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Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Marlin 5exi builds

Marlin 5exi builds Calling all you sexi builders....sorry 5exi builders, show us your progress.

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  #1  
Old 13th February 2007, 15:47
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Default Honda ECU & Hondata option

Hi all,

I've just finished wiring in my OEM ECU, dash, and assorted gubbins. I was pretty pleased when I turned the key, and the fuel pump primed..... until I looked at the dash and realised the immobiliser light was flashing.

Having gone through the Honda service engineers manual, to check the correct wiring of the immobiliser, and that it's giving the correct outputs, I've come to the conclusion that there's a problem with the coding.

I suspect trying to get help from a Honda dealer would be hard work, and potentially expensive and fruitless.... so it's Hondata time for me (I'd rather spend out on a Hondata mod, than Marlin's solution, as I'd like to have FI capability).

So in conclusion my ECU is off to Abbey Motorsport... it should be back with me in about a week, at which point I'll try starting the engine properly... and hopefully I'll have a decent video of the engine running.

At the moment, the only vid I've got is this:

http://www.johndry.com/MVI_0546.AVI

Cheers,

John.
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  #2  
Old 14th February 2007, 10:19
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Hi John.

Doing well mate. When that engine fires, you will have a big grin and well deserved.

Them dials look great. But will they fit in the dash? Or has Marlin changed the dash to fit the honda dials instead of the Rover ones?
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  #3  
Old 14th February 2007, 17:06
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K Pro the only way to go
Nice to here your engine trying to start
I am still farting about with me bodywork GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!! too cold lol
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Old 14th February 2007, 18:30
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id b very interested to see if it works better thn marlin's box of trix, i was going to go down the same route but lack of time and money ment marlins box is cheaer for the time being. will end up using hondata gear if we tune it but not to sure if are goin to yet. (& if the chassis will take the power)
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Old 14th February 2007, 19:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limpabit View Post
Hi John.

Doing well mate. When that engine fires, you will have a big grin and well deserved.

Them dials look great. But will they fit in the dash? Or has Marlin changed the dash to fit the honda dials instead of the Rover ones?
Cheers for the words of encouragement - it's always a bit of a nervous time trying to start a 2nd hand engine for the first time, hoping that one hasn't bought an oversized paperweight. I took a bit of gamble with my engine, buying with no warranty (for all they're worth...), but it was pleasing to see it turns over freely.

It'll be interesting to see how your bodywork turns out, as I'm also going for black... in fact my car is going to be a bit of a black hole (black leather seats and dash...).

As for the Honda dials fitting, if (and that's still not proven) I can get them to function acceptably, then I'll chop the Marlin dash about to make them fit - there's not a massive difference, and having a friend who is a boat fitter and a dab hand with fibre glass should mean it won't prove too taxing to modify the dash..... I hope!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG_Fella View Post
K Pro the only way to go
Nice to here your engine trying to start
I am still farting about with me bodywork GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!! too cold lol
The tinkerer inside me was tempted by the hondata just for interest, so when I discovered my money saving route of using the oem parts wasn't going to happen, I had the ECU off to Abbeymotorsport damn sharpish!

Jerry - there's no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing! Get out there and finish your car - I want another road legal 5EXI-R to do battle with at the odd trackday!!!

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Originally Posted by Jon@JNRacing.co.uk View Post
id b very interested to see if it works better thn marlin's box of trix, i was going to go down the same route but lack of time and money ment marlins box is cheaer for the time being. will end up using hondata gear if we tune it but not to sure if are goin to yet. (& if the chassis will take the power)
I think the power question will be answered by John's (marlinturbo) tuned T-series car. If his proves it can handle 300bhp, or if it doesn't initially and then he cooks up some ways of bracing the chassis to handle the power, then I think a supercharged k20a2 will be extremely tempting.

Once my car is road legal (still an enormous distance away), that is when the fun starts - my view is the klt as supplied is simply a baseline from which I can start my own R&D, and start developing some understanding of chassis dynamics.
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Old 15th February 2007, 14:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alackofspeed View Post
Cheers for the words of encouragement - it's always a bit of a nervous time trying to start a 2nd hand engine for the first time, hoping that one hasn't bought an oversized paperweight. I took a bit of gamble with my engine, buying with no warranty (for all they're worth...), but it was pleasing to see it turns over freely.

It'll be interesting to see how your bodywork turns out, as I'm also going for black... in fact my car is going to be a bit of a black hole (black leather seats and dash...).
I know what you mean about an unknown engine. I had a new Rover training engine and never new what the Rover trainees had been up to. A couple of oil seals put in the wrong way round and a couple of bits missing was all that was wrong.

When the car is ready, I'll post a couple of pictures. I'm going for a black/little red theme.
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Old 15th February 2007, 16:01
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yeh would be nice to see if it can take the power, we have a similar engine bay but is a little different in places etc. if we get on ok with the car and enjoy it, we are looking into seriuosly tuning the engine. fitting stroker kits, boring, supercharging, custom cams, plumbed nitros, will be gettin 375-425bhp at the crank so some calculations need to be worked out. may see it in the future but then again may not.

Jon
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Old 15th February 2007, 18:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon@JNRacing.co.uk View Post
yeh would be nice to see if it can take the power, we have a similar engine bay but is a little different in places etc. if we get on ok with the car and enjoy it, we are looking into seriuosly tuning the engine. fitting stroker kits, boring, supercharging, custom cams, plumbed nitros, will be gettin 375-425bhp at the crank so some calculations need to be worked out. may see it in the future but then again may not.

