Madabout Kitcars Forum

Madabout Kitcars Forum (http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/index.php)
-   Sammio Builds and discussions (http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=17)
-   -   Another Cordite Is Born ... (http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3492)

Paul L 4th September 2012 19:22

Thank you gentlemen, this is why this forum is so good. :cool:

Quote:

Originally Posted by WorldClassAccident (Post 34683)
... In the Scimitar there was a wire between the reverse switch and the overdrive switch. This prevented you switching on the overdrive when in reverse ...

:lightbulb:

And slowly, but surely, the penny drops.

A quick check of my modified Haynes manual wiring diagram gives me the following:

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7366.jpg

14 = Reversing light switch
19 = Gearbox inhibitor switch.
It was the GN (Green Brown) wire with one end marked "gearbox" that made me panic.
But it was correct to cut it and I can now safely remove it completely as planned.
The G (Green) wire is the important one and that is thankfully untouched.
If everything works the way it looks on paper...
Switch 14 would connect to Switch 19 even if no lights were connected.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Towed (Post 34686)
... as soon as I listed the first few Vitesse parts I started to get messages asking what other bits I'd got...

I had the same thing, with 4 people lined up to buy the body shell.
But the rain delays meant by the time I was ready to sell they had found alternatives.
Still, as you say, it is finally sold and that is a big milestone for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by davecymru (Post 34695)
... i also found Spitfire Graveyard to be brilliant as they always made sure i had what i needed rather than what i asked for...

They could easily have sold me the wrong thing as I kept insisting it was what I wanted. :rolleyes:
I first spoke to them on Friday and had go back and double check what I was talking about.
Sure enough, I ordered something completely different on Monday!

Cheers, Paul. :)

Paul L 5th September 2012 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul L (Post 34714)
...If everything works the way it looks on paper...
Switch 14 would connect to Switch 19 even if no lights were connected...

Sorry, I've been dreaming about wiring again. :rolleyes:

If I remove the reversing lights, should the other end of switch 14 be connected directly to earth?

Or is it OK to simply leave the GN wire end unconnected?

Paul L 9th September 2012 17:41

Whilst I'm waiting for my Spitfire body shell to be collected, I've got on with a few other small jobs...

Headlights:
Before cutting holes in my bonnet, I wanted to make sure everything I had would work together.
I'm using a mixture of Spitfire donor parts, brand new headlights & 2nd hand cowls for my Cordite.

I'd already given the outer headlight shells a coat of Hammerite. but the inner shells were also a mess.
( A spring holds the inner shell, which is attached to the headlight itself, to the outer headlight shell )

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/WA...A=w640-h480-no

But they needed a little bit of modification work before I could start painting them.
My new headlights have a side/parking light built in, unlike my donor with its separate side lights.
So the inner shells needed a hole in them so they could be fitted over this extra bulb.
I simply drilled lots of holes & made them bigger until the metal came out, then filed the edges.
A quick test fit showed the hole was is the right place, so they were ready for painting.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/rX...w=w360-h270-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/sR...0=w640-h480-no

I'd made a school boy error when I was in a rush to paint the outer headlight shells.
I'd simply unclipped the wires from the 3 point headlight connector without noting what went where.
I'm sure there was a good reason why I didn't just pull the wires through the front of the shell???
After a quick test I think the connections at the back of the headlight are wired as follows:
Left = Blue/White (High Beam) Top = Black (Earth) Right = Blue/Red (Low Beam)

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7431.jpg

That wasn't the only headlight wiring issue to resolve as the side light needed wiring too.
The problem was the outer shell grommet was already a bit of a tight squeeze with 3 wires.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JV...U=w640-h480-no

I wanted to reuse this if possible rather than drill another hole in the headlight shell.
So I warmed the grommet in hot water in an attempt to pull the wires out (they were jammed in).
This was almost a good idea until my gentle encouragement pulled a male connector off. :rolleyes:
Still the other wires came out intact and this allowed me to drill a bigger hole in the grommet.
( I applied a little bit more patience on the other headlight's grommet and it worked a treat.)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/2b...=w1151-h863-no

I just need to run one extra wire through, as earth can be linked to the main light within the shell.
I used surplus Red/Blue wire from my loom as the side light feed & will update the wiring diagram.
All 4 wires went back through the enlarged grommet hole with no problems.
I then spliced a Black wire (again loom left overs) into the existing headlight earth connection.
Then it was a case of wrapping everything up so that it looked like I knew what I was doing!

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7476.jpg

Next up were the original chrome headlight retaining rings that attach to the inner shells.
Whisper it, but I had to remove some over spray left by the previous owner. :icon_wink:
A quick rub with paint cleaner & a bit of a polish with some Autosol, job done, simples.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7427.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7459.jpg

The two 2nd hand headlight cowls from Spitfire Graveyard are not identical, but both fit.
One has a hole in the bottom, although I'm still not 100% what keeps these in place.
I gave them a rub down with steel wool & sand paper, before a couple of coats of primer.
Then a light sand, before a couple of coats of Halfords 'Gadget Blue' enamel paint.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7429.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7456.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7468.jpg

So far, so good, but there is a slight technical hitch, this is the wrong colour.
It not is easy to see in the photos, but the paint is definitely significantly darker.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7469.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7472.jpg

I used the colour AndyP57 suggested, so something has gone amiss somewhere.
Its not a big deal, I'll just do a bit of research to find a better match in a light shade.
( Perhaps I shouldn't have used enamel paint? I was rushing & that the only can of "Gadget Blue" they had. )

On the bright side, the Hammerite on the inner shells came out the right shade of black. :icon_wink:

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7473.jpg

With all the pieces now finally ready I was able to put them all together.
I just needed to bend the connectors for the side light so they didn't foul the other shell.
I know it isn't much, but it is still nice to see a part of the finished car.
( And it is simply a case of "tucking in" the rubber gasket to hold the cowls on? )

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wt...A=w640-h480-no

I will need to dismantle everything again to drill the matching holes in the bonnet.
Although I will wait until I've fitted the 'beer crate' grill before I finally fit them.

I think I've reached the limit of photos, etc. I can put in one post.
It has been quite a hectic weekend as I tried to make the most of the weather.
So I will leave it at that for now and cover the other stuff in a day or so.
And with a bit of luck, the body shell is being collected tomorrow evening.

Take care, Paul. :)

Paul L 11th September 2012 18:03

Spares:
My donor came with various boxes of small bits I keep forgetting about (I shoved them in the shed).
So it was good to discover the spare wheel mounting bracket before the body shell was collected.
I also found a spare for this split gearbox cover bracket I removed from the car (& already painted :doh:).

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Ja...M=w360-h270-no

More Painting:
While the Hammerite was out for the headlight shells, I also painted a few other things too.
- The rear radius arm brackets that will bolt to the Cordite Frame.
- The spare gearbox bracket I found above.
- The mounting bracket for the expansion bottle I got from Spitfire Graveyard.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7457.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7474.jpg

Waxoyl:
Also in that box of bits were 2 spray cans of Waxoyl which was just what my internal frame needed.
I went around spraying inside all the open box section tubes to give them a protective coating.
As the frame was on the lawn, I didn't bother to put down a 'dust sheet' before I started, a minor error.
I quickly realised some sections of the framework are open at both ends & this stuff is very messy.
So now I have a random collection of black Waxoyl patches on my lawn, oops. :rolleyes:

Storage Space:
I spent a couple of hours on Sunday just rearranging the Spitfire / Cordite parts in the Summer House.
I am simply running out of places to put things at the moment & it is very frustrating to say the least.
I know things will improve as the build progresses and these parts find a new home fitted to my Cordite.
But at least for now the tidy up exercise has given me a little more room to manoeuvre in.

