Are you madabout kit cars      
 "We've Got Kit Cars Covered" Information about Madabout-Kitcars.com Contact Madabout-Kitcars.com         Home of UK kit cars - madabout-kitcars.com Various kit car write ups All the latest kit car news Kit car related and general discussion

Search
Manufacturers
Kit Cars
Kit Car Data sheets
Picture Gallery
SVA Knowledgebase
Clubs & Communities
Build cost estimator
Kit cars for sale
Knowledge Base 
KitcarUSA.com
Classic-Kitcars.com
 

Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Sammio Builds and discussions

Sammio Builds and discussions Sammio bodied car builds and specials

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #3101  
Old 16th June 2017, 19:34
molleur molleur is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,315
molleur is on a distinguished road
Default

Looking good Paul, keep on keeping on!
Reply With Quote
  #3102  
Old 17th June 2017, 06:34
Paul L's Avatar
Paul L Paul L is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wembley, London
Posts: 4,908
Paul L is on a distinguished road
Default

Molleur – Cheers.

Despite the small paint reacting problems, it does feel like I‘ve now broken the back of this work.

Plus the fact the boot lid flatted back so well gives me some hope for the body shell.
( As the BRG should cover any minor imperfections in the surface. )

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

But is it art?
I’ve definitely spent too long working in the sun recently.

Because, as I was messing up the high build primer on the body shell, I kept thinking about Mr T’s ‘dirty black’ TR8 example.



It was getting to the point where I was trying to work out what was the roughest finish I could get away with?

Thankfully, some time spent in the shade (and sanding the boot lid) brought me back to my basic plan of aiming for the best finish I can get.

However, last night, I did some searching on Google to see if there were any good examples of hand painted race cars.

Where this photo of Andy Warhol with a big brush in his hand caught my eye.



A bit more searching gave me his BMW M1 racing at Le Mans in 1979.



Before I ended up with this video clip combining his approach to car painting, some 24 hour racing and some art.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-B6tYPVDHQ

The key fact for me was that it took him just 24 minutes to paint the whole car!

Obviously, not giving a monkey’s uncle about the smoothness of the paint finish really helps to speed things up.

So perhaps I should have spent more time watching an artist at work, rather than a narrow boat painter.

Cheers, Paul.
Reply With Quote
  #3103  
Old 17th June 2017, 08:04
Mister Towed's Avatar
Mister Towed Mister Towed is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,100
Mister Towed is on a distinguished road
Default

Paul, yesterday I had the good fortune to meet a very nice chap who had completed his apprenticeship with Lotus back in the day.

In fact, he explained that he'd been recruited directly by the founder after Colin Chapman visited his school (where he wasn't doing very well), asked him some questions about a technical drawing for a scale model he was working on and offered him a place at Lotus.

His apprenticeship covered every aspect of car design, construction and finishing, including paint, and he'd gone on to work in the design department.

Fast-forward forty-five years or so and (amongst other things) he now restores classic cars, both for himself and commission work for wealthy customers. He's a real stickler for originality where possible and really knows his stuff.

We chatted about all things cars for about an hour even though he was only here to pick up an engine I'd sold on ebay. He took a look round my Spyder and asked me how I'd painted it. I explained that I'd bought a cheap compressor and gun plus five litres of silver cellulose, read some 'how to's' on the internet and just gunned it on with no previous experience. I said that I was happy with the results even though it clearly isn't a perfect finish.

His response was to say that it looks period correct and that too many people obsess about getting a perfect, glossy paint finish on their classic cars as they were never painted that well in the first place and a 'too good' finish can ruin the look of a classic car.

As an example, he cited a commission customer who was shocked when told that his very valuable 1930's racing car was going to be brush painted with coach enamel rather than sprayed, but was delighted with the result once it had been flatted back as it just looked right.

Interestingly, he also said that the Lotus apprentices were required to paint two cars during their training - one black and one silver. The black one would show up any flaws in the prep while the silver one would show up any issues with gun control (perhaps they could do with a few more silver cars in America?). Given the finish I achieved on my first attempt I must be a natural with a spray gun!

One last tip I picked up that's applicable to your project is how he goes about brush-painting cars, and I believe it's a very similar approach to your roller painted barge clip - a coat painted on horizontally, followed by a coat painted on vertically then flat the whole lot back until it has a deep shine that looks nothing like modern two-pack and everything like a decades old classic should look.

