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Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Marlin Sportster, Cabrio, Berlinetta and Roadster builds

Marlin Sportster, Cabrio, Berlinetta and Roadster builds Enthused or Confused about your vintage Marlin build? Ask away here or show off your build.

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  #241  
Old 12th July 2015, 13:20
8 Valve Ed 8 Valve Ed is offline
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That would be good Robin, thank you. I could widen the radiator space a little, the only real limitation is the sides of the nose cone and the steering shaft. I could probably accommodate 19" wide and 19" high at the sides, a little more in the middle. I don't need a filler cap in the radiator. The existing radiator is very heavy, with four cores. I do wonder if it really needs four cores but...

It would be good if there were some means of calculating the radiators capacity to emit BTU's and a means of knowing what heat various engines need to dispose of.

I have always wondered why the output from the radiator is directed at the engine which the heat has just been removed from! I guess the re-introduction of some fairly diluted heat to the outside of the engine is probably pretty insignificant. By comparison the exhaust manifolds get VERY hot, 250-300ºC. I have seen some manifolds wrapped in insulation but I would have thought that could lead to problems from cracking and only transfer the heat further down the exhaust system where it's perhaps even less welcome.
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  #242  
Old 12th July 2015, 18:15
reneanglia reneanglia is offline
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Wrapping the exhaust is originally ment to keep the heat in the exhaust to make the gasflow faster on the way out,not to keep the heat away from other parts.
The air passing tru the radiator is cooler as the engine but has no influence to the heath of the engine,the coolant fluid does the cooling,not the surrounding air.
René
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  #243  
Old 12th July 2015, 18:23
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Its about 18.5 inches wide and 19.5 inches high at the n/s where the top hose connects. About 18.5 inches high on the o/s. There is a reasonable lines drawing on aaronradiator.co.uk part no 2bw133. It fits like it was made to measure in the sportster nose. Its only 2 cores but I never had any overheating even when being stuck in long traffic queues in the summer. I do have a good electric fan (12") as I recall. And some 325's have an oil cooler althoughI am not convinced that makes a lot of difference in normal driving.

Cheers Robin
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  #244  
Old 12th July 2015, 22:54
8 Valve Ed 8 Valve Ed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reneanglia View Post
Wrapping the exhaust is originally ment to keep the heat in the exhaust to make the gasflow faster on the way out,not to keep the heat away from other parts.
The air passing tru the radiator is cooler as the engine but has no influence to the heath of the engine,the coolant fluid does the cooling,not the surrounding air.
René
Thanks for the clarification René, I wasn't clear on that, the references to wrapping the exhaust I have read have been aimed at preventing the exhaust heat from overheating the engine bay.

My exhaust manifolds reach temperatures iro 300ºC which certainly keep the surroundings warm!

I am just feeling my way at the moment, I made an 8 mile trip this evening and the engine re started quite happily. The route was quite flat so the engine wasn't pushed and didn't get particularly hot, big hills and it is a rather different outcome.

The improvement gained by restoring the original airbox and filters is remarkable. The car is a joy to drive now and hopefully can only get better. Flooring the accelerator simply shoves you back in the seat and hang on to the steering wheel! Previously it resulted in a gasp and the occasional back fire before a stuttering gradual gain in momentum.

Last edited by 8 Valve Ed; 12th July 2015 at 22:56.. Reason: Typo's
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  #245  
Old 12th July 2015, 23:28
8 Valve Ed 8 Valve Ed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinClan View Post
Its about 18.5 inches wide and 19.5 inches high at the n/s where the top hose connects. About 18.5 inches high on the o/s. There is a reasonable lines drawing on aaronradiator.co.uk part no 2bw133. It fits like it was made to measure in the sportster nose. Its only 2 cores but I never had any overheating even when being stuck in long traffic queues in the summer. I do have a good electric fan (12") as I recall. And some 325's have an oil cooler althoughI am not convinced that makes a lot of difference in normal driving.