Hand Brake Mounting Body Panel:
I started the process of cleaning the 2nd hand body shell panel I got from Spitfire Graveyard.
Another messy job that didn't do another part of my lawn any favours either (I'm a slow learner :wink: ).
There is a very small section of rust that appears to have eaten through which I will need to sort out.
I will also need to cut off some of the excess metal, but that can wait until I have test fitted it.
Here is the 'Before' photo and I'd include the 'After' ones when I've finished sorting this out.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Ua...E=w360-h270-no

Ebay Update:
My next items for sale will be the leather seat covers (a re-list), 2 door sill plates & the car heater.
I managed to get to the Post Office to weight the covers & sills, so I can now offer UK postage this time.
But the heater + all its associated bits & pieces will initially be a collection only item.
If I can get half decent prices for these, I will list my remaining parts as a job lot starting at 99p to clear.
I've already recovered 75% of my donor car's cost and will post details of all my sales when complete.

I think that brings me up to date for everything that was going on over the weekend.
But a major project milestone was reached last night when the body shell was collected.

Body Shell:
Yes, 42 days after I removed the last bolt holding the body shell to the chassis, it is finally gone. :cool:
In the absence of any lifting gear, it was a case of all hands on deck for a manual lift & manoeuvre.
There was the buyer, his dad & two friends + me & the recovery truck driver, which made 6 in total.
Thankfully we didn't have to carry it far and in the end it only took a few minutes to get it loaded.
Sorry the photos aren't great due to the fact it is getting dark so early these days. :icon_sad:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a6...g=w640-h480-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Sw...w=w640-h480-no

Rolling Chassis:
At last, the backbone of my Cordite build is revealed, again apologies for the lack of a decent photo.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/C2...s=w640-h480-no

But on first impressions, it all looks pretty good to me, although clearly it needs a major clean!
I was expecting that, given the fact it had been languishing in a barn for years before I got it. :rolleyes:

As a temporary measure, I've rested the front half of the frame in place to support the master cylinders.
( I had left them both connected as they were all working fine before I removed the pedals. )
Whilst it was too dark to see clearly, it appears the frame & chassis holes are in the right ball park.

General Sammio Body Shell Question:
I know a key part of the Sammio re-body inspection process is that the new body must be removable.
But has anyone actually removed their Sammio body after it was bonded to the frame & floors?

If the frame needed some "encouragement" to fit, would the bonding & fibre glassing hold it in place?
Or would the frame spring back into its original shape if unbolted, breaking the bodywork as it did so?

I actually have the photo below from Mister Towed's framework "encouragement" in mind.
Clearly it would be much easier to paint / seal the underside of the body shell if it was off the chassis.
But I wouldn't even consider doing this if I was putting the whole body shell structure at risk.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...ion/003-15.jpg

Next Steps:
We have loads of our friends & their children coming round for a BBQ / lunch on the 22nd Sept.
So I have a long list of chores to get the house & garden looking ship shape before everyone arrives.
Part of my tidying up will involve moving the rear half of the frame from back garden to front drive.
So I should get a chance to do a very basic test fit of the frame & then throw the Cordite body on top.
Then I can pull my Spitfire car cover over the top and instantly achieve a "tidied up" look. :icon_wink:

So whilst I am unlikely to make much real progress in the next two weeks, I'm still pretty happy.
I feel I've finally reached the point where I'm not dismantling a Spitfire, but building a Cordite. :cool:

Until next time, take care, Paul. :)

Mister Towed 11th September 2012 18:17

Well done Paul, remember, even slow progress is progress.

I remember that picture of my frame. Good Lord it was a ba$tard to fit!

I think the point with the removeable body is that that's one of the requirements to avoid the dreaded IVA test - that you must be able to remove the body from the chassis in future if necessary. Nobody says you ever actually have to do that though! The trick is to get your chassis fully sorted before you bond the body onto the frame, then it'll never be an issue. Anyway, carry on with your build as and when you can and keep posting the pictures. :)

MoriniMan 11th September 2012 19:18

Quote:

If the frame needed some "encouragement" to fit, would the bonding & fibre glassing hold it in place?
Or would the frame spring back into its original shape if unbolted, breaking the bodywork as it did so?
Metals have an elastic limit or yield point below which they just spring back.

Go beyond this point and they'll not spring back to the original position, they will still spring back though.

redratbike 11th September 2012 22:13

But the heater + all its associated bits & pieces will initially be a collection only item

see below ,list a courier for p+p should help shift it better



Up to 10kg: for 7.14 (3-5 days)

Offering delivery in 3-5 days, MyHermes costs 7.14 for items between 5-10kg.

.

Up to 30kg: from 8.99 (1-2 days)

If you've a bigger parcel, weighing in at up to 30kg, ParcelsPlease* charges 8.99 via UPS standard service in 1-2 days. Note that it'll cost more if the parcel's bigger than about 53cm x 53cm x 53cm

Paul L 14th September 2012 18:33

MoriniMan & Mister Towed: - Thanks for the replies gentlemen.
I'll form a plan when I know how well my frame lines up with the chassis.
It all else fails I will just have to paint/seal around the prop. shaft, etc.

Redratbike - Thanks for the courier info.
Although I hope collecting the heater might help me sell other small bits.

Hopefully I'll get a large chuck of my domestic chores done this weekend.
And with a bit of luck still have time to test fit the frame. :pray:

Have a good one, Paul. :)

redratbike 15th September 2012 11:28

No worries..... I use couriers al the time now with the bits I sell,none of this..it didn't arrive can I have a refund .

It's a cut throat business,a friend managed to send an old mini gearbox to Greece on a half pallet for 8.50!!!!!!M!M

Paul L 16th September 2012 16:21

I've spent the bulk of the weekend working in the garden & general house tidying.
Part of that involved moving Cordite parts from the back garden to the front drive.
So I have a little bit of progress to report...

Cleaning:
I gave the Rolling Chassis a quick "wash & brush up" to get the bulk of the dust & dirt off.
But I need to get some more 'Gunk' to sort out the engine, clutch housing, gearbox, etc.
I also hope going round these with a torque wrench will stop the various 'weeping' points.
At some point I will need to clean the drive itself as that has become a big drip trap. : (

However, cleaning & daylight gives a much better impression of what remains of my donor.
Don't tell you know who that there is some over spray to deal with on the chassis too. ; )

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3Y...U=w640-h480-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/n5...=w1151-h863-no

Internal Framework & Body Work:
This was all done in a bit of a rush just to tidy up & will be done properly another day.
But it was still a good chance to get a better idea of what I need to do in the future.

Before I tried to fit the rear frame I needed to remove the cross brace added for transportation.
After years of borrowing angle grinders from my mate, I finally bought a small one of my own.
So whilst not strictly a true cost of the build, it is something very useful to have around.
I will keep the "off cut" as I'm sure it will come in handy later on in the build somewhere.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7494.jpg

Now I had rested the front frame on the chassis when the body shell was removed.
In daylight it is clear that all the holes do not line up, but I think this should be an easy fix.
The rear frame only has two fixing points pre-drilled for the raised rear mounting points.
Again, I don't think it will take much work to get them bolted into place either.
Based on other builds I think you drill holes to bolt the frame to the main chassis rail.