Love Andy Warhol's harlequin Beemer though, mostly because it exposes the Art world as susceptible to The Emperor's New Clothes syndrome - Warhol painted it so it's art and worth millions, if a bunch of teenagers had done that to an M1 it'd be vandalism...

Last edited by Mister Towed; 17th June 2017 at 08:07..
Reply With Quote
  #3104  
Old 17th June 2017, 15:44
Paul L's Avatar
Paul L Paul L is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wembley, London
Posts: 4,908
Paul L is on a distinguished road
Default

Mr T - Sounds like you met a like minded soul, with a great history, so thanks for sharing.

I actually read your reply just before I headed out for the day and it really lifted my spirits.

There is certainly no danger of me ended up with a "too good" finish, as Jeff H I ain't.

But I do take comfort from the fact that any paint job is going to look better than the grey primer.

Plus almost anyone who had asked "What colour is it going to be?" was pleased with my BRG reply.

So the sooner I get some paint on and get back on the road the better!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Watching Paint Dry:
Started the morning by inspecting the mess I had made of the high build primer on the body shell.

Although, as the paint layers get shinier, it is getting harder to get any decent photos.

But you can see the big long runs of paint on the side of the cockpit here.



My trusty scraper was to hand...



So I used that on the runs, which resulted in less damage to the surrounding area compared to sanding them down.



It was only at this point that I got the sandpaper out to smooth off the edges.



After tackling the worst areas on the body shell, it was all wiped down.

I then switched to the tent and was very happy to see how shiny the areas I topped up with high build primer were.

This is the reflection of the view out of the tent window.



I then did some initial sanding down of the boot lid.



Before heading back outside to apply the second coat of high build primer to the body shell.
( If you look closely, you can just about see me hanging out of the window to take the photo. )



Shortly after this I was able to watch a WWII Spitfire fly directly over my patio on its way back from 'Trooping the colour'.

It was just a shame I didn't have my camera to hand, as I had a great view.

Then it was back to the tent, where I decided that I should finish the underside of the boot lid first.





I did get a small paint reaction on one of the aero hump faces, but it is not the end of the world.

Then I really hope this is the last time I will need to work on the inside surface of the bonnet.



At which point, all the big pieces were now drying, so this has turned into a half day for me.

However, it is probably worth listing where I am with this work:

Boot Lid
- Underside - Small fix required.
- Sunny side - Ready for BRG.

Bonnet
- Underside - Done.
- Sunny side - Needs 2nd coat of high build primer.

Body Shell
- Sunny side - Flat back primer and then ready for BRG,
- Underside - Still need need to fix some damage to the boot floor.

I'm currently planning a full day off tomorrow for Father's Day.
( Although my family may have other ideas about that, so we'll see. )

Until next time, take care, Paul.
Reply With Quote
  #3105  
Old 17th June 2017, 19:17
Paul L's Avatar
Paul L Paul L is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wembley, London
Posts: 4,908
Paul L is on a distinguished road
Default

Saturday Supplement:
The sun beating down on my driveway helped bake the high build primer that I applied in the morning.

So I thought I would sneak in a quick session to make a start on flatting it back.

As before, the first few passes with the long board showed which areas needed most work.



But just as I was getting started, my wife and daughter returned from the shops with an impulse buy…

A small inflatable swimming pool.



Unfortunately, it did not come inflated, so I had to spend absolutely ages 'huffing and puffing' to blow it up.

After that, I only had the strength left to do a bit more sanding, but the surface does get smoother quickly.



I then made a quick long board pass around most of the body shell before calling it a night.





But I can see several hours work ahead of me to get the whole surface to a reasonable level.

Cheers, Paul.
Reply With Quote
  #3106  
Old 17th June 2017, 22:36
Barber's Avatar
Barber Barber is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Camberley
Posts: 972
Barber is on a distinguished road
Default

Mate, whatever the frustrations you have with the painting it is all better than undercoating the whole of the upstairs skirting, doors and architrave with the full knowedge that the only way forward is to do the top coat.
Reply With Quote
  #3107  
Old 18th June 2017, 05:33
phil9 phil9 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 745
phil9 is on a distinguished road
Default

good job paul the end is not far now ....and you will have a super hand made car ..that will be the envy of some... and will stop the rest in there tracks for years to come ...as you drive about as you no they point... smile...wave...and you see some go wow....and all built by you ...a great job
Reply With Quote
  #3108  
Old 18th June 2017, 07:54
DaveP DaveP is offline
Senior Member
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Reading, Berkshire
Posts: 664
DaveP is on a distinguished road
Default

Paul,
Again loving the pics. Painting your car is looking like running a marathon. We all know you have get and go to finish though. And when you finish you will have a BRG PB !