Cheers Robin
Thank you Robin, I will take a look, the size seems workable. In a way I am skeptical about the advantage of four cores, by the time the air has made it's way through that labyrinth it has probably lost the plot and given up any attempts at extra cooling! It seems to me that a clear easy path for the air might actually result in better cooling, provided there is sufficient cool airflow.

Turning the fan on with my radiator seems to make little difference to the engine temp, although I don't believe it is over heating per se. with the Roadster and it's 1275 engine I had a single core Renault Clio rad and that responded almost instantly when I turned the fan on.

It's the mechanical integrity of the radiator structure which is my concern. I don't want to experience a burst radiator a long way from home with no backup, or means of an easy fix. I am considering joining a recovery organisation but I still don't want to tolerate a potential source of unreliability.
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  #246  
Old 13th July 2015, 08:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinClan View Post
Its about 18.5 inches wide and 19.5 inches high at the n/s where the top hose connects. About 18.5 inches high on the o/s. There is a reasonable lines drawing on aaronradiator.co.uk part no 2bw133. It fits like it was made to measure in the sportster nose. Its only 2 cores but I never had any overheating even when being stuck in long traffic queues in the summer. I do have a good electric fan (12") as I recall. And some 325's have an oil cooler althoughI am not convinced that makes a lot of difference in normal driving.

Cheers Robin
And I should have added that my side bonnet panels are well louvered meaning there is plenty of chance for the hot air to escape - an often overlooked point.

I think having 4 cores just means greater coolant capacity and hence more able to absorb sudden increases in heat dissipation requirements. I guess it makes only a small difference in normal running.

Cheers, Robin
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  #247  
Old 13th July 2015, 09:12
8 Valve Ed 8 Valve Ed is offline
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I have to admit I don't have any louvers in the bonnet sides as yet, although as I say, I don't consider I have an overheating problem, it has never boiled nor shown any tendency to do so, despite having been taken up some VERY long and big hills. Grizebeck is one of the biggest and guaranteed to cause a problem if there a suggestion of lack of cooling.

http://www.barrowcentralwhs.org.uk/c.../grizebeck.htm

I just found this link, I must check my times up there, will be interesting to see how the Marlin compares with a pushbike!!!

My soldering may have done the trick but I need to gain confidence with the car, this will happen over time as I iron out the little snags one by one. I definitely enjoy driving it, even better in a way than my old Rover P6's except for the lack of comfort of course, more akin to a 4 wheel motorbike, which was what I was expecting. The response to the accelerator and brakes is now good and that is key. I just hope the fuel costs stay within bounds.

I am not rushing to make the louvers just yet, I need to make a tool first, but it will come, I have ideas...
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  #248  
Old 13th July 2015, 17:02
reneanglia reneanglia is offline
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Is your fan turning the right way?
It must be sucking the air tru the radiator,i know you probably checked it but you won't be the first pushing hot air thru the radiator into the cool outer air..............
Also check the water channels in the engine block if there is non dryed up coolant left in the channels as the engine was out of commision for a while.
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  #249  
Old 13th July 2015, 20:35
8 Valve Ed 8 Valve Ed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reneanglia View Post
Is your fan turning the right way?
It must be sucking the air tru the radiator,i know you probably checked it but you won't be the first pushing hot air thru the radiator into the cool outer air..............
Also check the water channels in the engine block if there is non dryed up coolant left in the channels as the engine was out of commision for a while.
Hi René, the fan is drawing air from the front, sucking it through the radiator and discharging it into the engine bay. I am using a 12" (300mm) Kenlowe fan which is pretty powerful, there is no mistaking which way the air is moving. I chose to locate the fan behind the radiator to help protect it from the elements when the car is parked, as it will be for longish periods, living so near the sea, everything gets a gentle coating of salty sand in this area (We have to hose down the front door and windows weekly to prevent them looking shabby). It also provides a slightly less 'cluttered' view through the radiator grill.