Here is DonnySoutherner's frame with bolts through it at the front.
( There are a matching pair at the back end of the frame on his build too. )

http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/...okebattery.jpg

In the mean time, here are both my frames just resting in place:

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7495.jpg

The first question I have is does the frame re-use the original Spitfire rubber mountings?
There were a mixture of plain rubber & rubber with metal "caps" on my donor.
Whilst one was missing (probably stuck to body shell), I've found a new one in a box of bits.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7490.jpg

The answer to this question will help me with my next issue, which is the fuel line.
If the rear frame sits directly on the chassis, the fuel line will need to be lowered.
The line currently sits on the side of the main chassis rail & the rear frame just hits it.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7496.jpg

As we were in a rush I simply used zip ties to hold the front & back roughly in place.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7497.jpg

I assume the two parts of the frame should be joined together before final fitting.
Because my rough & ready fixing meant that I couldn't line up the top & bottom brackets.
( Something that I am sure will not be a problem when I have time to look at it. )
Although it does appear that AndyP57 has a different bracket on his frame??

Here are my top and bottom brackets:

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7509.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7510.jpg

And here are the only photos I could find of the frames joined together.

http://www.sammio.co.uk/images/DSCF0274.jpg

http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...a/FrameOn3.jpg

I just need to make sure I get the two frame parts on the correct side of each other.
Even though the frame wasn't quite right, it was time to put the body on.
Unfortunately it quickly became clear the frame had a knock on impact on this.
I couldn't get the dash or the bottom of the front bulk head in place.
But wasn't going to force, or start cutting, anything at this stage.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/9n...E=w640-h480-no

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7498.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7499.jpg

That was as much as I had time for yesterday, but I did some more this morning.
I moved the front foot wells, gearbox cover & hand brake mount to rest in place.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/IX...U=w640-h480-no

As there is no where to mount the rear exhaust pipes (yet) I just left them on the ground.
This was to give me a rough idea how far they would stick out beyond the bodywork.
They are not too bad, although I still might shorten the single mid section pipe a tad.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7506.jpg

Finally I put the bonnet on, but quickly remembered the front chassis rails are in the way.
But it couldn't stay in the garden, so I held it in place with some 'tie down' straps.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7504.jpg

Which was good enough for me to be able to pull the cover over the top.
Even though it is only temporary, this has been a big help in 'tidying up'.

[Rolf Harris] Can you tell what it is yet? [/Rolf Harris]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/cZ...A=w639-h479-no

I've been updating these words & photos as I've been going along.
But I still have more domestic chores to finish today, so I'll leave it at that for now.
I'm not going to touch the car now until after our big bash next Saturday.

Until then, take care, Paul. :)

davecymru 16th September 2012 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul L (Post 35184)
<out of context>... I simply used zip ties to hold the front & back roughly in place. < /out of context>

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7497.jpg

That'll be fine like that, just put a smidge of tigerseal on it for added security and what can possibly go wrong! :)

Note for people without a sense of humour: the above is a joke!!


Apart from that, it's looking good matey and it won't be long now before the "big" steps are done and it'll really start taking shape!

Mister Towed 16th September 2012 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by davecymru (Post 35187)
That'll be fine like that, just put a smidge of tigerseal on it for added security and what can possibly go wrong! :)

Note for people without a sense of humour: the above is a joke!!


Apart from that, it's looking good matey and it won't be long now before the "big" steps are done and it'll really start taking shape!

Tigerseal? Bit excessive, that. There's no point in over-engineering something that Pritt'll stick...

Nice to see a Cordite coming together, and don't worry about the little things that don't line up - after a bit of beard scratching there's always a straightforward way to fettle and fit them in the end :)

Paul L 23rd September 2012 14:49

Progress Report:
No real progress to report as I spent the week tidying the house & garden.
Yesterday was perfect day for our BBQ with friends and given today's rain, very lucky too.
My 'thrown together to tidy up' Cordite made it easier for them to understand the project.
I made the mistake of rashly promising it would be on the road by this time next year.
At which point one of my mates opened a "book" on when it would actually be done. :rolleyes:
Hopefully the money laid against a 2014 finish will not be collected!!

So the following is more about me 'thinking out loud' and planning my next steps...

Marine Ply Panels Required:
Whilst the body is still on temporarily, I will think about the plywood panels I need to make.
AndyP57 has provided a good example of what is required around the front foot wells.

http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...a/P8190164.jpg

And most build threads show how the internal cockpit walls are constructed, e.g. Mr T.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...ion/003-34.jpg

But I have struggled to find clear information on what goes behind the rear cockpit.
I know DonnySoutherner has reused an old section of Spitfire bodywork for his Cordite.

http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/...underframe.jpg

But I get the impression that many builders simply leave this rear section "empty" so to speak.
Although I haven't fitted the petrol tank yet, instinctively I think this needs some protection.
Others have storage built in behind the seats, but I wasn't planning to based on KISS principles.
However, some form of rear wheel arch seems like a good idea, but what do I know? :icon_wink:

So I'll have a think & play around with some cardboard templates to see what will fit where.
Then I can work out how much marine ply I need to buy and start the process of making the panels.
I will also steal DonnySoutherner's idea of a sunken battery box made out of ply while I'm at it.

Brakes:
Unbeknown to me, the Cordite was not designed for brake master cylinders from late 1500 Spitfires.
My twin pipe master cylinder is both too tall & too long when compared to the space available. :icon_sad:

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7413.jpg

AndyP57 has resolved this by switching back to the single line system on earlier models.
However, I just can't bring myself to downgrade the braking system of a car that is already 32 years old.
So I need to find a solution that will allow me to retain the existing master cylinder.

One option would be to lower the pedal mounting plate a little & adjust the bulkhead to match.
Interestingly, my Spitfire donor had a recess built into the bulk head for the master cylinder.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7414.jpg

So my Cordite bulkhead would need to go "down & back" if that makes sense.
Pros - Leaves the bonnet line as originally intended.
Cons - Some major re-working of parts required.

Another option would be to add some sort of "Wembley Bubble" to raise the bonnet & bulkhead.
Pros - Leaves the internal framework as originally intended.
Cons - May look major league ugly!

I need to get this "right first time" so I will give it more thought before trying to fix it.

Rear Spring Lowering Block:
This is another one of those areas where I am not 100% sure what I am supposed to be doing.
I thought a lowering block was required as a Cordite will weigh a lot less than the donor Spitfire.
However, I see that AndyP57 is leaving the rear suspension untouched in his demonstrator.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyP57 (Post 34146)
... I've not put any lowering blocks in mine (And may not do yet) as I want to experiment with wheel sizes to fill the arch, leaving the geometry of the swing spring as it was designed ...

I was never looking for a "low to the ground" racing car stance & had hoped to avoid cutting springs.
As given all the speed bumps around here, I'd run the risk of being "beached" while driving. :rolleyes:
Even though I have just thrown the body on, it does look to be riding too high at the moment.
Although I still have to add the petrol tank, seats, wood panel, etc. + driver which will lower it a bit.
So I'll keep an eye on Andy's build and see if his approach works which would make my build easier.

DonnySoutherner's top tip was to sort out the rear suspension before fixing the frame & body.
So in the short term I will just get on with other parts of my "To Do" list and come back to this later on.

So lots to do and think about, so I'll leave it at that for now.

Cheers, Paul. :)

Replies:
Dave Cymru - :D
I now have a 'Wallace & Grommit' sidecar image of my Cordite taking its first sharp turn...
With me & my zip tied frame & body going one way, whilst the engine & rolling chassis goes another!

Mister Towed - "Beard scratching"?
I need to grow a beard to build a Cordite?
Wow, there really is a lot about this car building process that I just simply didn't know. :icon_twisted:

Jokes aside, I'm sure the framework will not take too long to sort out, as it seems pretty close already.

Mister Towed 23rd September 2012 16:38

I'd leave the master cylinder where it is and put a scoop or bulge over it. I was planning to use the plastic packaging from an Easter egg as a template to make a blister if my servo had been too high. It won't look odd, all the old racing cars had them.

