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Hi all,
It has been a long time i'm thinking about starting a new thread on it, it's now time to do it.
I have difficulties to reach Andy ( no news since end of august last year) and i really start to get the feeling i will never get the car i ordered or at least the deposit i made to start tk001. Tk001 as been partially built but andy gave me the opportunity to stop the build to make a new one with the standard i expected. I was maybe a bit gullible at this time and accepted...
So i start this thread to know if i'm the only one or not (i'm pretty sure there are some others...) and get some help from this forum to know what can be done with british laws to start a procedure in a small claim court.
I don't want to fully blame Andy, i know he had some difficult moments but in the end he did not have a fair attitude and at this point i really want to find a way to get my money back.
Andy, i'm sure you will read this so please contact me to go ahead and avoid long procedure and waist of time for everybody.
Just a quick clarification to avoid any misunderstanding, especially with Mike:
June 2013, I ordered the car to Andy knowing that it would be the first one of the new Navigator shell. I knew it would take Andy more than 3 month to build it but I was patient as I expected a clean car. At this time I gave him the first £3000 to start the car. Another deposit was made in September the same year of £2512.44.
It was longer than expected with all the project he handled in the same time but I was really patient as I understood he needed to start his activity on different aspect. After nearly a year (end of april 14) he told me that he was not really happy with his job and wanted to start a new car with the expected finishing. He explained me the different points on which he wanted to work and I fully agreed and still trusted in him. I preferred waiting a few month more than being fully disappointed.
Then in june he told me that he stopped his activities and Mike was on the way to take it over. At this point I already said that I did not want the first TK001 and he offered me the possibility to take these £5512.44 back after “selling the company”. Mick finished TK001 as requested by Andy as he expected to sell it and get some money back. So please never blame Mike, he was aware and felt that my situation was solved but Andy did not take his promises...
I’ve been really patient over this year and a half, always waiting, leaving time to do his job, helping him (as I could) to find solution on the project and gave him an opportunity to go to Silverstone as a guest for an event, I just expected him to be a fair guy.
I really think there are a lot of good guys on this forum and if there is someone who can help me in my situation I would be really grateful.
Pam
I am truly sorry for the situation you find yourself in and will do all I can to help.
In light of this listing I will be making a statement regarding the whole RIBBLE/SAMMIO saga soon which I hope will explain both to you and the other forum users where I am and what's been going on.
He has just made contact with me regarding ANDY and RIBBLE HQ.
He claims he own the other car in the above photo, the yellow Pilot 274.
He also claims it was returned to Andy for some repair work but now he can't get in touch with Andy ether.
This is all strange to me as when I last spoke to Andy he told me 274 was his car and he wasn't sure if he was going to sell it or keep it.
Mike, thanks for your information. The Pilot 274 is my car. I bought the car january 2014 as bodied rolling chassis agreed a price for the ready car and some additional items, D24 stiled dash, overhold refurnished suspension with spax ajustable dampers at the front, 1500 Spitfire engine with electronical ingnishion,overdrive gear. Sideexaust. It was planed to use this car as demonstrator.The car should be ready at middle of march.I visited Andy End of march 2014 in his location and negotiated with him and Chris further improvements of the Sammio/Ribble Concept longerterm in generell to push the sales up..and started advertisingwork and directcontacts at fairs,meetings. The car was fully payed and I got the car end of April, but the streetregistration failed focused to the chassis condition...Therefore i returned the car to Andy for chassis repair or build a other one in may 2014. In June i got the information Andy will stop his efforts in illnessreason and in August i got the information that he is in negotiation with Mike to take over the moulds to continue the biz. But Andy would handle further the salesactivities. In Sept 2014 i was in contact with Andy for further followup and i ask him if he has a contact to handle the chassis refurnishment. He confirmed the car is still in his Workshop ready for pickup..
I think its still there. Hopefully someone could help to open a contact to him for further followup.
Rene123 - Was your user name originally just Rene?