The engine block and heads were very thoroughly cleaned with a powerful pressure washer before it was re-assembled, I am satisfied the grunge which did exist in the water jacket has all gone.

As I have tried to emphasise, I don't believe I have an engine cooling issue, but I greatly mistrust my existing radiator. Due to it's poor construction it could easily burst at any moment. The header tanks are made from 1.2mm flat brass sheet, folded into a box with no stiffening ribs, the corners are folded and soldered, they rely on the solder to fill gaps, also there are a number of cuts in the lower tube plate which have been soldered up, they have been leaking, add to that, before I got the car the water pump has tried to drill a hole through the centre of the radiator, I have repaired it pretty well but far from perfect. Murphy's law states if it can go wrong, it will and at the worst possible time. Murphy is often right.

From day one I have intended to re-core or replace the radiator, bearing in mind the engine is a Rover 3500 V8, replacement with new is very expensive, the small size of the aperture excludes most commercially available radiators with sufficient capacity, so I am finding myself looking for a bastard solution.

Thanks for your input René, it helps me focus on the issue at hand.
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  #250  
Old 13th July 2015, 21:22
8 Valve Ed 8 Valve Ed is offline
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Robin, Thanks for the info.

I called at my local breakers yard this morning, I know they have some BMW cars in, I was directed to the BMW corner and it was suggested I was looking for a 3 series car. There was a 325 complete with radiator, not like the one you pointed me to at the Aaron site but the core size seemed about right.

I remembered from my previous search of their radiator store that the rad in the 325 looked very similar to one I had seen in the store, so I went to find it. They charge £10 per Radiator.



I have bought the rad from the store and have easily pulled the left hand header tank from the radiator, this header incorporates an expansion tank. My plan is to go back when it's fine and get the other rad off the 325, if they both match exactly, which I think they will, I will buy that one and use the best core with both right hand header tanks.

That will then mount vertically and should fit perfectly, according to my measurements. I will then HAVE to install an expansion tank, which I have already started to make from stainless.

Today I acquired a new cylinder of Argon gas, so I will soon be able to weld the stainless tank together myself, and other stuff!

If this works, and I see no reason why it shouldn't, it will provide a good means of making a simple and effective radiator, even if you use a new one, it's very easy to get the tanks off by prizing the crimped tags back. They just need gentle straightening and then crimping up again on a fresh header tank.

The measurements are:

Height, including the two small header tanks, 570mm - (22.5 inches)

Width, including the plastic side protection pieces, 470mm - (19 inches)

Core thickness, about 38mm - 40mm?

Tank thickness, about 60mm

The core area is about 440mm by 440mm.

The radiator I got today has a fin spacing of 1mm and 15mm spacing of the tubes which are staggered.

The radiator I have is dated November 1997 and is marked as having come from a 320.





This is the rad with the header tank removed.



By the way... it's exactly 2 years since I collected the Berlinetta from it's PO. A lot of water has gone under that bridge since then.

# 9,255

Last edited by 8 Valve Ed; 13th July 2015 at 22:50..
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  #251  
Old 14th July 2015, 08:36
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That looks like a later one. Looks like its in very good condition!
Mine is from an earlier E30 (Pre face lift?) and has a seperate header tank.

Must have a picture somewhere.... Aha - and yer tiz



You can see that it is partly obscured by both the oil cooler and bottom chassis rail but still does the job.

Cheers, Robin
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  #252  
Old 14th July 2015, 09:26
8 Valve Ed 8 Valve Ed is offline
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Ah! Thank you Robin, that confirms my concern about that radiator, I don't think I would have room for the hoses to enter the radiator connections without fabricating metal ones with 'O' ring connections or similar, there is very little room either side of the radiator, probably less than an inch, so I don't think I could easily use that one.

Another option is that I have found, now I have removed the header with the tank, that the connections from the header to the expansion tank are small bore. It's possible I could plug them and possibly use one as a bleed back to my new stainless expansion tank, or as a drain point. That would mean I could possibly use the other rad by modding the header without actually removing it.