As for lowering the suspension. In the words of a well known sports clothing manufacturer's advertising department, Just Do It! Mine's very low and it sailed over a bunch of speed bumps on the way to the DVLA office in Peterborough without any grounding issues. Take a look at the clearance under a modern car - the Saab 9-3 I recently parted with only had 100mm ground clearance, which is about the same as I have in the Spyder.

Looking forward to seeing your car progress, I'll put a fiver on Easter 2013 as a finish date. Oh, but I want odds of 500,000 to one... :eyebrows:

MoriniMan 23rd September 2012 17:24

One solution to the brakes would be to fit a pair of the standard pattern cylinders and brackets along with a balance bar.

You don't need a fancy adjustable bar, a bit of flat plate can do the job. Adjustable bars actually have to be drilled and locked with pins for IVA compliance.

You could also remove the integral reservoir and use a remote one to shave off some height.

WorldClassAccident 23rd September 2012 19:58

The g46 has the same issue with the brake servo being mounted so it fouls the front wing. Fortunately it is a remote servo so easy to re-locate

donnysoutherner 25th September 2012 18:03

....But I have struggled to find clear information on what goes behind the rear cockpit.
I know DonnySoutherner has reused an old section of Spitfire bodywork for his Cordite.....


Not updated my page for a while but watch this space. The big advantage of puitting floor in place (apart from rigidity) is that i am now planning to have boot on my Cordite. More on that soon, when I eventually find my camera (yes, seriously)

Paul L 27th September 2012 21:08

Mister Towed - I'm following the work you are doing on your own bonnet for 'bulge building' ideas.
Good point on ground clearance, I'll make a decision on the lowering block ASAP to avoid any delays.

MoriniMan - Thanks for the suggestions, I'll look into remote reservoirs (I've used bikes with them).

WorldClassAccident - Finding suitable homes for everything does seem to be part of the fun.

DonnySoutherner - I look forward to your build update, with hopefully some photos.
I saw your posts about the re-body inspection, so figured you were making progress.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Quick Question:
I hope to re-route the existing hard fuel line to the petrol tank's new home in the Cordite framework.
( The previous owner fitted a brand new line and it seems a shame to waste it. )
I will need to change some existing bends, add some new bends & shorten the pipe length.
I've seen this 'cheap & cheerful' tool set on Ebay & wondered if it would be up to the job?

Tube Cutter 1/8-1.1/8in (3-28mm)
3 Flexible Tube Benders 1/4 5/16 And 3/8in
Tube Flaring Tool Fits 3/16 1/4 5/16 3/8 1/2 And 5/8in.


http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/x...ols/ct1374.jpg

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The current mini monsoon season reminds me why an outdoor build was a dumb idea. :rolleyes:
But it should be dry at the weekend which will allow me to keep chipping away.

Cheers, Paul. :)

davecymru 27th September 2012 23:28

That pipe cutter and bender will be fine, but tbh I bought one of those cheap flaring tools and it was nothing but trouble! In the end I bought a nice (yet still fairly cheap) one from car builder solutions and i'm really glad I did as it was superb and saved a massive amount of faffing!

This is the one i've got,
http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/product/B...ring_Kit_FLARE
it's a very nice bit of kit and should last many years!

Paul L 29th September 2012 20:05

Pedal Mounting Plate:
Although I still don't know what I'm doing with my brakes yet (see update below)...
I'd looked at this plate when I was painting the tops of the pedals & knew there was an issue.
There was one hole missing and two of the existing holes didn't quite line up properly.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7517.jpg

Even I am capable of drilling a new hole and enlarging the other ones, so another job done.
I am just grateful I remembered to fix it before fitting the body.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/lQ...A=w640-h480-no

Internal Framework Fitting - Take 2:
Initially I just zip wired the frame to the chassis to temporarily hold it in place to "tidy up".
This time I removed all the bodywork resting on top to have a proper look at what was required.

First job was finding a way of locating the seat belt mounting points on the chassis with the frame on.
Unfortunately, the frame covers these holes completely, so you can't tell where to drill the frame.
This needed nothing more than tape on the edges of the chassis & a simple cardboard template.
( Sorry the photo is a bit blurred :rolleyes: )

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7524.jpg

These seat belt mounting points will also fix the location of my hand brake mounting panel too.
But I will not start drilling the holes in the frame until I have got all the other fixing points sorted.
So the next job was comparing my chassis bolts to the holes in the frame & enlarging where required.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/8s...Y=w640-h480-no

I started with the rear frame and managed to get both the rear chassis bolts in place.
I am re-using the rubber washers from my donor during this test fitting, still don't know if I should.
Next it was time to join the two halves of the framework together and this was a little confusing.
The bottom sections of frame work seemed to join up OK (this is the passenger side)...

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7526.jpg

Where the tops of the two frames should align and be joined together is less clear.
On the passenger side I assume the two edges line up and a hole is drilled in the rear frame.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7527.jpg

But on the driver's side there is an additional bracket that is not on the other side.
So is this where the two halves should be bolted together instead?
As it currently stands the hole in this extra bracket doesn't line up with any other hole.
Obviously I could simply line up the two edges (as per passenger side) & drill a hole.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7528.jpg

Rather than do something wrong, I moved on to bolting down the front half of the frame.
I got both the bolts at the cockpit end of the frame in place which was a good start.
But I came up a little short when I tried to fit the front end of the frame in place.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7529.jpg

This is why knowing how the top halves of the two frames join together would help.
I could make the front frame close to the chassis hole if I "hinge" it forward a bit.
But I don't want to get the bottom of the frame work in if this messes up the middle.
Despite following Misted Towed's advice of 'beard scratching' I am a little lost.
I know getting the frame in square (ish) is important, but square to what?

It is not that I don't like jigsaw puzzles...
Its just that is would be nice if I could actually see the photo on the box now & again. :icon_wink:

As my time was limited that is as far as I got with fitting the frame today.

Brake Master Cylinder:
I knew I had some issues with fitting this in the fibre glass bulkhead.
But today it became clear that I'd missed another problem which is the frame itself.
If the pedal mounting plate stays where it is the back of the M/C will hit the frame. :icon_sad:

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7530.jpg

Internal Panelling:
I did take some approximate measurements for the initial panels I need to make.
- Front foot well surrounds x 2
- Cockpit sides with door cut outs x 2
- Cockpit rear wall x 1

I will do some rough sketches to scale to give me an idea of how much ply I need.
Unfortunately the best value sheets (2440x1220mm) don't fit in the back of my car.
And the local store doesn't cut them on site, so I might have to go to one that does.
But I would need to know the sizes to cut it down to before I do.

So I think it might be 'Blue Peter' time again to layout scale paper templates.
These would give me a 'tailor's pattern' on the scale equivalent of the big sheets.

Project Timing:
In a few weeks time my project will pass the 6 months mark.
I still feel that I have made good progress given the limited time I've had available.
However, what is clear is that progress will continue to be slow in the months to come.
I have now simply accepted this and will not get frustrated by it.
I will keep chipping away and see how what happens.

Off for a family lunch with "granny" tomorrow, so not sure I'll get anything done.

So until next time, take care, Paul. :)

Replies:
Dave Cymru - Thanks for the feedback & the link.

Charman.tech 30th September 2012 06:54

But square to what?
 
As others have suggested this week and how we aligned our frames and body we established a centre line, both front to back and side to side.

Which enabled us to half any differences so rather than bolt one side and have 20mm short the other we +10mm & -10mm the difference and were able to line the frames centre to the chassis/body.

Hope that helps and does state the bloody obvious.

Impressed by your level of workmanship and approach all with out a garage? to you have a workshop? winters coming.

