IVA Emission test dates

peterux · #1 14th January 2014, 19:49

Hi all,
I have a question about the IVA emission tests.
In the testing flow charts in section Metered Emmisions 02B it talks about the "Vehicle effective date".
Does anyone know if this is the date of manufacture or the date of first registration?
I'm looking at buying a donor that was first registered on the 23rd August 1995 so it must surely have been manufactured before 31 July 1995 but which date do VOSA use?
If I can get a birth certificate from BMW for the engine from the engine number would it be reasonable to assume it will be prior to the 31 July 1995 cut off date for a CAT test??

Your thoughts and experience is appreciated

thanks.......peter

scimjim · #2 14th January 2014, 23:10

Test is done on engine date and most manufacturers will provide you with a letter of proof if you send them the engine serial number.

Mike · #3 15th January 2014, 17:13

Hi Peter

Although BMW sent me a letter confirming the date of manufacture, Ian Morris was not so fortunate - they would not oblige him.

I will email you a copy of my letter with the phone/email details for you to be able to make enquiries.

Mike

morris · #4 15th January 2014, 18:22

Peter, as Mike says, I didn't have much luck but it's worth a try.

BMW kept coming back asking for more information, photos of the engine stamp etc and in the end just said 'sorry, we can't help'. I don't know whether it was that they genuinely didn't have an answer on the build date of the engine or whether they thought I was some dodgy person trying to clone a number or something along those lines. I'm really hoping that when I get to IVA the inspector can actually verify the stamped in number is as I say as it is pretty faint.

peterux · #5 15th January 2014, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

Hi Peter

Although BMW sent me a letter confirming the date of manufacture, Ian Morris was not so fortunate - they would not oblige him.

I will email you a copy of my letter with the phone/email details for you to be able to make enquiries.

Mike

Many thanks. I wonder why they had an issue with Ian's request?

...peter

Mike · #6 15th January 2014, 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterux

Hi all,
I have a question about the IVA emission tests.
In the testing flow charts in section Metered Emmisions 02B it talks about the "Vehicle effective date".
Does anyone know if this is the date of manufacture or the date of first registration?
I'm looking at buying a donor that was first registered on the 23rd August 1995 so it must surely have been manufactured before 31 July 1995 but which date do VOSA use?
If I can get a birth certificate from BMW for the engine from the engine number would it be reasonable to assume it will be prior to the 31 July 1995 cut off date for a CAT test??

Your thoughts and experience is appreciated

thanks.......peter

Hi Peter

The answer is on page 12 of 14 in section 2B of the IVA manual rev 7 dated 17/6/13
..........if you can make any sense of it!!

Mike

Mike · #7 15th January 2014, 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by morris

Peter, as Mike says, I didn't have much luck but it's worth a try.

BMW kept coming back asking for more information, photos of the engine stamp etc and in the end just said 'sorry, we can't help'. I don't know whether it was that they genuinely didn't have an answer on the build date of the engine or whether they thought I was some dodgy person trying to clone a number or something along those lines. I'm really hoping that when I get to IVA the inspector can actually verify the stamped in number is as I say as it is pretty faint.

Ian

Is it possible you were not able to read the number correctly? I guess BMW would not tell you that it was wrong - could that be the reason why they repeatedly came back to you?

Or do you know the engine number from the V5 donor records?

I found mine because I knew the original Vehicle registration number, which a BMW garage used to look up on their system and determine the engine number. I then cleaned mine up, and its easier to recognise a number when you know what you are looking for.

Mike

peterux · #8 15th January 2014, 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

Hi Peter

The answer is on page 12 of 14 in section 2B of the IVA manual rev 7 dated 17/6/13
..........if you can make any sense of it!!

Mike

Brilliant!! That is what I was looking for but couldn't find the definitions last night. (every-time I read the IVA manual I spot something new and loose something else I've read before??)

So it says....

“Effective Date”
The “effective date” used to determine the criteria applicable is -
the date of manufacture of the vehicle, except for an “Amateur Built” vehicle, a “Vehicle manufactured using parts of a registered vehicle” or a “Rebuilt vehicle” it shall be 1 January immediately preceding the date of manufacture of the vehicle’s engine if this is earlier.
If the “effective date” cannot be determined, it must be assumed to be on or after 1 August 1997.

So the way I read it, in my example above.... the effective date would be the 1st January 1995 which is exactly what I'm looking for

morris · #9 15th January 2014, 21:16

Mike, I had the V5 copy from when I bought the car so knew what I was looking for on the block. It does help to know what it's supposed to read when looking at it though, I would not be so confident just reading it straight off the rusty block as 2 of the characters are quite worn though the others are OK-ish.

Peter, the only problem I read into that definition is that if you're unable to prove the date of the engine (in the event BMW can't/won't tell you), will a V5 from the donor be good enough to determine the effective date for the kit car given that the donor could have undergone a swap to a newer engine at some point? Does a swap get permanently registered on a V5 a bit like a colour change does?

cabrioman · #10 20th January 2014, 21:02

Peter

I came across this http://www.bmwarchiv.de/vin/ while trying to identify the age of my M20, in the end BMW confirmed it directly by letter but the details they provided exactly matched the output from the german vin decoder. It needs some english translation but its pretty straight forward.

Don't know if it helps you but......

John

morris · #11 20th January 2014, 21:25

That's a pretty useful tool. It confirmed my donor as having a production date of 11 Jan 1993 so hopefully that means I can go cat-less.

oh, and no need to translate, there's a pair of USA and UK flags at the bottom of the page to get it in english

I also noticed while looking at the V5 that there is a section to capture changes in the engine number so I should be able, even without BMW's help, to pull together enough evidence to make the case for my car's effective date

AcC8braman · #12 21st January 2014, 08:30

Hi,

The IVA man won't look at the engine number and then search a DB or something to check it - you need to provide the evidence and its up to him to accept or not

peterux · #13 21st January 2014, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabrioman

Peter

I came across this http://www.bmwarchiv.de/vin/ while trying to identify the age of my M20, in the end BMW confirmed it directly by letter but the details they provided exactly matched the output from the german vin decoder. It needs some english translation but its pretty straight forward.

Don't know if it helps you but......

John

Thanks, John, that's a very useful link. It confirms my new engine was produced on 03.08.1995 which is just over the 31st July cut off date for Cats but if I read the definition correctly mine will be a Amateur Built vehicle, and a Vehicle manufactured using parts of a registered vehicle so the 'effective date' should be the 1st January 1995.
I've not yet decided if I will keep the cats but at least I have the option.
Thanks for everyone's help.
...peter