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Can A Repaired Chassis Be Safe?

17 Sep 2011, 7:04am
There is a debate raging on the Triumph Torque forum about the strength of a repaired chassis.

There is a seasoned car expert who has posted ' I would say that a non repaired, not rotten chassis is always going to be stronger than a rotted one and stronger than a once rotted and repaired one. I doubt whether a heavily repaired chassis is of substantial enough strength to serve its function safely.'

So I am thinking whether this statement can be true? A chassis is simply steel sections formed/fabricated into a particular shape. If rotted metal is replaced with new metal and good penetration welds then why should it not be as strong?

The other point missed on the thread is that a chassis that looks to have sound rails may, in actual fact, be 90% rotten on the inside.

I have a vested interest in this thread as my Sammio is going to built upon a chassis that looked just as bad as the one which started the Triumph Torque thread. I have had it properly weld repaired by a local car restorer and I consider it to be as strong as the original.

Interested in the views of the Sammio community.

Thanks

Chris
17 Sep 2011, 7:58am
Hi Chris,

If we were talking about monocoque chassis then I'd say that "some" repairs on their own may leave it weaker as the strength is largely in the shape and the strength of the materials on their own play less of a part. I learnt a lot about this when stretching an MR2 for a Lambo kit (sadly never completed) as i encountered all of this first hand and had to do a lot of research into the measures needed to overcome certain types of repairs/alterations.

Our cars on the other hand have the ladder chassis and the strength is gained partly through the shape but largely through the materials used. So i think that it is pretty safe to say that in this case as long as the repair uses the same or stronger material and the welds are sound then there is no reason to imagine that the repair will weaken the chassis to such a level as any normal person would notice.

My chassis is a well used one and has a number of patches so I'm probably the same as you. I don't case that they're not "invisible" repairs as i've checked them and they seem structurally sound and sealed and transmit all of the required forces in the same way as the original designers had intended. (famous last words?)

Add to that the additional body supporting frame that we add and we are providing alternative paths for stresses to travel that are probably stronger than the original Herald/Vitesse tubs, which were primarily designed to keep the rain out and look pretty. Disclaimer: unless anyone knows one of the original structural engineers and can prove any different? in which case I'll happily amend my view :)


But as with all things t'internet related, this is just my 2p and I'm positive that others have alternative and differing views and can prove why mine is wrong and I'd be greatly interested to hear them as at the end of the day, I'm not precious about it :)
17 Sep 2011, 8:46am
My Vitesse was advertised as being virtually roadworthy, supposedly needing only a door tread plate to get it through the mot.

Having stripped it down to the bare chassis I'm so glad I dindn't buy it with a short mot and drive it home. The chassis, which looked really solid where you could see it, was full of hidden horrors and even a minor shunt would have seen the car disintegrate around me.

The serious corrosion, however, is in the peripheral outriggers, specifically at the points where the body and front bulkhead attach. These are cheap and easy to replace and won't be taking anywhere near the amount of stress with a Sammio body bonded to them as they are subjected to with the (unbelievably heavy) Triumph body tub bolted on.

As steel gets weaker with age new metal will inevitably be stronger than a 40 or 50 year old part, so a properly repaired chassis should be at least as strong as an unrestored original. The same applies to welded repairs, so long as the welds penetrate thoroughly and the metal around them is sound they'll do the job.

The real question should be 'are classic cars safe at all?' And, much as I love classic cars, I owned enough of them when they were only seven or eight years old to know that if they were losing their structural integrity back in the seventies then they won't have got any stronger nearly forty years on without a recent, body off, no expense spared restoration costing ££,£££.

Interestingly, I bought a copy of a classic car mag special edition yesterday for an eye watering ten pounds. For that it promised me loads of tips on welding, spraying, diy trim, floorpan repairs etc. The reality is that almost every article recommended taking the job to a professional and paying to have it done. It then went on to describe how a pro car painter/welder/trimmer uses modern equipment and materials to achieve a perfect finish every time. I could have bloody well worked that out for myself. What a waste of a tenner.

