250 SWB On Ebay
 

Just had this one pointed out to me. Not long left on listing, but spoke to the owner and he has had some good offers which he is considering:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/250-SWB-CO...wAAOSwOMdZRSFI

20 grand seems like wishful thinking to me.

No paint and still has the flash lines. Easy bit done, getting it finished and painting is where the hard work and money comes into it.
I wonder how well the doors open if it is still in gel coat?

Makes Hurnleft's look like a bargain.
Smash was gaining to be putting his up for sale, any news on that?

If it was finished it could well be worth a lot more. As it stands maybe half what it is listed for, its all in the final finish and attention to detail.
Good luck though !

I think that is Mineheart's car ...looks like he had a change of mind on the dash swap at Nubodi's if it is ...It will be interesting to see what happens price wise with this , prices are definitely on the up right across the classic and ''classic'' market at the moment ...

Waiting on new occupancy sensor to sort the airbag lights (it was removed when the seats were swapped and i wasn't thinking ahead!), then MOT, then detailing then putting up for sale and look at whatever (or even if any) offers come in.

Nubodi Northern agent website (https://www.automotivenostalgia.com/) says turnkey Kali's start at £19k and Koupes from £22,250 so that ebay add is really chancing it's arm assuming those turnkey prices are painted and also assuming by Turnkey they mean you don't supply anything as opposed to drive in drive out conversion.

It hasn't even been lowered has it?

Nubodi red Kali demo car up for 23k. I hope it achieves close to asking (for obvious reasons!)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FERRARI-25...8AAOSwCmZZSq1C

Doesn't Chris sell cars close to this stage for around £8k?

Yes ..because that's nearer its value in that state of finish in my opinion .. I think , as has been said , professionally painted and finished examples will achieve those prices ...Its interesting how much the common opinion of their values has increased since the DNA cars have made strong money ..as is often the case , everything increases in the chain in front and behind ..genuine cars increase in value , replica's go up too ...

Good quality cars deserve to attain a decent price ... Hopefully , lots of people won't try to jump on the bandwagon ...this has a habit of bringing prices down , in my experience ....

Look at how other classic type kits have gone up in value over the last few years. A good Cobra replica will be anything from £20k - £40k. Most at these figures will have a Chevy engine and Jaguar running gear and a fibre glass body ( hardly a true replica ).
If you want a proper Cobra eg a Hawk 289 with Ford V8 and aluminium body the prices are silly.
To place a well built and finished Tribute 250SWB around the low £20k's should be an easy target price. The 250's displayed at the BBQ would be worth mid to high £20k's imo at the very least.

There are builds and there are "builds".

Just for the record, I no longer have time to take on builds for customers, but will continue to occasionally "put together" an unfinished car for my own use (for fun?) and then sell it when needs must.

ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ....My visits to Tribute HQ have regularly seen cars at various stages of build where the customer has asked for a ''few changes'' ..a fitting of the kit to a car totally unsuitable for the kit in the way it was designed etc etc. this type of job never pays for itself , Tribute will have been losing money trying to keep customers happy ...I have been there , so know how it works ..I've had customers turn up when I was hungry for work and you will agree to do jobs that just aren't viable and end up working for less than minimum wage to achieve your goal and attempt to keep a customer happy .....
Threads like the ''what would you get Chris to build for you '' one , although are interesting and the virtual pub chat is entertaining , it does outline just how people don't realise how much effort and hours go into creating a facsimile of an existing car style and just how inappropriate some donors are ...overlaying 2 pictures on photoshop can build anything you like - on the screen ..... I think Chris has spent way too much time trying to accommodate that type of customer over the years and spread himself a bit thin at times ....The kits are selling well , a 2 man operation is running at full steam keeping that going , the space is limited ...there just isn't the time or space to entertain those builds anymore ...

Chris, give me a call next time you have put one together and had your fun in it ;-)

Bloody hell has it sold already?!

confirm sold...
 

Hi All,

I got in touch with Nubodi and it sold rather rapidly, close to asking price, which is great news for all of us who have spent so much time on these builds and great news for the SWB 250 kit in general :rockon:

Why are you so surprised ? The Nubodi car was an excellent build.
You'll have no problem selling your car, it looks spot on. You have gone the extra mile with the finish and detailing, its what people want.

I guess I'm just surprised because Bobs car went for 20 and I felt the body on that was far superior. Maybe it's the whole resale red thing

Apart from the Nubodi red car I don't think a decent 250 convertible has come onto the market. To me a convertible will always make more money than a fixed head.
How many people would have guessed even close to what the 2fifities have been selling for.
I know the quality of the 2fifty but at the end of the day if you have a 2fifty and a 250SWBc finished to the same standard is there going to be that much of a price difference ?(I know you have to factor in the 2fifty interior).
I do like the fact that I can say to people that ask that it is not a replica as Ferrari never made a convertible, small point but it appeals to me.