MoriniMan 30th September 2012 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul L (Post 35559)

Brake Master Cylinder:
I knew I had some issues with fitting this in the fibre glass bulkhead.
But today it became clear that I'd missed another problem which is the frame itself.
If the pedal mounting plate stays where it is the back of the M/C will hit the frame. :icon_sad:

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7530.jpg

If you go the remote reservoir route the it looks like the cylinder will go in if you mount it horizontally. The cylinder bracket would need modifying along with the pedal above the pivot (to keep the pushrod geometry correct). Not difficult if you're confident in your welding.

Mister Towed 30th September 2012 08:10

I'd be inclined to modify the frame (and bonnet if necessary) to accommodate the brake master cylinder and resovoir in their standard positions. The frame only supports the bodywork and provides brackets to hang things from, it isn't part of the chassis structure so it won't cause any safety issues with the handling etc, even if your welds fail. But if your brake pedal shears off...

I cut and re-welded my frame just to allow my instruments to go where I wanted them -

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...ion/001-46.jpg

Good luck finding a solution that works for your set-up. :peace:

Paul L 30th September 2012 18:40

Family day today, but was able to grab a few minutes before the sun went down.

Petrol Tank:
As part of my frame test fitting & general "mock up" I rested the petrol tank in place.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7537.jpg

If I align the tank with the bottom of the frame work, the fuel line feed fouls the frame.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7538.jpg

I know this can be adjusted, but I didn't have to worry about that as there was a bigger issue.
With the tank at the bottom, the mounting points at the 4 corners didn't line up with the frame.
So I lifted the tank so it was flush with the top edge of the frame instead.
This will allow me to use the 4 mounting holes on the top edge of the tank.
( Which means the fuel line feed pipe is also clear as is. )

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7539.jpg

The bottom 2 corner mounting points can also be used as they line up with the frame.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7540.jpg

Which just leaves the top 2 corners not being used as the are too far out of alignment.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7541.jpg

I think there were only 5 bolts holding it originally, so 6 bolts should do it (touch wood).

Hand Brake Mounting Panel:
There is still plenty of room behind the petrol tank for my 2nd hand panel to fit under.
It is sitting very high in the photo below as I still have to trim off the bottom edges.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7542.jpg

I need to be very careful when I take the angle grinder to this panel.
Thankfully I remembered what the bolt hole in this photo is for before I started cutting...

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7543.jpg

It is the pivot mount for the hand brake mechanism & I'd have been stuffed without it!

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7544.jpg

Cheers, Paul. :)

Replies:

Charman.Tech - I think centre lines will be a big help in convincing me things are straight.
I will be putting the chassis on stands before I do my final bolting together to get it level.
A sloping driveway is not a big help when it comes to lining things up. :rolleyes:

Unfortunately I don't have a workshop either & do fear winter! :icon_sad:
"Clean" jobs like wiring I can bring indoors, or use the Summer House in our garden.
But everything else has to be done outdoors which really wastes time.
Its the bringing out & putting away of all tools, parts, etc. that is a real pain.
Currently the body & bonnet are just left along side while I work on the frame.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7536.jpg

MoriniMan - Currently I have no welding skills at all, but I know two good mates who do.
I am currently making a list of questions to get their advice on before I make any final decisions.

Mister Towed - I'd already noted the way you re-arranged the frame behind your dash.
Which is why your build thread is such a great source of information to me. :cool:
The more detail there is the better as far as I am concerned (which explains this thread too).

MoriniMan 30th September 2012 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul L (Post 35591)

MoriniMan - Currently I have no welding skills at all, but I know two good mates who do.
I am currently making a list of questions to get their advice on before I make any final decisions.

I've built complete pedal assemblies from scratch, so modifying a pedal hold no fears. I'd be happy to help. I've lost count of the number of Triumph pedals I've welded up and re-drilled to repair wear.

Paul L 2nd October 2012 21:04

Pedal Mounting Plate - Part 2:
Despite taking an extra photo of the area, I forgot to mention this in my last post. :rolleyes:

The front ends of the pedal mountings stick out beyond the edge of the mounting plate / framework.
I haven't test fitted the body since mounting these, but I think they require more room than is available.
( Note: They were only mounted so I could sort out the holes & will be removed again soon. )

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7518.jpg

I remembered DonnySoutherner having some sort of pedal clearance issues on his build.
So I re-read the thread and he had to cut the front of the pedal mounting brackets off.

Quote - Modified pedal bracket (front cut away otherwise won't fit).

http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/...albrackets.jpg

The only other photos I've seen of this area come from AndyP57's demonstrator build.
I can see his pedals are also mounted from above & do not use the front bulk head bolts.

http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...a/P8240171.jpg

http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...a/P8280174.jpg

Either way, I'm pretty sure that 6 bolts through the metal plate will be more than enough to hold them.
I just need to decide whether the pedal mounts or the bulkhead will need to be "adjusted".

Plywood Panels:
I ended up using a spreadsheet to layout the maximum size of each cockpit panel required....

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7545.jpg

It looks like they will all fit on a single large sheet (2.44m x 1.22m) with a little bit left over.
There also some handy "cut here" points that will leave me with 4 sections that will fit in my car.
I'll make more accurate cardboard templates when the time comes to take account of the "fiddly bits".
I'll also double check my measurements to ensure I haven't made a howling error in the layout.

I also realised that I was mixing up Exterior ply with Marine ply and they are not quite the same thing.
I might post a question on the forum about the various ways different builders have sealed their panels.

Cheers, Paul. :)

Replies:
MoriniMan - Thanks for the offer, I will definitely give you a shout if I get stuck.

Paul L 6th October 2012 19:32

Petrol Tank:
I put some tape on the frame to mark the holes required to hold the petrol tank in place.
I will then centre these holes (top to bottom) in the frame to maximise metal around them.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7550.jpg

I need to extend the mounting holes at the bottom corners of the tank.
This will then allow me to drill holes in the middle of the frame for better support.

Plywood Panels - Continued:
I did re-measure the cockpit panel sizes & I'm now happy that my previous pattern/layout will work. :cool:
( I had added a generous safety margin to each measurement to ensure I had enough. )

So I moved on to looking at the area behind the rear cockpit panel to see what might work.
I wanted to have some basic protection for the petrol tank & some sort of rear arch structure too.
The other thing I wanted to do was provide additional support for the area behind the seats.
This follows the photo of Misted Towed's Incredible Bonding Blob! ...

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...ion/003-32.jpg

His logic was that people will instinctively lift themselves out of the car by pressing down on the body.
That makes sense to me, so I plan to do something similar, although I will not have a luggage box.
There is however a handy four sided shape of frame work above the Cordite petrol tank...

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7553.jpg

If you compare the two photos, the petrol tank is much closer in the Cordite vs. the Spyder layout.
I guess this should not be a real surprise as one started with 2 seats & the other with 4.

I just played around with some cardboard to see what would fit where.
Until I refit the body for further testing, I'm not sure how much clearance I have over this area.
So one option would be to rest a panel on top of the frame which would provide the support required.
Although I would have to leave some sort of hole for the filler pipe.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7554.jpg

One option would be to put panels around most of the tank by following the shape of the frame work...

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7555.jpg

I tested cardboard below the frame for under the petrol tank, but there will be a gap above the frame.
These wooden wedges are slightly bigger than the gap that will be available (tank will not be at an angle).

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7556.jpg

So more beard scratching required before I decide on a final layout.