As I went back to the "Ribble News" thread and this was the text that accompanied the photo I posted above...
AndyP57 wrote:
...Business is steadily pushing towards the turnkey direction (although the bread and butter kit sales are always there) and to that end we have appointed a very experienced agent, Rene Kummer, who will be looking after western European turnkey sales from his base in Cologne. Rene recently attended the Essen Classic show representing us and has come back with some interesting leads and ideas. His own car, a 1500cc Engined Pilot in Jaguar Pale Primrose, is about ready to be shipped along with the 2Ltr Navigator which will be heading to France, seen here together for the first time...
To be honest I have no idea what is going on, but do think this is all a real shame.
As Mister Towed said the other day, the original Sammio Spyder was "a great looking classic race car".
That photo of the red & yellow cars was a great inspiration to me to finish me own build.
I also aspire to one day adding my D'Artagnan to The Three Musketeers line up.
Mike, i negotiated with Andy the following changes in the concept in april 2014 with Andy and Chris:
1. Chassis as ready drive unit with all functions,
brakemastercylindes,brakepipes,electrical wiring, dashunit,seats e.t.c.
2. Bulkhead/firewall in grp.
3. Subframe roundtube(prefered) or squaretube design ready assambled, boldet and laminated to the sammio/body.
4. Subframe with sammiobody as one unit to assamble and deassamble to basecarunit for easy access for maintenance and repair.
5. Open painted tubedesign at the inner sidepanels and rearpanels. insteat of covered woodpanels.
6. Continuing with a long version for Herald and short Version for Spitfire. BUT indentical with grp bulkhead and splitted dash.
It was aggreed to startup that longer term,also similar for the other car development car concepts. But than he stopped with illnessproblems in June2014 and in August i got his information that the biz will may handed over to you mike...
But actual i see nothing rearly happen.
Paul, i see it more as a unexpected foul during his personal circumsdances. All activities in done advertisingwork with the agreed written new carspecification are stopped and canceled in contacts due to the stop in followups end of septembre. But I am missing the followup of my car and lost additonal money for all this activities,travels,e.t.c. It was agreed to show the demonstator to the interested people. Which simply failed through the chassis/ missing streetregistration issues. So still waiting in overcoming this situation. May Mike can help. Regards Rene
Can't you tell Police it's been stolen? Then at least it shouldn't be sold on... Give them the name, of who you believe has it, maybe they can visit the premises etc...
Garyh, in Septembre/Oktobre the car was still at Ribble HQ. i have never seen any sales ads of this car in the u.k. Or any report that the car was in any meeting in the scene or what else.
I feel its still in his hands...
Garyh, the red car from pam may was not sold at ebay, i watched it and remembering there was no bidding above the minimum price....???
If I am wrong, that i think is to clearify in this forum...
This listing has ended.
Free P&P
Details about Ribble Navigator Kit CarSee original listing
Ribble Navigator Kit Car
Photos not available for this variation
Item condition:--not specified
Ended:18 Oct, 2014 08:58:34 BST
Price:£5,000.00
Best Offer accepted
This item was listed in the fixed price format with a Best Offer option. The seller accepted a Best Offer price.
Item location:Leyland, Lancashire, United Kingdom
Seller:kitsandclassics (228 ) | Seller's other items
Year: 1977 MOT Expiry: 08/2015
Manufacturer: Ribble Transmission: Manual
Model: Navigator Fuel: Petrol
Doors: 0 Seats: 2
Colour: Red Drive Side: Left-hand drive
Reg. Date: 02/08/1977 Type: Sports/Convertible
Engine Size: 1,500
We can now offer for sale, the prototype Ribble Navigator which has just been MoT'd with no advisories (See photo) and has a V5 in my name, currently registered as the donor car, a Triumph Spitfire 1500.