The core seems in very nice condition, there is some handling damage, a small patch of fins have been flattened but I am sure they can be straightened well enough. The other radiator which is still in the car looks 100% good, so if I can figure how to remove that in the awkward conditions of the breakers yard, I think I am on a winner, with backup.
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  #253  
Old 14th July 2015, 16:59
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If I recall correctly, the Marlin supplied sportster rad is actually a 316 / 318 spec unit for the M10 series engine:



Nissens Part Number : 60678
Material : Plastic/Copper
Product Height (mm) : 350
Product Width (mm) : 443
Product Thickness (mm) : 33
Replaces O.E Part Number : 1.151.700 1711.1.151.700

(Details nicked from an Aussie eBay item, but as Nissens is a UK company the product number should be ok - but just in case it's an E30 316i, '87-'94, Manual, No A/C)
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  #254  
Old 14th July 2015, 21:05
NigelB NigelB is offline
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I used the Marlin recommended radiator and yes, it is from the 316 /318 M10 engine cars (E30s I believe)

I had a 'full house' of louvres around the bonnet and the cooling was marginal (M50 325i engine). The engine ran at a constant 95-98 degrees, kept under control by the thermostatic fan, but I was always a bit wary about taking the car very far in 25degree + temperatures.

I have now fitted a rad from a MK1/2 ford Escort. It's the right size with a 42mm core but I had it modified to suit my pipe runs. Not sure whether it would suit your set up in its standard form or whether 42mm is the standard core thickness, but perhaps it's another option.

And the coolant temp never goes much above 85 degrees, even in last weeks (was it 2 weeks ago??) 37C!!

Nigel
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  #255  
Old 14th July 2015, 21:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatOldOne View Post
If I recall correctly, the Marlin supplied sportster rad is actually a 316 / 318 spec unit for the M10 series engine:


Nissens Part Number : 60678
Material : Plastic/Copper
Product Height (mm) : 350
Product Width (mm) : 443
Product Thickness (mm) : 33
Replaces O.E Part Number : 1.151.700 1711.1.151.700

(Details nicked from an Aussie eBay item, but as Nissens is a UK company the product number should be ok - but just in case it's an E30 316i, '87-'94, Manual, No A/C)
Good job I used a 325 rad then :-)
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  #256  
Old 15th July 2015, 12:47
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I have the same rad fitted to vikki, along with the biggest Pacet fan I could fit (in a pull air through config)

I've never had an issue with overheating - I don't recall the temp ever getting over the 88deg mark on my temp gauge. Having the oil cooler may help some, and I also have fully louvered side bonnets.
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  #257  
Old 15th July 2015, 19:26
a big scary monster a big scary monster is offline
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Any joy reducing the temp of the inlet? Did you rig a thermometer onto it? Ed
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  #258  
Old 15th July 2015, 23:43
8 Valve Ed 8 Valve Ed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a big scary monster View Post
Any joy reducing the temp of the inlet? Did you rig a thermometer onto it? Ed
I just spent the last half hour writing up an account of what I have done, I stupidly pressed the close window button by mistake and the whole lot is gone, I am too tired to re-type it now.

The short answer is not yet.
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  #259  
Old 16th July 2015, 17:27
a big scary monster a big scary monster is offline
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Are you still after seats? Measured some Suzuki jimny ones and I recon you could get them below 18" width, they would look OK headrests off and dyed black, think my dad has some narrow bucket ¾ height seats out of a mk2 spitfire in his loft il measure them up if your still after some. And meet you in morcome for some shrimp Ed
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  #260  
Old 17th July 2015, 10:50
8 Valve Ed 8 Valve Ed is offline
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Not sure what's going on here but I have twice tried to reply and been timed out.

I have lost the entire text of three long posts now which I find somewhat annoying. OK first time it was my fault for hitting the wrong button but now losing threads due to timeout, when I know I have taken much longer to type threads in the past without timing out.

Will PM you Ed...
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