Dave
Reply With Quote
  #3109  
Old 18th June 2017, 08:50
Paul L's Avatar
Paul L Paul L is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wembley, London
Posts: 4,908
Paul L is on a distinguished road
Default

Ssssssh, everyone else is still asleep in my house, so I am typing this as quietly as I can…

Barber – I am sure my car would look much better if I could just stop wielding the brush like I am doing DIY!

Phil9 - Thanks for reminding me that the reward will be worth the effort.

DaveP – Cheers and if this job was a running race then I am definitely on the home stretch now.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Technical Hitch:
I forgot to mention one small fly in the ointment that I discovered yesterday...

I had my big tape measure out and there is certainly enough room on the drive for the Circus Tent to fit over the car.

BUT…

There wouldn’t be enough room to open the front door of the porch to get into the house!

So it looks like I will be painting the body shell al fresco after all.

Cheers, Paul.
Reply With Quote
  #3110  
Old 18th June 2017, 14:47
deggsy deggsy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 379
deggsy is on a distinguished road
Default

Keep up the good work Paul I'll be finished before you know it.
Reply With Quote
  #3111  
Old 19th June 2017, 07:05
Paul L's Avatar
Paul L Paul L is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wembley, London
Posts: 4,908
Paul L is on a distinguished road
Default

Deggsy - Thanks, I am really hoping the car will be in BRG by the end of this week.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Fathers Day:
I might have used a bit of poetic licence to describe the inflatable as a "swimming" pool.

However, after a nice family pub lunch, it was perfect for seating on a chair with your toes in the water.



Fun for all the family.



I hope to be back later on with a car update, cheers, Paul.
Reply With Quote
  #3112  
Old 19th June 2017, 18:12
Paul L's Avatar
Paul L Paul L is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wembley, London
Posts: 4,908
Paul L is on a distinguished road
Default

Mixed Monday - Part 1:
This turned into a bit of a stop/start kind of day with other odd jobs / chores taking up time too.

Anyway, the first job of the day was to find a way to support the bonnet.

So I dug out my workmate & some plywood.



Plus some cardboard and an old chair.





Threw a dust sheet over the top...



Et voila!



Note: The tent is open, because despite the fact this was only 8.20am, it was already like an oven in there.

The nose of the bonnet had been hacked about due to being stood on end to paint the inside.

Plus I'd banged the bonnet about a few times moving it in and out of the Summerhouse.





Then, while the driveway still had some shade, I carried on sanding down the body shell.



Having made just enough room to work in by moving the bins about.



By 2.20pm the body shell was literally too hot to touch!



So I had to stop sanding outside and switch to sanding in the tent instead.

I tidied up the bonnet nose.



Plus various other rough patches around the bonnet.



End of Part 1…

Last edited by Paul L; 19th June 2017 at 18:14.. Reason: Typo
Reply With Quote
  #3113  
Old 19th June 2017, 18:13
Paul L's Avatar
Paul L Paul L is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wembley, London
Posts: 4,908
Paul L is on a distinguished road
Default

Mixed Monday - Part 2:
I also sanded down both aero hump faces on the boot lid, where the paint reacted.



Then I remembered the 'spacer' used to hold the rear view mirror aero screen in place.



This needed a slight trim at each end and the black paint removed.



Before it could be given a coat of etch primer.



I then used some high build primer over the sanded down areas of the bonnet…





Some more 'bald' patches on the sunny side of the boot lid.



Plus both the faces.



Finally, I had also a few bald patches on the body shell.



So they were all given a high build primer 'top up' too.





So I am now just waiting for the paint to fully dry before I can put the covers back on for the night.

To be honest, today was just too hot for the effort required to sand things down, as I've been sweating buckets all day.

In fact, I am now seriously considering painting the car in the dark, when the temperature is just in the high 60s / low 70s.

Until next time, take care, Paul.
Reply With Quote
  #3114  
Old 20th June 2017, 15:46
Paul L's Avatar
Paul L Paul L is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wembley, London
Posts: 4,908
Paul L is on a distinguished road
Default

Close, But No Cigar…
The good news is that I finished sanding the rest of the body shell this morning.





The bad news is that I ended up with a collection of new 'bald' patches.





So there was another round of high build primer top ups.