THAT'S VERY ENCOURAGING IF IT HAS SOLD FOR THAT AMOUNT ...It certainly looks good in red and that must have been a factor in the speed of sale ...

If that proves to be the case , which I'm not sure it will be as the hardtop is still a very good looking car ...then Tribute would be perfectly justified in increasing the price of the convertible kit ... And rising turnkey prices could affect hardtop kit prices too ......

As a manufacturer myself , and putting my business hat on ( rarely done ) it is always good news when the product works ...and if there is potentially some big rewards for a builders efforts , then Tribute are entitled to benefit from those increased profits too ..... in my opinion ...obviously home builders and build agents won't agree with me....

But , if you like , its like the increase in housing values means building plots increase in value too , no one questions that ........

Increased price will almost definitely mean VAT registration (I expect they're treading very carefully as it is) and then prices really will increase. Which may in turn lead to increased expectations with respect to quality (or run the risk of someone taking a mould and producing something to rival DNA - Tribute would be powerless to do anything as it's not their intellectual property )

Who's IPR is it then ? Its not a replica of a 250 SWB ..Its far enough away from an original to not be a conflict in my opinion ..and the concept of the ''60's Coupe'' fitting a Z3 in the way it does is definitely a Tribute achievement ..

I'm no expert on IPR ..I always play with original design , so feel safe that I am ok ..but I have been led to believe a 10% or more change can even make your own design compromised ..a Tribute 250 SWB is definitely more than 10% away from a Ferrari 250 SWB ....
If its the way the kit fits , then my internal frame method of fitting a S*mmio to a Triumph chassis should have some degree of protection ..maybe ?

Not a confrontational question ...Im just intrigued into how safe our hard work really is in the big scheme of things ...

Another holiday ruined....

I have already legally supressed an overseas companies attempt to copy a Tribute product. This will be my only public post on this subject, all other communications will be directly to those concerned via legal channels.

Every cobra replica in the UK allegedly original started from a splash of the Arntz cobra. Carroll Shelby didn't get very far...

I am intrigued by your VAT status.

Is this the start of the annual bun fight ???

Can someone put all the toys back in the pram ?

There is an expectation for a Ferrari to be red. Its largely the same with Cobra replica's, they need to be blue and maybe with twin white stripes from front to back.
Paint colour and wheel choice are the two big factors all else being equal when it comes to resale.

Annual ? Seems to be at every full moon these days :(

Gary - this all from my digging and prior knowledge so that's my caveat!

The 10% rule is a myth (according to UK copyright society). This is about derivative copyright law. The Kali and the Coupe are both derived works from Ferrari. The question is can a derived work have its own copyright? The answer is yes IF it's seen to be substantially different. It's a civil not criminal matter. I'd expect the Kali to be protected but the coupe is questionable - present a photo of a finished car (the No 7 car for example) and then a photo of the original for comparison. Man on Clapham omnibus would think they are the same IMO. I'd expect copyright would likely remain with originators Ferrari and so it would be their call whether they pursued either Tribute or a copy of Tribute. That's the gamble - does the derived work have its own copyright, is it substantially different? You're only going to find that out taking civil action all the way and then the question is does either party have the appetite or financial resource to do that. You can always try a cease and desist letter first as a cheap option and the recipient may bottle it but ultimately it's down to civil action. I guess the tactic for the defendant would be not that they hadn't copied the copy, but that the copy doesn't have any protection in the first place

I'm not sure of the details but all the Cobra's that are available or have been over the past 25 years just goes to show there isn't a problem. Yes, Shelby / AC did try to stop them through the courts but failed. If I recall the only thing the replica's weren't allowed to do was use the word " Cobra " by name in advertising material.
I would think Chris has nothing to worry about with his " inspired by " cars over a Z3 base.

I think Jeff is only intending to take a mould so he can make a lighter front end in a similar way that he did to the small bonnet.
Trouble with forums is that things can so easily be taken in the wrong context.

One of the things I like about my Tribute is the fact that it is laid up heavily, to me this would equate to strength but I can see why Jeff made the small bonnet lighter and think that as it is an unstressed part it is a good idea.

When Chris started the 250's he was in uncharted territory, as kits have been finished problems have shown up and with the help of people posting the problems, they have been sorted or work arounds formulated. In an ideal world as soon as a problem is sorted a new mould should be made but obviously this would be far too expensive and just not practical. It is important I feel to keep the kits to an affordable price.