Mock Up:
The whole point of looking at things now is to avoid problems in the future.
Another area that has caught my eye is the clutch pedal clearance.
I know it is not currently connected, but the pedal hits the front foot well.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7557.jpg

And that is before I build this up with the panel required to tie this in with the body.
( As per AndyP57's demonstrator build. )

http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...a/P8190164.jpg

I will temporarily re-connect the clutch to test this again another day.
Only then will I know if it is an issue or not.
Especially as lowering the pedal mounting plate was one solution to my brake M/C problem. :rolleyes:

Hand Brake Mounting Panel:
Having only just realised the significance of the bolt hole in this panel...
Imagine my despair when it fell off after a very innocuous knock while moving it. :icon_sad:

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7549.jpg

I will add this to my list of welding jobs required and sort it out another day.
The only good news is that it came away now and not during my first MOT test.

Despite the small set back, I decided to continue preparing this panel for use.
First step was taking my angle grinder to the excess metal forming the lower "lip".
This will allow the panel to sit flush with the Cordite fame work and my lowered floor pans.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7559.jpg

Then I needed to cut out small sections from the rear to allow for the Cordite frame work.
I didn't want to use the grinder after 6 pm, so I will test fit & finish these cut outs tomorrow.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7560.jpg

Engine Re-Starting:
I am very conscious that the last time I had my Spitfire engine running was 21st July.
After that I had to disconnect everything so that I was able to remove the body shell.
It is also clear that a lot of work is required to get the car to even a 'Go Kart'/'Moon Rover' stage.
So I will have a little think about the minimum requirement to restart the engine in a few weeks.
Hopefully this will reduce the chances of any problems associated with leaving the car outside.

Off the top of my head, this will involve the following tasks:
- Battery - Need to establish where I will earth this to & extend cables if required.
- Ignition - Don't need to have steering in place, just have section of column with the key handy.
- Wiring - Just re-connect the minimum number of wires for the engine to run.
- Choke & Throttle Cables - Just need to be connected at the engine end & be 'pullable'.
- Petrol - I need a temporary arrangement until the frame is fixed in & hard line re-routed.

Overall Progress:
I am trying to remain positive and remember that every hour worked is an hour closer to finishing.
However, I also have to accept that this project is going to required a significant number of hours.

Still, with a bit of luck, I'll get a few of those hours in tomorrow.

Cheers, Paul. :)

Mister Towed 6th October 2012 20:38

That's the spirit Paul - all progress is a step in the right direction. From Sammio building experience, even when the progress involves deciding to undo a week's work and change direction completely, like I did with my dash mounted handbrake that I couldn't make work, it's still a step towards finishing the car the way you want it.

I'm very happy with my bonding paste blob under the rear deck. It's exactly where you naturally put your hand when you climb in and if you leave that panel flexible the paint's bound to crack sooner or later. With it properly supported you can get in and out with confidence.

Btw, I modified my Spyder frame away from stadard spec. quite a bit at the back end - the fuel tank usually sits where my luggage bay is, between the rear bulkhead and rear spring - but mine sits in a fabricated frame behind the rear axle. Can't see anyone modifying a Caterham frame like that somehow...

Anyway, keep plugging away and before you know it, like me, you'll be at the point where your car's roadworthy. Almost. :peace:

AndyP57 7th October 2012 07:48

Hi Paul, Just one thing I've noticed is that you have your tank mounted the original way. I've mounted mine backwards so that the fuel filler goes in the gap in the frame, the feed is forward of it and the sender is accessible through a hole in the bulkhead. In practice, should make no difference to operation but for a supportability aspect, makes it easier should anything go wrong.

Paul L 7th October 2012 17:27

We decided to have a family "lazy day" today, so lots of just hanging out & then going out for lunch.
Despite having to oil the garden furniture before covering it for the winter I did get a some time on the car.

Petrol Tank - Take 2:
Following AndyP57's comments I swapped the tank around & the petrol cap is in a better position.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7563.jpg

I had tried it in this position before, but couldn't remember why I didn't stick with it.
Then I noticed the tank hits the frame in one corner & this is why I swapped it around the first time.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7562.jpg

However, I can get around this by adding a few washers when bolting top of the tank to the frame.
This would give me the small clearance I need to fit an original rubber strip in between tank & frame.

Hand Brake Mounting Panel - Continued:
This is the part of the frame that I needed to make cut outs from the panel to clear.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7574.jpg

In an attempt to remove the least amount of metal possible I made this a much harder job. :rolleyes:
I have to do my angle grinding at the bottom of the garden behind the summer house.
This avoids sending sparks over nearby cars if I did it in the front drive.
It also avoids me sending sparks on to the washing hanging on the line.
So I was back & forth from the drive to the bottom of the garden like a yo-yo.
I should have just taken a huge chuck out right from the start and been done with it!

Anyway, I ended up with cut outs like this on either side of the panel (excuse poor photo).

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7573.jpg

This allow the panel to sit flush in position over the Cordite framework.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7570.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7571.jpg

Which in turn gives me a rough idea of how the rear cockpit panel might eventually look.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7575.jpg

Mock Up - Continued:
Previously I had this reply from Dave...

Quote:

Originally Posted by davecymru (Post 34695)
... the only bit that was an unknown for me was how to join my gearbox cover to the tunnel i had made, so it may be worth having a play and fabricating a basic solution while you've still got everything apart as when the body is on you end up doing some superb contortions when 'fettling' the interior :) ...

As I now look at the hand brake mounting panel, it seems longer that my original.
This is the gap between gearbox cover and the panel now:

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7572.jpg

But this was the gap before:
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7014.jpg

I was hoping to re-use the metal "bridge" between the two pieces.
So that is something I will keep an eye on when things are in their final positions.
As I said before, the whole point of testing things now is to see how it all fits together.

Until next time, take care, Paul. :)

Replies:
Mr T: - Thanks for the encouragement, you are living proof that chipping away works.
I had forgotten that you moved your petrol tank, but I will still copy your big blob idea.
AndyP57 - Thanks for the tip, I have taken your advice (see above).
If you ever get the chance to read back over some of my other posts, I'd value your input.
There are many things I don't want to mess up, like using rubber frame mounts, etc.

Paul L 14th October 2012 18:13

Internal Framework:
I fitted the radius arm brackets to the frame to ensure the spacing at this end was OK.
Driver's side went in with no problems, but the passenger side turned into a right 'mare.
My first issue was the holes in the frame were too close together...

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7579.jpg

But that was a simple job to fix by running a drill bit through the holes to widen them.
However, I just couldn't get the bolt through the bracket, bush & out the other side for ages.
I think I worked my way through the complete 'Profanisaurus' until I final got it in.
This would have been a 5 minute job with an extra pair of hands, but took me over an hour. :icon_sad:
Still at least I ended up with both arms in place at the end.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7580.jpg

Note:
Big adjustable spanner was one of my many 'leverage' tools, not used for tightening nuts!

I decided to join the top sections of the two frames together before I attempted to fix the front frame.
In the absence of any official guidance, I've assumed that the straight edges of both frames should line up.
So I took the plunge and drilled holes through each side of the rear frame and bolted both sides together.

Passenger Side:

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7581.jpg

Driver's Side:

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7582.jpg

Then I turned my attention to the front section of framework that had initially come up a bit short...

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7529.jpg

So I tried a little bit of gentle persuasion using nothing more than a pair of ratchet tie down straps.
I hooked one end to the Cordite frame & the other to the main cross rail at the front of the chassis.
I then tighten each strap alternatively one notch at a time to spread the tension more evenly (ish).

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7584.jpg

This approach initially seemed to be working & the passenger side finally slotted in to place.
I had to re-use one of the Spitfire's metal chassis / body shell washers on top of a rubber one.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7586.jpg

But the driver's side wouldn't line up for love, nor money, despite more quotes from the 'Profanisaurus'.
In the end, I had to admit defeat and drill another hole in the frame and bolt it in as best I could.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7585.jpg

It was only when I went to slacken off the straps that one ratchet "exploded" under the tension... oops.
"So don't try this at home kids." :icon_wink:

I know I still need to take some measurements to ensure the frame is sitting square on the chassis.
But I'm happy enough that is fits for now so that I can at least have another go at fitting the body.

