 and 37 on DME Mod 4.
Something I've started to think about is, how are we going to test that it is working? I guess seeing the rev counter work would be some confidence. Any other ideas?
I've got a key, EWS and DME but they need aligning so might try those guys in Canada? I've got my eyes on an Instrument cluster on ebay but still haven't been able to find a daignostic plug from an e46. I'll also need to get some connectors and leads for the instrument cluster.
regards
Peter
I've just re-read the bits I posted above.
He says......
"The ECU uses the CAN bus to transmit the "TD" signal (engine speed signal) to the instrument cluster, which serves as a gateway for the K-Bus. The cluster then relays the "TD" signal to the EWS-III via the K-Bus. "
So you do need the CAN bus connections from the DME to the Instrument cluster and the K-BUS is the Pin14 WS/RT/GE wire that goes to the EWS.
Last edited by peterux; 10th December 2009 at 20:55..
Reason: additional comment added
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11th December 2009, 10:06
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I sourced the cluster from LK Spares 01279 417755 and he was good enough to chuck in the connectors and a few inches of wire, if that helps.
Tim
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12th December 2009, 10:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timbo
I sourced the cluster from LK Spares 01279 417755 and he was good enough to chuck in the connectors and a few inches of wire, if that helps.
Tim
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Thanks, but i guess the e46 they are currently breaking doesn't have any clocks or bits of loom  |
14th December 2009, 21:08
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Hi Peter
Well today I connected all the wires as suggested above, including the CAN bus ones. My wiring jungle, which was pretty horrific before, is now looking a lot worse, but ... everything seemed to work OK, and yes, as you predicted, the rev counter on the instrument cluster worked!
I've decided not to mess around trying to dismantle the cluster, but since I haven't got a glove box, there is room for it behind the dash on the LHS, so have made up a suitable bracket for it and will mount it there for the time being.
Presumably when I drive in the dark I will be able to see its warning lights glowing!!!!
I guess the only way to see if it has really solved the problem is to keep starting it?! I must be getting close to 50 starts since the last replacement...
Will obviously keep you posted but I feel more confident about starting it now, so thank you.
Tim
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15th December 2009, 21:59
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Hi Tim,
I'm glad you got it wired and and working. Hopefully its doing it stuff properly and your EWS continues to roll-over!
Any chance of a picture of the Instrument cluster connector? I'm trying to get one, but of course the guys at the breakers haven't a clue what it looks like. 
thanks
Peter |
16th December 2009, 08:30
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There's actually 2 connectors, although I think the second one is redundant for our purposes. Will take a pic for you but won't be til next Mon now, sorry.
Had a terrible accident yesterday. My bumper mods fell off. Oh no
Cheers
Tim |
30th December 2009, 15:02
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Have I bought a dud?
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterux
I can't believe it is a whole year since I bought this engine and i'm afraid it is still languishing in the back of my lockup garage.
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Having satisfied myself that with the help of Tim's trials I can crack the engine management, I decided it was time to strip down the engine and start to clean things up. What better time than in the freezing rain at the front of my un-heated lock-up garage at Christmas!!
I've already stripped all the engine loom off so today I started by taking the coil packs off (six individual coils on these engines) and then the spark plugs out. They looked in reasonable condition and all the same meduim brown colour. So far so good....
Then I decided to take the camshaft cover off the have a look at the twin camshafts and chain drives. Then instead of nice shinny metal, covered in nice oil, I found this horrible brown stuff that looks like toffee or maybe fudge. It's like the oil has solidified into a brown sludge that is not oily at all?? The stuff is quite a dark brown colour and crumbles when poked with a screwdriver. I've not seen anything like this before and wonder if it is because the engine has stood in a cold garage for over a year and the previous owner had it a few weeks outside under a tarpauline.
But I'm worried the engine was knackered before I bought it?
Will all the oil ways be clogged with this stuff?
Is this solidified sludge oil/water mix?
Has anyone come across this before? Do modern oils actually solidify if left in contact with damp cold air.
Any ideas on my next step or other checks I should do? I don't really want to spend my time fitting the engine only to find its a dud and a complete strip down of the engine wasn't in the plan!
Not a good start..... 
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30th December 2009, 15:11
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Not sure to be honest but the M54 in my daily gets cruddy gungy brown stuff on the oil fill cap similar to what you describe. I don't have any problems with it.
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31st December 2009, 18:09
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Example pictures of my gunge.....
It seems it's not that uncommon on modern engines..
http://www.schleeter.com/oil-sludge.htm |
31st December 2009, 21:24
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Euwe that horrible, give it a good clean out I guess |
1st January 2010, 12:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterux
...toffee or maybe fudge.
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Ummmmm..... Fudge.... [Drool]
That'll give you something to do whilst the hangover clears. 
Happy New Year everyone! |
2nd January 2010, 19:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick
Euwe that horrible, give it a good clean out I guess |
Anyone with any bright ideas on what to use to clean this stuff out?
Petrol seems to dissolve it very, very slowly and after half an hour I got bored and hadn't made much progress. I then went out and bought some Paint Spray Gun Cleaner from my local car factor, which attacked it a bit faster but is leathal to use and evaporates so fast it just moves the sediment around making a horrible mess. (Gun Cleaner is like nail varnish remover on steroids!). I've only used it on the rocker cover, so far, and i'm not sure this would be any good for the engine.
I'm wondering if Paraffin, diesel fuel or maybe one of those engine flush additives would work better?
Anyone got any recommendations? |
2nd January 2010, 20:23
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How about some citric based stuff, i had some when I rebuilt the M20 but I can't remember what it was called. Something like agent orange. Did a good job on the oil.
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