I'll leave that to fully dry overnight and start applying the BRG tomorrow morning.

While the high build primer was out, the bonnet got its second and final coat.



So I can start sanding that down tomorrow.

The bracket for the rear view mirror wind deflector also got a coat of high build primer.



Then I turned the boot lid from grey...



To Deep Brunswick Green.



Where I got it right, the surface is really good 'straight out of the brush'.



But I am still getting very small areas with an adverse reaction.



Now I know the top coat is supposed to be applied as a single thick coat.

But I think I will try to apply it as two thinner coats when I start on the body shell tomorrow to see if that helps.

It looks like I will be back to 'real work' from next Monday, so I just have to get on with it really.

The only silver lining to this cloud is that the bad spots are a tiny percentage of the overall surface area.

Until next time, take care, Paul.
Reply With Quote
  #3115  
Old 20th June 2017, 16:58
Roadster's Avatar
Roadster Roadster is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 934
Roadster is on a distinguished road
Default

Well done Paul
It is a hard task - and this heat multiplies that tenfold
I have seen the car in the flesh and I can tell how much work you have put into achieving the level of finish.

Its the preparation that makes or breaks the paint job - and you will be very happy when its all cut and polished.

Then comes the yellow nose and the roundels - your almost finished.

Hopefully I will be able to help with the second Swordfish movie.
Maybe a trip to Norfolk?
Reply With Quote
  #3116  
Old 21st June 2017, 07:13
Paul L's Avatar
Paul L Paul L is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wembley, London
Posts: 4,908
Paul L is on a distinguished road
Default

Roadster – Cheers Mark.

I’ve certainly tried to get the best finish possible given both the limited time available and my ‘facilities’.

I know the paint will be far from perfect, but I will be genuinely happy with a ‘half decent’ finish.

Once the paint is polished and the racing numbers added, there will be definitely be a trip to Norfolk and a movie sequel.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Possible Painting Breakthrough:
I was searching Google yesterday trying to find out how long to leave the BRG to harden before sanding/cutting/etc.

Note: I’d still be happy to hear some suggestions from anyone on here who knows the answer to that.

Anyway, a link to an old (2012) thread from Rods ‘n’ Sods about using synthetic paint popped up and I found this…

Quote:
… also forgot to say, if a coat dries to the point its not tacky do not add another coat as it has now 'skinned'. if you apply more as it dries it shrinks and will crack the 'skin' on the previous coat giving a snakeskin look! ask me how i know
At which point, a light bulb went on.

It was definitely over 80 degrees in the Circus Tent when I was painting the boot lid yesterday.

I forgot to mention that I did try the ‘two brush’ canal boat painting trick for the first time and it was hopeless.

I’d actually got the paint on pretty nicely using the first brush, as there were few visible brush marks.

But by the time I pulled the ‘dry’ brush through, it simply ruined the surface finish.

Which, in turn, lead me to adding more paint over the top.
( Something I’ve done to numerous areas previously whenever I spotted a thin patch. )

So I now believe that ‘operator error’ is the most likely cause for the paint reacting, rather than anything else.

I will certainly be very conscious of this when I start painting the painting the body shell and see if it makes a difference.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Neighbours
I also keep forgetting to mention some of the conversations I’ve been having with people passing by as I prep. the car.

Without doubt, the most common theme from any of my ‘regulars’ is along the lines of “What went wrong?”

As anyone who has seen me driving the car on the road can’t believe it is now on blocks looking a mess.

One lady with a pram stopped for a chat yesterday and seemed unusually interested in what I was doing.

But when she said “My son still talks about the day he went for a drive in your car” the penny dropped.

As I’ve only really seen her son with his granny, not with his parents, but it did make me smile.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Anyway, I hope to be back later with another car update, cheers, Paul.
Reply With Quote
  #3117  
Old 21st June 2017, 08:30
lancelot link's Avatar
lancelot link lancelot link is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: POOLE , DORSET
Posts: 2,194
lancelot link is on a distinguished road
Default

I think leaving plenty of time between coats to dry is definitely the right approach ..this weather is a little against you , I feel as the paint will start to dry out as you apply it , but not dry enough to add to ..so it will drag a bit , if you aren't careful ...

I personally , wouldn't get too worked up about out getting 100% coverage with primer , either ...its annoying when it breaks through to the surface underneath , but a couple of little breakthroughs aren't going to matter too much ....you could spend forever chasing the primer and , seeing as how you are putting a brush applied top coat on , its not that crucial ...in my opinion ..