I removed the straps holding the petrol tank in place to elongate the bottom corner mounting holes.
Excuse the poor photo...

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7588.jpg

I then put the tank back in place & adjusted it to give a best fit along the top edge & bottom corners.
I put some new tape on the frame & re-marked the holes required & then removed the tanks again.
( It occurred to me that is wasn't a good idea to centre holes in the frame independently of the tank. )
Then I drilled the 6 holes required in the frame...

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7589.jpg

I've used some normal nuts on the bolts for now, just to hold the tank in place for now.
After I finish test fitting stuff, I'll remove it again & paint it & then use Nyloc nuts to secure it.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7590.jpg

I put extra washers on the driver's side to give me the clearance I need between tank & frame.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7591.jpg

Again, excuse the poor photo...

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7593.jpg

As always I never seem to get as much done as I hoped to do.
But the motto of this build is any progress in better than no progress.

Until next time, take care, Paul. :)

garyh 14th October 2012 18:31

As always, enjoying your thread... Very detailed.

Mister Towed 14th October 2012 18:40

As with most things Sammio, fitting the frame is subject to sod's law - if the frame's square, then the chassis probably isn't, and if the chassis's square, you can guess the rest.

Take one small step at a time though and giant leaps are possible...

oxford1360 15th October 2012 08:07

Thanks for the great detail. It's really useful and interesting. Keep chipping away. No minute is truly wasted......it just feels like it sometimes!

Paul L 21st October 2012 15:54

Bloody Weather...
I've resigned myself to rain getting in the way of my build, but now the wind is picking on me too. :rolleyes:
Came home during the week to find the wind had tried to rip the car cover off my rolling chassis. :icon_sad:
The straps were pulled either side of the framework to between the wheels, turning the cover into a kite.
This resulted in a huge rip across the top of the cover, which I had to patch back together with tape.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/un...=w1151-h863-no

Under The Weather Too...
I am currently being fuelled by Beechams and Lucazade as I try to fend of a bug of some sort.
So I've had to rest this weekend and avoid 'playing' outside with the car. :icon_sad:
However, despite being on 'restricted duties', I could still get some small stuff done...

Petrol Tank Venting:
I posted a question about the venting pipe in my petrol tank & my filler cap here.
The last think I want to do is find out I've missed something simple late on in the build.

Shopping Update:
I put a small order in with Rimmer Bros.
- 2 x Headlight adjustment sets (The originals were letting down my restored headlight assemblies).
- Brake pedal stop light switch (After I managed to break my donor's original one :rolleyes:).

I went to B&Q Watford to pick up two 2.44 m x 1.22 m x 9 mm sheets of exterior plywood.
This was the nearest 'Superstore' that would cut the sheets into four for me.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/x4...s=w360-h270-no

This meant they fitted into the car with no real issues.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Dg...=w1151-h863-no

I cut them both the same size based on my previous layout for the cockpit area.
I know I haven't worked out what I need for the other panels yet, but I should be OK.

I've also started to order my first batch of construction materials.
- 3.5 Litres of U-Pol 'Easy One" body filler.
- Two lots of 2" x 10 metres heat wrap exhaust pipe bandage with metal ties.

I'm still working through Mister Towed's feedback to pick the following:
- Bonding paste.
- Fibreglass stuff.
- Extra resin to seal the plywood panels.

When that is ordered I think I will have more than enough to get me started anyway.

Ebay Update:
I hope to get my last remaining Spitfire donor parts on sale on Ebay shortly.
There just seems to have been other stuff getting in the way of me organising this before now.
Whilst I originally hoped to end up with a "free" donor, I am now quite relaxed about the net cost to me.
I know some builds have actually made a profit on their donors and I salute them for this. :cool:

Headlights:
One final "indoor" job that I was able to do was make a template for the headlight rubber seals.
Another simple "Blue Peter" job of cutting out a cardboard cereal box to the right size.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Nl...=w1151-h863-no

I will use this to ensure the holes in the bonnet for the headlights are cut out in the right place.
It will also show me where to drill two larger holes for the headlight adjustment screws.
I will leave the holes to mount the headlight themselves until I offer up the shell to the bonnet.

Next Steps:
Keep taking the medication and have another early night so that I recover ASAP. :rolleyes:

Until next time, take care, Paul. :)

Replies:
GaryH & Oxford1360 - Thanks gents, hopefully this helps potential builders see what is involved.
I know I find the detail in other build threads helps me to work out what I am supposed to be doing!
Mr T - You are right about expecting a bit of give & take between the chassis & frame.
Mind you, from your experiences, there will probably be some give & take in the body shell & bonnet too!

Paul L 27th October 2012 10:42

Restricted Duties:
I'm still trying to fully recover from the bugs that are conspiring to strike me down. :icon_sad:
But I do hope to spend a bit of time on the car this weekend, I'll just need to wrap up warm.

So here is a very quick catch up until I have something better to report...

Project Time Line:
My project has now passed...
- 6 months since I bought my donor
- 4 months since the kit arrived
- 3 months since the engine last started
Not sure how many actual hours I have managed to put in during that time, but clearly not enough.
I quickly abandoned my initial idea of keeping an accurate log of hours worked as it took too long! :rolleyes:

But the real question is how many hours can I put in during the next 6 months now that winter is coming?
I am conscious that I am in a bit of a holding pattern at the moment while I try to form a cunning build plan.
Mind you, I can't actually finish my 'mock up' work until my floor pans arrive (something Andy is working on).

I also want to ensure my "To Do" list covers everything, but more importantly, that it is done in the right order.
My time is limited, so the last thing I want to do is undo any completed work because I missed something.
For example, I will check the clutch pedal (see previous post) before bonding in the front foot well.
As it will be much easier to fix any potential clearance issues while parts are simply resting in place.

The good news story on my project plan is there is not much to do on the Spitfire rolling chassis.
The main job will be fitting the rear spring lowering block, which I think will be required, but still TBC.
Everything else was done by the previous owner, I don't even need to buy things like brake pads. :cool:

Shopping Update:
All the stuff I ordered last week has arrived (apart from one headlight adjuster kit on back order)...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/WM...=w1151-h863-no

I also bought a second hand Renault Megane header tank from Ebay during the week & that's here too.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KQ...=w1151-h863-no

This will be used as the traditional Sammio "fix" for connecting the original heater pipes without an air lock.
I'd like to order a wider, high performance radiator, but want to see the space available under the bonnet first.

I've also finally ordered the things I need to start bonding & fibre glassing my Cordite together. :cool:
I used the same supplier as Mister Towed, Glasplies, and they were very friendly over the phone.
Hopefully there is now a big box on its way with the following inside:
- 2.5kg of bonding paste
- 5kg fibre glass CSM roll 600 gsm (approx. 8 sqm)
- 2 x 5kg of lay up resin (for first batch of fibreglass work & to seal my plywood panels)
( The resin is supplied with a separate catalyst )
- Plus application rollers, acetone cleaner, measuring syringe, etc.
When I have a better idea of how much fibre glass I will be using, I might need some more resin.
But as 5kg was the smallest roll size they do, I've got more that enough to get started.

I've also just bought an old AA badge off Ebay like the ones others have fitted to their Sammios.
I know it seems odd to buy something for a grill that is also still on the 'missing in action' list.
But I am convincing myself that every job I complete, no matter how small, is still progress.