Jon
I don't think you'd need such and range of additions; I know someone with a turbo-charged B-series: 540bhp, which wasn't especially hard to achieve, with some shopping in the 'states.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2/B20EM1/Dynomap.jpg
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Old 15th February 2007, 18:19
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yeh turbo's are ok but the problem is that they have to be fitted into the exhuast system and you need to have a massive intercooler for a huge turbo, the only problem with getting that sort of power output is, that the engine normally doesn't last that long and with turbo's you have seals which i have had bad experiences with, i prefer superchargers, as you gain more torque, and a built in flame kit, they also work better in a small space like the exi.
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Old 18th February 2007, 19:51
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John, excellent progress mate can't wait to hear it when you get the kpro hooked up!
I have been awaiting a new broadband contract so it was good to read/hear when I got back online

Craig
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Old 19th February 2007, 23:21
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John, how easy are the Honda clocks to wire it, is it pretty straight forward or is there a lot of messing about to get all the correct wires in the right place. I'd really like to fit the type r clocks as they look better and are calibrated on 17" wheels.

Cheers Jon
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Old 20th February 2007, 17:52
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Hard to say. It's certainly theoretically easy (until i see mine working I'll reserved judgement!) to get the rpm, speedo, backlight bulbs, and most warning lights working. I can't see why the fuel gauge would be hard as that's just connected to a variable resistor + float on the type-r, though what the calibration is I do not know.

There is however a multiplex feed to the clocks, which so far as I can tell although it carries an array of information, nothing is of any use to any of us, except the coolant temp signal. The coolant temp signal originates at the ECU - perhaps it'll work without the multiplex unit (there is continuity from clocks to ecu in the OEM isntallation).

As for speedo calibration, it's calibrated to a wheel and tyre size combination, so the fact the type-r runs 17" wheels is not really relevent.
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Old 20th February 2007, 18:07
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I think ill wait and see for a bit, not as if i haven't got anythin else to do, jsut finish the car would be good. I was thinking of going to a full digital dash anyway, so might just jump straight there, maybe easyer. The fact with the type r as it is because of what wheels we are running we would have to get it re-calibrated anyway,i was talkin to my old school mate about it who works in the local Honda dealership, its easy enough to do just need the computer to do it with. Be interested to see your running, when are you hoping to have it on the road by?,
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Old 8th March 2007, 00:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon@JNRacing.co.uk View Post
yeh turbo's are ok but the problem is that they have to be fitted into the exhuast system and you need to have a massive intercooler for a huge turbo, the only problem with getting that sort of power output is, that the engine normally doesn't last that long and with turbo's you have seals which i have had bad experiences with, i prefer superchargers, as you gain more torque, and a built in flame kit, they also work better in a small space like the exi.
Can't agree with that.
Superchargers have seals as well, and some need rebulding very frequently.
You also have parasitic losses not associated with turbos at all.
I'd also like to challenge the torque statement...
John (Marlin Turbo)'s 5EXi made 270+lbft at 1 bar boost with a rubbish exhaust (now rectified) and I would expect to see over 300lbft now.
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Old 8th March 2007, 09:39
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If you buy a good quality supercharger than they are ok, depends on how much you like to spend. If John has around 300lbft of torque id like to know what tyres hes running on, as if its the standard 195's they would be smoking in most gears, my old mans V8 Sportster has 250lbft running on 205 and they smoke in 3rd.

All I can now say is that my question has been answered, the exi chassis will not take the power i want to run through it!
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Old 10th March 2007, 20:34
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Nothing is ever quite as simple as it perhaps should be!

My ECU appeared on Friday, so I plugged it in, expecting big things... well a running engine at least.

Turned out to be a bit of a damp squid, as I can't upload a map to my ECU!!

It a shame at times, that things often aren't quite as straightforward as they ought to be.

http://hondata.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=21089#21089

Cheers,

John.
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Old 10th March 2007, 20:48
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John, won't let me at the mo connect to the link but did your ecu not come with a base map, whwen I phoned about mine they told me that it is supplied with a standard type r map
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Old 10th March 2007, 20:52
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John, won't let me at the mo connect to the link but did your ecu not come with a base map, whwen I phoned about mine they told me that it is supplied with a standard type r map
All the maps are with the software - I need to upload a map, and disable the immobiliser. The ECU comes from Hondata to the UK agent totally blank.

Try this link - essentially the same info.

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=25209
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Old 10th March 2007, 20:57
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Oh right, did not know this info I thought when cpl told me that the ecu would be sent to me with immobiliser dissabled and a base type r map installed that this was normal!

Literally told me after he asked what car it was going into that he would send it plug and play
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Old 10th March 2007, 21:04
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Abbey would have done the same, I just didn't see the point at the time, as the whole idea of getting the K-pro rather than the k100, was to be able to meddle at free will.

In retrospect I might have been better getting Abbey to upload a map and dissable the immobiliser......... that said having tried to upload to the ecu using 2 computers and 2 different leads, I'm not convinced the fault is with my computers.

Another unfortunate hurdle!

It's rather frustrating, as having done a track day earlier in the week, I've been fired up all week to crack on with the Marlin this weekend ("I must get my track car built.....") and I could do without another set-back. That said I went paintballing today, and randomly have put my back out (something I've never done before, and I have no idea how I managed it), thus scuppering any "proper" kit car activity tomorrow...

Some footage from Monday in case you're interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLkY3SLpnVY Me driving a friend's 20 valve turbo mk2 golf gti - it's not a fast stint, as it was early in the day, and we were watching coolant and oil temps closely to check recent mods meant it could handle a day of abuse on track. 160 track miles later, and it was still going strong. The video masks the speed, but 120 is hit on the straights, with the tighter corners being taken at circa 40. Amusingly I spun at about 90 mph later in the day, when picking up the pace!

Off topic, but what the heck - stuck indoors on a Saturday evening isn't a good look!
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