The ideal solution (imho) for those of us wanting to run something 'classic' on a realistic budget is to go down the Sammio route: you get to thoroughly inspect and repair the chassis with the body off; it massively reduces the stresses placed on the weaker peripheral areas; and you end up with a pretty much rust proof vehicle that looks stunning (Gary, you're a design guru!).

So, go back to your Triumph torque and other classic foums (should that be fori?) and enlighten them to the ways of the Sammio. Give them Gary's contact details and tell them to beat a path to his workshop door with cheque in hand and they too could benefit from driving a car with a chassis that's safe enough to do the job, probably... :whoo:
17 Sep 2011, 2:04pm
Thank you for the interesting views above - they echo my feelings exactly.

Just a before:

Material 002.jpg


And after:

Sept1 016.jpg


View of my chassis for anyone who is interested.

Thanks

Chris
17 Sep 2011, 6:09pm
Hey, that looks pretty good!

Are the pictures in bare metal after blasting or is there some kind of coating?

I'm just building up the courage to start work on my chassis. I've always wanted to try welding and now's my chance...


OK, doesn't look too bad from this distance.

Ahh, a few issues arising.

Hmm, should you really be able to see through the chassis?

And this is what was keeping the driver's feet off the M25.

Thought I'd cheer myself up with a picture of one of the shiny new things I've bought.
17 Sep 2011, 6:37pm
My car arrives tomorrow...

i really don't want it to be like that! I; not sure if being in a barn for forty years will be a plus or not?

Nice steering wheel, i bought an old Speedwell steering wheel from the sixties.
Friends have gone to Goodwood today, hoping to get pics of Lancia D 24 if there.:twitch:
17 Sep 2011, 10:17pm
Mister Towed,

My before picture is after I had the chassis blasted back to bare metal and the patches removed.

The after photo is following weld repair, seam sealer, POR15 undercoat and Sterling Silver POr15 topcoat.

Chris
17 Sep 2011, 10:45pm
Thanks for that Chris.

I'll be removing 'repair' patches and blasting my chassis myself soon.

I just hope there's something left once the dust settles.

Will post pics...
17 Sep 2011, 10:57pm
I hired a mobile welder to repair my chassis - we found 15 areas that needed patching! Thank god he rattled through them in only 4 hours, and now it can go for MOT without me worrying about what the tester finds underneath. Even after the £200 for welding and £500 for the car, having got £680 back on eBay, it only cost me £20 for all the running gear in a genuinely good condition.

Happy days!

Trevor.
http://www.sammiospyder.blogspot.com/
18 Sep 2011, 8:12am
Sounds like great value for all that welding and it's my backup option.

I'm going to have a go myself, though. Call me mad if you like but it's part of the whole challenge thing.

And I can't make it any worse, now can I? :eusa_liar:

Erm, on second thoughts nobody answer that one...
18 Sep 2011, 8:43am
Good on you for welding yourself!

I wish was an option I could try, but a rented garage with no power meant it was a non starter sadly. (My generator wasn't man enough to run a welder, only small hand tools.)
Trevor.
18 Sep 2011, 10:24am
That sounds like a challenge in itself.

You're also making fantastic progress which is an inspiration to the rest of us.

I'm still at the stage of 'all the gear but no idea'.

Gonna try sand blasting for the first time this afternoon. What can possibly go wrong...
18 Sep 2011, 12:11pm
Sounds like a top gear episode....

How hard can it be?

Cue a small fire...... (or paint gun explosion) !

Trevor.
18 Sep 2011, 2:54pm
Sammio Builder wrote:
Sounds like a top gear episode....

How hard can it be?

Cue a small fire...... (or paint gun explosion) !

Trevor.


Oi! I resemble that remark! :biggrin1: