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-   -   Royale Sabre - Take two! (http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3824)

seanick 30th January 2013 20:31

You are doing a blooming lovely job Peter. But I do have a major criticism. There was no evidence of any handbrake turns in the snow by your garage. Tut tut! Now you will have to wait until next year!!

peterux 31st January 2013 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by seanick (Post 39648)
There was no evidence of any handbrake turns in the snow by your garage. Tut tut! Now you will have to wait until next year!!

:lol:

Patrick 31st January 2013 19:02

/\ he he :D (there is in my work car park :eusa_shhh: :eyebrows: )

peterux 8th February 2013 09:37

Week 23.

Sorry no pictures this week. I've been working on an issue with my front hub bearings but nothing new to see at the moment. :sad:


....peter

peterux 14th February 2013 08:36

Week 24 update.....

And so on to the engine trial fitting....

The Royal Sabre chassis that I have, was designed to take the Ford 'Cologne' V6 engines. These engines are very heavy and relatively low power for their CC. They are also hard to come by in good condition and second hand ones on ebay can be a bit of a gamble. Other Sabre builders have used the Rover V8 engines but my preferred choice at present is the BMW M52 in the 2.8 variety. These make 190BHP in stock form and there are plenty of cars about to choose an engine from. If I can get an early 1995 model I might escape having to fit cats. The Sabre gearbox tunnel will likely need some modification but as this is made of fibreglass and not structural it should be relatively easy to modify.

The big question still to be answered is whether the M52B28 will fit and still have room for the brake servo due to its 30 degree slant mounting angle. I have a 'gash' M52 engine from a previous abandoned project that I'm going to use to see if it all fits before committing to the final engine.

So I first bolted together the gash engines sump, block and gearbox. I then rested this combo on a 10mm thick offcuts of MDF on the chassis crossmember. I need to get the engine as low as possible but still need some clearance for the engine to 'rock' under acceleration. I'm using very stiff Land Rover engine mounts so there shouldn't be much vertical deflection.

I then cobbled together a gearbox mount from a Marlin part and some old Ford parts to bring the engine block level.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8377/8...e898b9f4_c.jpg
Engine fitting trials by marlinpeter, on Flickr

This combination created just the right height to get the engine block level. A more elegant mount will be made if this works.
(Since posting this picture on my Flickr site, Ian (Morris) has pointed ot that the BMW engines are mounted in their cars with the back of the engine sloppy down by about an inch, so I will experiment with dropping the back of the gearbox down further but I'm concerned about the propshaft working angle deltas.)

I then made up some 'stays' to hold the engine in the right position and at the right cant angle. Even without the cylinder head it tends to roll over if not supported.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8097/8...b37c6cfb_c.jpg
Engine fitting trials by marlinpeter, on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8243/8...9d7ca492_c.jpg
Engine fitting trials by marlinpeter, on Flickr

The disposable stays are able to be adjusted fore and aft and sideways. Since taking this shot I've slotted the holes on the stay to the rubber mount so I can adjust the engine side to side.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8085/8...e0ce5bf7_c.jpg
Engine fitting trials by marlinpeter, on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8112/8...677b13e6_c.jpg
Engine fitting trials by marlinpeter, on Flickr

Now I've got the engine in position, the next job will be to refit the body tub and see where I need clearance. That's a job for the weekend when my sons are around as it's a three man job!

I've also now swapped my Granada power steering rack track rods for the ones from the Sierra manual rack. This has given me the correct track width to adjust the front wheel toe-in correctly. The track rods have the same screw fitting inside the rack so it was an easy swap.

:smile:....peter

MartinClan 14th February 2013 12:30

That's an interesting approach to sizing it all up. An "empty" block is going to be much easier to move about than a "full" one!

I was going to say that you have plenty of room in there - but then I remembered what the Sportster engine bay looked like at first before all the bits and bobs were bolted to the engine.

It will be interesting to see how it all fits one you have the body panels on, but I am guessing if they manage to squeeze a V8 in there you should be fine.

Must pop down and take a gander soon....

Cheers, Robin

dodsonmrf 14th February 2013 15:47

Newbie
 
Hi Peter,

First off, it looks like you are doing an amazing job on this lovely motor.

Now to business. I have recently inherited an unfinished Sabre kit from my Dad. It has been sat as a rolling chassis for a few years now. I've yet to do a complete survey as to how it has held up, but at first glance it doesn't seem too bad.

I'm just wondering if you would mind answering my questions in the future as this will be my first build. I'm aiming to pick the car up in a little over a month and will be stripping it right back as you have done.

Any help from yourself and any others here would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Mark

peterux 14th February 2013 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinClan (Post 40339)
That's an interesting approach to sizing it all up. An "empty" block is going to be much easier to move about than a "full" one!

I was going to say that you have plenty of room in there - but then I remembered what the Sportster engine bay looked like at first before all the bits and bobs were bolted to the engine.

It will be interesting to see how it all fits one you have the body panels on, but I am guessing if they manage to squeeze a V8 in there you should be fine.

Must pop down and take a gander soon....

Cheers, Robin

Hi Robin,
yes, assembling the engine bits 'in situ' is much easier as I can lift the alloy block without a crane but probably not advised for an engine you plan to use as you can see rust forming on the parts.

Your welcome to come have a look whenever you like....

...peter

peterux 14th February 2013 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by dodsonmrf (Post 40341)
Hi Peter,

First off, it looks like you are doing an amazing job on this lovely motor.

Now to business. I have recently inherited an unfinished Sabre kit from my Dad. It has been sat as a rolling chassis for a few years now. I've yet to do a complete survey as to how it has held up, but at first glance it doesn't seem too bad.

I'm just wondering if you would mind answering my questions in the future as this will be my first build. I'm aiming to pick the car up in a little over a month and will be stripping it right back as you have done.

Any help from yourself and any others here would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Mark

Hi Mark,

firstly, welcome to Madaboutkitcars and it's great to meet another Sabre builder. You are the second to contact me in the last two weeks so there are are a small group of us either building or restoring Royale Sabre cars.
I'd be happy to answer any questions that I can, but bear in mind that I'm still learning myself. Other sources of info are from the Royale Owners Club who are a very friendly bunch and also the current manufacturer (ACL) run by Malcolm Badger.

http://www.royaleownersclub.org.uk/index.asp

http://www.automotivecreation.com/
Malcolm has now a comprehensive list of parts on his website above and I'm sure he will help if he can.

Let's see some more info and pictures of your Dad's car and send me a PM if you want my direct email address,

...peter

dodsonmrf 14th February 2013 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterux (Post 40343)
Hi Mark,

firstly, welcome to Madaboutkitcars and it's great to meet another Sabre builder. You are the second to contact me in the last two weeks so there are are a small group of us either building or restoring Royale Sabre cars.
I'd be happy to answer any questions that I can, but bear in mind that I'm still learning myself. Other sources of info are from the Royale Owners Club who are a very friendly bunch and also the current manufacturer (ACL) run by Malcolm Badger.

http://www.royaleownersclub.org.uk/index.asp

http://www.automotivecreation.com/
Malcolm has now a comprehensive list of parts on his website above and I'm sure he will help if he can.

Let's see some more info and pictures of your Dad's car and send me a PM if you want my direct email address,

...peter

Thanks Peter,

I think my Dad was a member of the owners club, I'll have to check with him.

As soon as I can get to the car I'll take plenty of pics and have a good rummage around it to see how it's looking.

Mark

peterux 19th February 2013 21:08

Week 25 update.....

This is going to be a major update so let's see if I can get it all done in one update :smile: (I might need to split it if there is a limit on the lines of update).

The week started off with the Flo-flex differential/final drive mount that didn't fit. I made up a spacer a couple of weeks ago and decided to fit it before re-fitting the body tub.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8089/8...e6f4101b_c.jpg
Diff mounting spacer by marlinpeter, on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8520/8...26e4f839_c.jpg
Diff mounting spacer by marlinpeter, on Flickr

It now all fits OK. There was some lateral misalignment of the mounting holes which is possibly why the car came with 8mm bolts fitted. I filed out the chassis holes to align to the mount holes so that I could fit 10mm bolts and nylocks.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8093/8...1b2d0b4e_c.jpg
Diff mounting with spacer by marlinpeter, on Flickr

Next up was the body mounting foam. The build manual calls for body mounting felt which I couldn't find anywhere so I've used some handy self adhesive 3mm thick closed cell foam. It was easy to use and went on a treat.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8506/8...8588df6f_c.jpg
Body mounting foam by marlinpeter, on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8086/8...17cdab4f_c.jpg
Body mounting foam by marlinpeter, on Flickr

Then , Saturday morning my two sons were 'press ganged' down to the lock up to help me lift the body tub back on to the chassis to be able to press on with the Engine fitting trials.

The first problem was that the gearbox tunnel fouled on the Marlin gearbox bracket that I had co-opted, so that had to be removed straight away. Here you can see me using my engine hoist to lift the body up for me to work on the gearbox mount underneath.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8507/8...0275e893_c.jpg
Body lift!! by marlinpeter, on Flickr

After removing the gearbox bracket, the next obstruction is the top of the gearbox tunnel rests on the top of the gearbox so I've put these 40mm thick blocks of wood to hold the body tub clear.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8089/8...fba13a99_c.jpg
Next problem.... by marlinpeter, on Flickr

Problem three.....

....the next problem was that I had mounted the engine too far back to fit the cylinder head. I had to modify my 'engine stays' to move the engine forward by 20mm leaving a 5mm gap between the sump and the large chassis cross-member.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8512/8...8b7de97e_c.jpg
Problem three..... by marlinpeter, on Flickr

Problem four....

The next problem after fitting the cylinder head is this bit of cover guide gets in the way of the brake servo.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8232/8...aaf15a6e_c.jpg
Problem four.... by marlinpeter, on Flickr

I took a saw to the offending bit of plastic. I don't think it is important.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8521/8...6494da18_c.jpg
Problem four...fixed by marlinpeter, on Flickr

I think i'll pause here so I don't lose the whole update.....to be continued....

peterux 19th February 2013 21:20

Week 25 update .... part 2!

After lots of trial and error in the foot-well and modifying holes and drilling new ones I managed to get a position for the servo.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8522/8...1066ecfd_c.jpg
Servo positioned by marlinpeter, on Flickr

Brake master cylinder - I can't see any issue fitting this with its reservoir fitted.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8521/8...11cf6371_c.jpg
Brake master cylinder by marlinpeter, on Flickr

I had to position the pedals as far to the right and as high as possible to create the best possible chance of fitting the servo. (the MDF is only temporary!!)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8230/8...c1ab4321_c.jpg
Pedal box by marlinpeter, on Flickr

Pedal positions need a bit of work but it shouldn't be too difficult to achieve a better spacing. They are also a bit high so I might need a spacer block under the carpet on the floor.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8231/8...602a22f6_c.jpg
Pedals by marlinpeter, on Flickr

I can just about get the rocker cover on and off with the servo in place but not much clearance for the engine to rock sideways?

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8380/8...df479885_c.jpg
Servo/rocker cover clearance by marlinpeter, on Flickr

So this is as far as I've got this week but there is a lot more checking required....
In the following picture it all looks good but there is still a lot a checking to do like the bodywork, bonnet, radiator space and steering column, etc.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8381/8...418101ec_c.jpg
More checking required.... by marlinpeter, on Flickr


There is also one fundamental problem and that is the bodywork is still jacked up on 40mm blocks of wood. My original plan was to carve up the gearbox tunnel to lower the body but if I do this the servo will certainly not fit.
If I do fit this type of engine I will need to modify the chassis to lower the engine and gearbox by about 45mm.

I need to do a lot more measuring and thinking about the consequences before embarking on carving up the chassis.

Now where is that angle grinder :madgrin: :madgrin: :madgrin:

Patrick 19th February 2013 21:26

awesome stuff :D I like that diff bush / mount system.

peterux 19th February 2013 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick (Post 40543)
awesome stuff :D

Yeah, but I've spent far too much time on the car this week. Pauline says that I've got OCD but I don't know what she is talking about :lol: :smile:

Patrick 19th February 2013 22:17

obsessive car disorder, I think that one goes around quite a bit ;)

Peepsy 21st February 2013 07:03

You do like a challenge ! great work Peter. What about cutting the Tub front to back and adding in a little width ?

peterux 21st February 2013 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peepsy (Post 40604)
You do like a challenge ! great work Peter. What about cutting the Tub front to back and adding in a little width ?

:lol:.....I'll add that to my list of options ...

...along with the electric power driven hood :eyebrows: (Do you think my wife would notice if I nicked it out of her Audi TT :peep: )

But you're right, I do seem to make things complicated for myself. I just can bring myself to putting am old Ford engine (boat anchor?) in it.

JG 21st February 2013 21:40

On the subject of body mods, I've often looked at the Sabre and wondered if it would look a bit more 'vintage' if it did away with the headlight mouldings on the wings and had big chrome bowl headlights instead. And similarly, do away with the current windscreen frame and replace with a separate chrome framed jobbie. Not that I want to add to your workload :tape:

peterux 23rd February 2013 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG (Post 40629)
On the subject of body mods, I've often looked at the Sabre and wondered if it would look a bit more 'vintage' if it did away with the headlight mouldings on the wings and had big chrome bowl headlights instead. And similarly, do away with the current windscreen frame and replace with a separate chrome framed jobbie. Not that I want to add to your workload :tape:

Gee thanks John, I think I'll put those on the list for when I've done everything else :lalala:

peterux 23rd February 2013 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterux (Post 40542)

There is also one fundamental problem and that is the bodywork is still jacked up on 40mm blocks of wood. My original plan was to carve up the gearbox tunnel to lower the body but if I do this the servo will certainly not fit.
If I do fit this type of engine I will need to modify the chassis to lower the engine and gearbox by about 45mm.

I need to do a lot more measuring and thinking about the consequences before embarking on carving up the chassis.

Maybe as an alternative to the MBM servo is a remotely located dual circuit servo.
I've found this one manufactured by a Spanish company called Iruna brakes and sold in the UK through a couple of retailers.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8095/8...0731f822_o.jpg
Alternative Servo option by marlinpeter, on Flickr

I've found it on Google fitted in a wide variety of cars from a classic e-type jag to VW camper vans, Cobras and a 356 speedster replica.

By using a remote dual circuit servo it gives me some more options than modifying the chassis.

Anyone got any experience of these units?


...peter


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