This car was built as a Left Hand drive configuration initially for potential export so the DVLA Rebody paperwork has not been carried out (Not required, nor desirable for European sales) but if the eventual buyer needs assistance in this, we can certainly help (It is a simple paperwork exercise these days)
Although in this build, the rolling chassis has not undergone a complete strip to bare metal, all joints and structure have been carefully checked and replaced where necessary.(Hence the clean MoT). It must be noted that this prototype's cockpit is considerably smaller than its stable mate, the Pilot, and along with a raised floor at the footwell, is really optimised for the more 'petite' driver. This could be increased with a little work in adding a lowered front floor along with seats with less 'rake' but if, like me, you are over 6ft, you may find the seating position a little cramped.
Note that the headrest 'humps' shown in two of the photos are included in the sale but are not fixed to the car. This allows the buyer to choose between none, LH, RH or Two humps.
A great runner and showing plenty of power from the 1500 Spitfire engine, it could benefit from a good tune to optimise the fuel efficiency and get the most out of the engine.
This car is priced to sell. . No tyre kickers or haggling once you commit. You are more than welcome to visit and see the car in the flesh by prior arrangement.
Purchaser should place a non refundable deposit of £200 by Paypal with the balance payable by either cash or direct bank transfer on, or prior to collection. We can assist in shipping but the full balance must be paid before the car leaves our workshop.
Oxford,yes you are right, i watched in August the salesoffer in ebay which was unsold. I copied the ebaysalesdiscription for Pam.
Yes, red car was mine but far from my expectation and Andy offered me the possibility to start again a new one to solve all the problem from this first prototype. He then intended to sell the red car to raise money to start the new one, i was maybewrong and should have keep the car as it is to get at least something... I did not expect it to turn that bad.
If anyone can help us to find a way to contact him, i will be greatful ( as Rene i think).
Pam ok,fine. I am wondering that in ebay i can see different auctions in Septembre 2014 with your car.
1 auction reached BPS 4550,- below minimum price and not sold and later one at September to fixed price BPS 5000 unsold and then one with BPS 5000,- sold with accepted bidding below. In summery the salesprice was below 5000.-
Was this price agreed with you?May BPS 4500.-
What was agreed? Resale to what price? And to build a new one in which specification to which price?
Any thing written agreed? Timing? Is still this followup open?
May there is a way to sort that out.
I agreed a Cordite from the "new" mould with Andy, at the beginning it was with a 2.0 6 cylinders. Then Andy told me (Mick told me the same when he got the car in his hand) that the car has not been made really properly made and a lot of points could be improved. Then we agreed together to go ahead for a brand new build from scratch and to start it I was ok to let him sell TK001 to get money from it. Now I have nothing...
I had only mails with him for all of it, I have the bank transfer and his confirmation that he got it to prove I gave him this money but no real "contract".
I have everything to prove what we agreed. It's really a shame that we cannot get any feedback from him, I understand he got some difficulties but in the end he does not really desserve all the good guys producing kits. I really wanted one of these wonderful cars, when I see M. Towed or all the others with, I really feel bad as I will never get one (even if I would have never been able to feel proud like them of the full build).
Rene, for you, it really looks like a stolen car as it's registered to your name.
Andy, I know you will or are already aware of all of it so please do something to solve it in reasonnable way even if it's a long process, please do something.
Pam, yes i saw your car with 6 cylinder triumph engine not finished im March 2014 during my visit in Andys Ribble HQ.
The chassis and suspension was in open view and clean. He tould me its for a french costumer. Why did it taken so long from June 2013 to finish this car? Was the car finished, when you has taken your decision not to take this car? When did you change the project? April or later as part of the Bizchange in July/August ? Pam for my car its legal much easier, i have a written official contract, bills,moneytransfer documentations, shipment documentations and bills in both directions and a written confirmation from September 2014 from Andy that he is not able to follow further up in accepting the pickup and shipping of my car with papers in a other location.. But actual no contact with him. Hopefully he will react and stay to his commitments. Or someone is knocking on his door...
