Wing Stay Mount - Page 2

peterux · #21 2nd June 2009, 22:17

I've had a go at my wing stay brackets.........

I've binned the half moon pressed metal saddles as i think they are too soft and deform.
I've replaced them with a 6mm thick mild steel plate.
I've used better quality 3/8" diameter exhaust clamp 'u' bolts and locktight
I've used two 'u' bolts on the basis that if one comes losse the other might hang on (per Robin's suggestion). It also means there is significantly more surface area clamped to the upright. The 6mm plate deforms very slightly under full torque on the bolts which I detected as the gap between the wing stay and the wheel rim changes by a few millimetre as you tighten the 'u'bolts.
I've separated the fixing to the wing stays so that any movement here isn't transmitted to the 'u' bolts.
I've used 10mm fixing bolts which gives more head surface area than the 8mm original mounting.

I need to clean up and re-painted everything now...and nowhere near as elegant as Stuart's solution.

GreatOldOne · #22 4th June 2009, 18:25

I measured my uprights tonight - they are 51mm like Robin's - So that's another order then.

MartinClan · #23 9th June 2009, 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterux

I've had a go at my wing stay brackets.........

I've binned the half moon pressed metal saddles as i think they are too soft and deform.
I've replaced them with a 6mm thick mild steel plate.
I've used better quality 3/8" diameter exhaust clamp 'u' bolts and locktight
I've used two 'u' bolts on the basis that if one comes losse the other might hang on (per Robin's suggestion). It also means there is significantly more surface area clamped to the upright. The 6mm plate deforms very slightly under full torque on the bolts which I detected as the gap between the wing stay and the wheel rim changes by a few millimetre as you tighten the 'u'bolts.
I've separated the fixing to the wing stays so that any movement here isn't transmitted to the 'u' bolts.
I've used 10mm fixing bolts which gives more head surface area than the 8mm original mounting.

Did your new brackets past the "test" Sunday?

Robin

peterux · #24 9th June 2009, 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinClan

Did your new brackets past the "test" Sunday?

Robin

Yup, no issues at all. First time i've done that kind of distance without any issues so, so far very good.
The journey down to Brighton was mostly B and C roads and I did the last part of the journey back on the M25 so they had a throughly good vibration test. Just need a coat of paint.

regards

Peter

MartinClan · #25 9th June 2009, 16:24

That's good news! I think I will try this method first as it doesn't involve any welding. Can you tell me where you obtained the beefier U-bolts from?

Cheers

Robin

peterux · #26 9th June 2009, 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinClan

That's good news! I think I will try this method first as it doesn't involve any welding. Can you tell me where you obtained the beefier U-bolts from?

Cheers

Robin

Hi Robin,

it was ebay again. Check out this guys listings......

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Super-Heavy-Du...3A3%7C294%3A30

I bought 45 mm clamps which were actually a bit larger than 45 mm so I had to squeeze them down a bit to fit my 320 uprights. He's currently listing 48mm and 51mm clamps. Not sure which would be best for your uprights? They are made in Canada and come with nuts which I suspect are UNC rather than metric so i just used the nuts that came with the u bolts. They seem very strong but are not plated so need painting.
The bolts holding the Marlin bit to the plate are 10mm metric. You have to drill out the wing stays out to 10mm holes.

I also got the 6mm plates cut to size of an ebay supplier but they were really badly cut and not even square! I used 6mm steel so that it didn't bend too much when I tightened it all up.

You'll find the wing mounting points become nearer the centre of the car which means there is more clearance between the wing stays and the inner alloy wheel rim.

...peter

MartinClan · #27 12th June 2009, 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterux

it was ebay again. Check out this guys listings......

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Super-Heavy-Du...3A3%7C294%3A30

I bought 45 mm clamps which were actually a bit larger than 45 mm so I had to squeeze them down a bit to fit my 320 uprights. ...peter

I just bought some. They certainly look more up to the job than the woosy ones I bought from my local motor factor. Mind you - it seems like American mm are different to ours (isn't everything bigger over there) as the 51mm clamps measure up at about 55mm. Perhpas I should have bought the 48mm ones.

Anyway - I am going to try a similar setup to yours. I drove the car to work this morning and before I set off I gave it the now obligatory check of the front wings. On one of the clamps the saddle had spread alarmingly - luckily I now carry a spare....

Robin

GreatOldOne · #28 12th June 2009, 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinClan

I drove the car to work this morning

I dream of doing this. Someday.... Someday.

MartinClan · #29 13th June 2009, 20:53

I made a similar (but simpler) mod to Peter today - albeit without the heavy duty u-bolts. First drive (to the pub) and it seems to have made a big difference. Although the wings still bounce up and down it has reduced considerably and - always a bonus - there was no sign of them coming loose! Only time will tell if it stays that way.