"Hump" Head Rest:
Great explanation & photo from Mister Towed on how a padded head rest would be attached.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...ion/002-66.jpg

Issues with the original Sammio trimmer at the time I ordered meant I didn't order one with my kit.
If I do decide to have one, I'll give these trimmers a call as they have done great work for Mr T. :cool:

Battery:
I plan to attempt to re-start my engine within the next few weeks, so I've got my battery on charge.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Wp...U=w360-h270-no

Quick Question:
Would it be OK to use a jump lead as a temporary earth cable just to start the engine?
I still need to finalise my new earthing point, the cable routing & therefore the length of cable required.

Next Steps:
I'd like to start lowering the fuel & brake lines along the main chassis beam.
As this would bring me closer to being able to finish bolting the frame in place.

Hopefully I'll have a better update before the weekend is out.

Cheers, Paul. :)

Paul L 30th October 2012 15:35

Last Weekend's Result:
Annoying Virus 1, Cordite Building 0. :icon_sad:
Despite my best intentions, I had to admit defeat & spent most of the weekend sleeping, or resting.

At least I was able to use the internet & I also watched 'A car is born' (recorded from TV) for inspiration.
Being stuck indoors also let me work on a photo submission for the 2013 Sammio calendar.
Obviously it will not be a finished car, but I'll post a copy of the photo here in the next day, or so.

I'm now off work for a few days to spend half term with my family.
I will not get a chance to do much before the weekend, but I did grab a few minutes earlier...

Clutch Pedal Clearance:
Previously, my 'mock up' / test fitting of parts highlighted a possible issue with the clutch pedal.
It appeared to hit the front foot well panel, but at the time it was not connected to the clutch.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ae...=w1151-h863-no

So I undid all the bolts temporarily holding the pedal bracket to the Cordite frame work.
Then I put them back in, this time bolting the clutch master cylinder bracket into place too.
After reconnecting the end of the pedal to the M/C, I had a working clutch pedal once more.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/1N...s=w360-h270-no

Now, I could see how far the pedal moved under normal working operation conditions.
The bad news is that not only does the pedal still hit the front foot well...
It would also go as far as the frame itself with the foot well removed completely.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qn...=w1151-h863-no

And that is before you add the extra layer of plywood on top to join the panel to the body.
So I think there needs to be a bit of the proverbial beard scratching to find a solution.

Brake Master Cylinder:
I knew I had clearance issues with the M/C, but the brake pedal may also foul like the clutch.
Anyway, one problem at a time, and I made a cardboard cut out to match the height of the M/C.
The M/C length would only fit if the frame behind the dash board was cut & re-joined around it.
Something similar to the job Mister Towed did on his frame to accommodate his instruments.
( See photo in his reply above. )
However, I will still need 4 cm from the top of the front frame to the top of the M/C.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/mv...=w1151-h863-no

So I will see what space I have to play with when I do my next test fit of the body shell.
But I have a rotten feeling there is no way this will clear without some sort of bulge fitted.
And that may have to cover both the bonnet & bulkhead which would be tricky.

Shopping Update:
Well at least my fibre glass stuff has now arrived, so I have the stuff needed build a bulge.
But there were some serious fumes coming from the boxes (thankfully no leaks, I checked).
So I had to quickly shift them to the garden shed and leave the windows open to air the house.
I passed the shed today and it smells like there is a glue sniffers convention going on inside!

Until next time, take care, Paul. :)

Paul L 3rd November 2012 14:40

Cordite Body Fitting - Take 2:
There were a few small issues during my first attempt to test fit the body.
Although in fairness, most of them stemmed from my use of zips ties to hold the frame in place. :rolleyes:

This time, I was at least aware some of my "mock up" work might also get in the way.
So first of all I removed the filler cap & connecting hose from the top of the petrol tank.
At least I remembered to cover the hole in the tank so I couldn't drop anything into it by accident.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7600.jpg

I also removed all the clutch & brake pedal mounting brackets from the front of the frame work.
Then, once again, I needed to rope in my wife to help me lift the body shell into place over the frame.
Our approach is to get the bulk head in place first with the rear end in the air, then drop the rear down.
It started raining before we could fine tune the fit, so I was left to get wet putting the cover back on. :icon_sad:

That was on Wednesday, we then spent Thursday & Friday in York as our family half term trip.
So today was the first chance I had to have another go at finishing the test fitting process...

The bulk head was hitting the front mounting plates of the frame on both sides.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/u0...=w1151-h863-no

I took some comfort from the fact AndyP57 also trimmed his Cordite demonstrator's body to fit it.
( Although I am not actually sure what bits he had to trim. :rolleyes: )

So I started by cutting two vertical lines in the bulk head either side of these brackets.
I then drilled a hole between to get my hacksaw blade in to make a joining horizontal cut.
This allowed the body shell to drop down further at the front bulk head.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/09...s=w640-h480-no

But as the body shell was dropping other parts of it would foul something else.
So I continued to cut little slithers of fibreglass off here and there, but not much in total.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7647.jpg

The passenger side now fits very well as you can see by the door cut out in the frame.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ga...I=w640-h480-no

However, the driver's side refuses to play ball and remains out by just a few mm.
The body work around the door cut off is not as low as on the passenger side.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/vG...o=w640-h480-no

As far as I can tell this is due to the bulk head hitting the pedal mounting plate.
Which seems to be the only reason it will not go any lower on the driver's side.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7642.jpg

Which in turn means the body shell will not cover the bottom of the front frame work.
As I said before, there is only a few mm of the frame visible on the driver's side.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GF...w=w360-h270-no

Although the front corner of the frame work also sticks out below the body shell.
My attempts to get this corner to fit also resulted in a small crack in the fibre glass. :icon_evil:

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7640.jpg

I will leave it like this for know and then have a think about the best solution.
It is the front corner section I need to resolve as the side section isn't an issue.
( I could easily use body filler / fibre glass to extend the side over the frame. )

Either way, the body is sitting much better than it did first time around. :cool:

Unfortunately, my front garden wall stops me taking a side on photo.
So here is the rear wheel taken from above which gives an odd view.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7648.jpg

2013 Sammio Calendar - Photo Submission:
You may have seen these already, but I got the idea after being stuck indoors.
Not sure if these will make the final cut, but it was just a bit of fun for "October".
It would be nice if I could submit a photo of my finished car for the 2014 calendar. :pray:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/WP...c=w360-h270-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ar...=w1151-h863-no

Lowered Floor Pans:
You may have seen Andy's announcement regarding Cordite production here.
Before he left for a well earned holiday he confirmed my floor pans are on their way. :cool:
This will allow me to test fit my seats and sort out the seat belt mounting points.
This in turn will allow me to start working on the plywood panels for the cockpit.
So these really are keys parts of the kit and I can't wait to see them.

Next Steps:
After working in the cold this morning, I quickly remembered that I am still not 100%.
So I will be having a bit of a rest before hopefully doing some more work later.

Until next time, take care, Paul. :)

Mister Towed 3rd November 2012 19:21

As the corner of your frame is visible under the driver's side, it looks like the Cordite bodies are also a bit shorter on the offside than the nearside, just like the Spyder. I eventually decided to paint the side rail the same colour as the car so it doesn't show so much -

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...ion/004-39.jpg

Without sectioning the body and adding a fillet I couldn't think of another way around this one :(

The thing to always remember with Sammios is that nobody will ever see the car from both sides at the same time, so the, ahem, little idiosyncrasies won't stand out. :biggrin:

Alpha 3rd November 2012 21:41

Bear in mind also that in the era that inspired the Sammio's design, similar cars would be hand built and often differ quite considerably left to right. As long as it was fast, they wouldn't worry much about symmetry!

Baz from Brussels


All times are GMT +0. The time now is 11:51.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright Madabout Kitcars 2014