I think taking the weather into account , I would go for the several coats approach ...put a thinnish first coat on , not getting too stressed about it being patchy ...then cut the lawn or clean the driveway or something , come back to it after a good time of drying , put another coat on ..leave that to dry ....then another ...etc..etc... less chance of reaction , less chance of getting crazy runs that will need dealing with ...its a longer procedure , but its the way I would do it ... you could even lightly flat back between coats to take some of the elbow grease out of final polish ...... I know its frustrating , but you are sooo close now to having that 5 year itch scratched ...shame to rush the last stages ...
Reply With Quote
  #3118  
Old 21st June 2017, 12:55
froggyman's Avatar
froggyman froggyman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Devon
Posts: 539
froggyman is on a distinguished road
Default

Hi Paul, great progress, heat is good for the drying process but not the painting! A friends dad always painted his cars and motor scooters with Tecaloid coach paint and would allow the night dew to settle on his dry paintwork several times before cutting back and polishing. Be patient and I am sure you will be happy with the result.
Reply With Quote
  #3119  
Old 21st June 2017, 15:36
Paul L's Avatar
Paul L Paul L is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wembley, London
Posts: 4,908
Paul L is on a distinguished road
Default

Gary - Thanks for the detailed reply.

Unfortunately, I was already outside the house at the time you posted, so I only saw it after I'd painted the body shell.

However, I did take a lot of comfort from the fact that you confirm it is probably madness to be even attempting to paint in this heat.

It is not so much that I am rushing the finishing stages, more that I have simply spent too long on this project already and I am out of time.

Especially as my daughters have now said they don't like the amount of time I spend on the car rather than with them.

Although to put that into context, they are teenagers who also don't like what I wear, the music I listen to, the TV shows I watch, etc. etc.

But all jokes aside, they have their A Levels and GCSEs next year and I want to spend more time supporting them.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Froggyman Cheers.

With the car parked on the driveway, I need to put the covers back before I go to bed this evening.
( Just so no one passing by gets tempted to do anything stupid. )

Thankfully, the paint will have had almost 12 hours in this heat by then, so it should be OK.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

P-Day - Part 1

[Game of Thrones] Rain Is Coming [/House of Stark]

So despite today being predicted as the hottest day in June for 40 years, the thunder and lightening arrives tomorrow.

Which meant I had no time to lose and simply just had to make the best of it, there was no escape, it was Paint-Day.

By 8.30am, I had sanded some high spots, brushed the dust off, used a tack cloth and some panel wipe.

Which left the body shell looking like this.









At this time of the morning, the sun hits the front of the driveway as it is still rising.



So I had to start in the rear corner on the driver's side and work my way out.

Just for added fun and games, across the road, my neighbour was having the finishing touches put on his new driveway.



Which equated to the noise of an angle grinder cutting up slabs and the risk of dust blowing over my fresh paint.

Still, no one said it would be easy!

I filtered the paint into a separate container, which was easier to carry around.



End of Part 1…
Reply With Quote
  #3120  
Old 21st June 2017, 15:36
Paul L's Avatar
Paul L Paul L is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wembley, London
Posts: 4,908
Paul L is on a distinguished road
Default

P-Day - Part 2
Without a doubt, this was my best application of the BRG to date.
( No big scaling effects, just the odd wrinkle here and there. )

As I tried very hard to avoid going back over any thin areas, or going back to runs after they formed.

There was always going to be an issue keeping a 'wet' edge due to both the heat and the size/shape of the body shell.

So to say I was very happy with this first coat would be a massive understatement.











I then had a few errands to run before I could head out to the Circus Tent and start sanding the bonnet.





Following Gary's earlier advice, I didn't lose any sleep over the odd 'bald' patch that appeared.

I then switched to a small, one inch, brush in an attempt to limit the amount of paint I was applying.

But by now, I was working in some serious heat and by the time I'd finished, I had to open the sides of the tent to avoid passing out.

So I wasn't actually too disappointed when a rash of "scales" appeared at various point all over the bonnet.





And even though it is hard to get a decent photo, the bracket for the rear view mirror screen is now BRG too.



Apart from packing things away for the night, that is all for today.

I'm meeting one of my mates later on for a pint and I think I have earned it.

So I will leave you with this shot of the body shell baking in the sunshine.



Take care, Paul.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +0. The time now is 20:09.

copyright © madabout-kitcars.com 2000-2020
terms and conditions | privacy policy