As the mode disposes of the 'orrible pressed metal saddles that come with the u-bolts there is the added bonus of more clearance between the wing stays and the wheels. The only downside is that I will have to adjust the wings as they are no longer central over the wheels.

I'll try and remember to post a picture tomorrow.

Robin

MartinClan · #30 14th June 2009, 16:32

Picture

peterux · #31 14th June 2009, 20:39

That's a clever variation on the theme, I like it's simplicity.

MartinClan · #32 15th June 2009, 07:54

What surprised me was how much difference it made to the "bouncing" problem. It shows how much the single clamp solution allowed the wing stay to move relative to the strut. It's no wonder that they kept on coming loose.

Robin

GreatOldOne · #33 16th June 2009, 19:13

Ok - here's my interpretation (read: shameless copy

) of the double clamp wingstay:

It's a three way hybrid - it's a cross between Peter's (wide spaced U-Bolts), Robin's (stay mounted to top U-Bolt) and Stuart's (cap heads for 'belt-n-braces' prevention of rotation)

It's not particuarly tightly bolted together at the moment as it needs painting, but it seems very sturdy all ready. Time will tell, I guess.

Patrick · #34 16th June 2009, 19:17

looks good, I'll have to get my arse in gear and make another copy, less wobble would be nice as I still get it on my lightweight wings

Chris Cussen · #35 17th June 2009, 07:17

Not that I've got a Sportster but I was contacted by an owner who lives locally when he spotted my name on MOC Pitstop mag and he came around on Sunday. Since there has been a lot of activity on this thread I took a look at his front wing mountings and he has used 2 clamps on a plate very much like GOO's piccies above. It seems to work OK.

His car went through SVA last Feb, and there were quite a large number of items I spotted that would fail IVA, seat back height, tethered filler cap, some radius issues, contactable surfaces in the passenger footwell....

MartinClan · #36 17th June 2009, 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreatOldOne

Ok - here's my interpretation (read: shameless copy

) of the double clamp wingstay:

It's a three way hybrid - it's a cross between Peter's (wide spaced U-Bolts), Robin's (stay mounted to top U-Bolt) and Stuart's (cap heads for 'belt-n-braces' prevention of rotation)

It's not particuarly tightly bolted together at the moment as it needs painting, but it seems very sturdy all ready. Time will tell, I guess.

I would suggest that you put a second set of nuts behind the plate on the top U bolt. Tighten these against the plate after you have tightened the front set. That way the plate on the wing stay is firmly clamped to the plate you have made and it doesn't rely on the long part of the U bolt that goes arround the strut. If you don't do this, when the U bolts stretch a bit (as they will - normally made of monkey metal) the wing stay plate will no longer be fixed firmly.

Robin

GreatOldOne · #37 17th June 2009, 07:56

Will do.

Monkey Metal... I like that.

peterux · #38 6th February 2010, 16:49

More folks having trouble with Sportster wing stays.........

http://www.marlinownersclub.com/foru...ad=14349&cat=3

I bet he's miffed if he's crushed his sidelight which are not normally cheap items.

...peter

GreatOldOne · #39 23rd April 2011, 11:02

We've been discussing putting a third stay on the cycle wings in various threads, but I thought I'd share some observations in this thread, as it's the main one for the topic.

I've just been out and had a noodle around Vikki's front wings & suspension, and I'm coming to the conclusion that it's going to be very difficult to add a third stay. to have the most benefit, it'd have to come from the centre of the mountings we already have, and it's pretty busy down there already.

If you can get something in there, it's going to have to be bent like a pretzle - it needs to fix to the upright, come out far enough to clear the top wishbone at both extents of lock, and then back out to clear the side wall of the tyre and then attach to the wing.

I'm guessing that this would make the third stay yet another spring, allowing to wing to flex around the two main struts as it already does - which sort if defeats the object.

The only other idea that I've had to solve this is to mount something to the ball joint taper on the top of the top wishbone - something with a bearing to allow it to turn with the steering - but it would need a longer ball joint taper to allow a nylock to secure the suspension, then the bearing / bush for the stay and than another nut. It can't go directly under the first nyloc as there's not enough room due to the two bars standing proud of the mounting eye.

What do you chaps think? Is it too much trouble? Do we just live with it as it is at the moment, or do another redesign?

GreatOldOne · #40 23rd April 2011, 12:21

More thunking:

The top of the joint taper isn't going to work. It will move in an arc the same as the top wishbone, but the upright, wheel and wing will move parallel to the ground - so any stay will pull or push the wing depending on the deflection of the suspension. Which isn't a good idea.

Not easy this, is it. :/