I have enjoyed every moment of my build, all problems were relatively small and when you find a work around very satisfying.
The idea of building a kit on a rusty old Herald or Spitfire just doesn't appeal to me, I've spent too many years working on rusty old cars. The idea of building a kit from scratch is appealing but I would probably get a custodial sentence when dealing with some jobsworth during the IVA examination. Rebodying a Z3 or MX5 just makes so much sense.
I would love to do another with the experience learnt on this one I feel it would be a quick and superior build.

I was saving the bad news on VAT registration until the beginning of the new financial year for Tribute (July). It may be flat rate 8% to start, my accountant is doing his sums.

Sorry I'm a bit late to this thread but had a bad couple of bad days. It's good to see that our cars are being appreciated and are fetching decent money. When you factor in the time spent putting them together then improving and detailing them,if you were paying trade rates the values being asked would need to be at least current asking prices, but hey it's our hobby and that's why we do it, I don't think mine will ever be finished (don't let the wife hear that) I was at the Tatton park show a couple of weeks ago, when I got back to my car a guy was taking pics of my car and had left his number on the windscreen, he seemed genuine and offered me £22k for it. I had no intention of selling it (need something to take my mind off my current health issues, which seem to be going well at the moment) I showed him the mag feature of Nubodies cars and gave him Tributes details, so maybe he was interested in one of the current cars up for sale. Remember we have our car for pleasure and its a good hobby too.

So that will be nearly £500 on the 250 SWB and that's on top of the £1000 rise just over a year ago. I thought VAT was 20% at the moment, which would be close on £1000.
If the price has to rise for any reason your product is getting expensive for what is a set of fibre glass panels at the end of the day.

There are no winners on here when it comes to VAT.

Obviously , the price goes up .... not ideal for buyer or seller.
A raised price on the product in no way means Tribute are profiting from that ....potentially the opposite in reality ...

For Tribute , it also means a load of extra paperwork and aggro ...the thankless and unpaid task of collecting revenue for HMRC is very annoying . I , thankfully , get nowhere near it nowadays , but a few years back , when I registered late and got fined for that as well as having to settle a VAT bill that I hadn't charged the customers for ..it nearly finished me .... HMRC said , go back to each customer and ask for the VAT !!
It was 15% then and my average sale was about £300 ...so at a new figure of £345 , I made myself uncompetitive in a market of sellers who were non VAT registered ..

I seem to remember a system where I could charge 5% at the time on a sale , something to do with profit rather than turnover or something ...I may remember that wrong ...but I'm guessing that old 5% deal is the 8% Chris is referring to ...

If you still have the details it might be worth passing them onto Smash as he is looking to sell.

There are various simplified schemas for different business sectors. The "net" basis described above pretty much covers it.

Sorry his number was on a piece of paper which I put in a bin along with my accumulated rubbish from the day he said he was from Manchester I just gave him the info and told him about this web site he seemed happy with that. Trev

Yep, the flat rate scheme where you can't reclaim vat on purchases is the one you are thinking of.

Aaah , yes that makes sense because at the time my main expenditures as a cherished number seller were MOT fees , Govt Transfer fees and car taxation fees ....all VAT exempt from memory , so nothing to claim back ...I am guessing my accountant took the view the VAT I paid on a bit of fuel and some sundry items was negligible and a 5% increase would keep me relatively competitive .....

In my opinion , if thats the case , Chris would benefit from full VAT registration , as his biggest expense will be fibreglass materials which are very expensive , therefore reclaiming some of that VAT against sales VAT charged out can only be a positive thing for him and go someway towards his increased Accountants bills , time spent processing the paperwork etc....

Just my opinion ..... no one wants to see a price increase under any circumstances and 20% is an 'ouch' but it's the downside of a kit that has proved to be very popular and a great success ...... and if these cars are going to regularly start to sell for the figures being bandied about in recent weeks ...everyone is still doing ok .....not many '' hobby build'' cars will even return expenditure ( time and money spent ) , so to return a healthy profit in this market place is quite comforting ....

( I have very quickly done some sums factoring in an average purchase price for a Z3 , KALI KIT INCL. VAT , a fitting fee by myself , a proper paintjob by Jeff H , wire wheels , a healthy sundry and unexpected setback allowance etc. and I can't get over £16-17,000 tops , thats not a ''from'' price , thats worst case scenario ...I don't know what the build agents charge , so may be a bit different ...but that's my guesstimate ... so , £17,000 approx. down , two months later sale of £20-22,000 approx. someone else does all the work , investor just picks the colour etc... and you get a return of about 15-25% minimum on your money after all the fun ...better than any bank ... )

Or just get Jeff to do the whole thing ;)

The only person who knows what Richard's car actually sold for is Richard. "Close to asking" was a response that he knew would get back to the forum. Don't blame him either - it's his business.

I'll find out shortly what the market thinks mine is worth and report back when it's sold