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-   -   Mister Towed's Bugless Outlaw Speedster build (https://madabout-kitcars.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6672)

Mister Towed 13th June 2020 06:44

Aah, thanks Paul, that's a better picture of the head fairing so you can see what I mean about the 'horns' at the sides. You can also clearly see how far back the cover sits to allow space for the driver and passenger.

I didn't twig that it was a replica when it was on screen, but it doesn't get much (enough) screen time or any close-ups as I recall.

Up close and static it gives itself away in a few seconds, though - it doesn't have a rear engine cover, just a flat grille from a coupe set directly into the back which is a one-piece moulding -

https://i.ibb.co/fCskZdJ/Porsche-356...-2-780x327.jpg

Also, those steel(?) wheels with spinners look just like Rudge alloys (an original option on the 356, see below) from a distance, but the four-bolt pattern shouts 'kit car' to anyone who knows their 356's as soon as you see it.

https://i.ibb.co/16GR7JF/Silv-Historic018-617x463.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/h7vqshn/Silv-Historic002.jpg

Images sourced here - https://borderreivers.co/portfolio/p...peedster-1957/

Having said all that, I wouldn't turn it down if the studio rang and offered it to me as a gift...

Mister Towed 16th June 2020 07:07

I've made some positive progress over the weekend without any serious setbacks.

I finished off taping up my head fairing. It's only going to be a 'close enough' shape to work on out of the mould, hence the plug being somewhat basic -

https://i.ibb.co/L6Y0SNf/IMG-20200611-164642145.jpg

Off the car to reinforce the lower edge it is very reminiscent of one end of a Viking longship, fit for a trip to Valhalla -

https://i.ibb.co/489FwNj/IMG-20200612-134954077.jpg

Back on the car I covered it with half a dozen layers of 500gsm CSM -

https://i.ibb.co/54SGhtC/IMG-20200612-164145552.jpg

Leaving me with a basic mould for the head fairing -

https://i.ibb.co/F3HLd3D/IMG-20200614-100512477.jpg

The mould needs a little work on the inside: a bit of filler here and there, sanding smooth and painting, but it'll do the job once that's done.

Speaking of which, after a week or so for the paint to cure, I also set my hybrid 356/550 dashboard mould to work over the weekend.

As it's a two-piece mould with a pretty complex shape for the eyebrow over the instrument cluster it's definitely the most ambitious fibreglass item I've ever tried to fabricate.

Here's the mould clamped together after multiple coats of release wax had been applied -

https://i.ibb.co/L99PrY1/IMG-20200613-134103695.jpg

Next job was to put PVA release agent on top of the wax. This is where I did have a bit of a problem, though: Following the manufacturer's guidance, I sprayed the PVA into the mould using a conventional gun with a 2.2 nozzle, but rather than a smooth, thin coat, the PVA just beaded on the surface, even though the first few coats were just a dusting. Googling it, I found that some release waxes cause this and some don't, and I was just unlucky enough to be using one that does.

I couldn't find any posts that said what to do about it, I figured I could wash it off and just go with the wax but didn't want the dash to stick in the mould, which could be a disaster.

Instead I took a 1" paintbrush and kept brushing the liquid out across the inside of the mould as it beaded until it started to set and stopped beading. That left a rather uneven coat of PVA on the mould, but I figured it was as good as it was going to get so I went ahead with the next steps.

After leaving the PVA to fully dry overnight, I gave the mould a couple of fairly thick coats of white gelcoat, brushed on as I don't have any thinners compatible with it for spraying (and it's the consistency of treacle out of the tin).

Once that went tacky, I used a layer of 30gsm 'surface tissue' making sure it was smoothed as far as possible onto the gelcoat. Then it was on with the resin and layers of 200 and 300gsm CSM to build up the dash in the mould.

As the dash eyebrow is quite intricate and impossible to get a roller into, I found it was best to fully stuff it with the lighter weight CSM and resin, ramming it home with the tip of a paintbrush to make sure there were no voids and that the eyebrow will actually be solid fibreglass.

Anyway, after leaving it for 24 hours to cure, the time came to see what I'd achieved.

Drum roll, please...

So far so good, the front part of the mould came off with some serious screwdriver prying -

https://i.ibb.co/Xkf84Lh/IMG-20200615-123240355.jpg

Then the back of the mould followed suit, leaving a newborn dash moulding, complete with PVA placenta!

https://i.ibb.co/Thp9G2V/IMG-20200615-124022319.jpg

And after a wash with warm water and as sponge -

https://i.ibb.co/NLR2ZCg/IMG-20200615-133358816.jpg

I was in tears (of joy) even if my new baby wasn't.

Okay, it's not up to pro standard, it needs quite a bit of work to make perfect - the gelcoat surface is quite pitted from where the PVA had gone on lumpy and there's a heavy moulding seam to sand out, but it's light, strong and the shape I want, so I'm over the moon!

Here it is dropped into the shell (prior to trimming) -

https://i.ibb.co/G2d2GCZ/IMG-20200615-133747944.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/CwJrW6z/IMG-20200615-133718938.jpg

More later :)

oxford1360 16th June 2020 08:06

Well done that man. Looks great.

Mitchelkitman 16th June 2020 08:18

Was there wax on the mould before the PVA was added? I've tried to use PVA in the past, and found it beeded, also when I tried to get my object out that it was stuck fast in the mould! I gave up using PVA, and just rely on wax. Last year a made a mould, and a week later waxed it many times (no PVA) and a part got stuck permanently in the mould. I then read on the 'net that GRP that isn't fully cured can still cross-link with more GRP even with a release agent separating them - that seems plausible, because I then made a new mould and let it cure for 2 weeks, did a couple of wax coats, and subsequently laid up a part with popped out with hardly any effort. I was making a very small plug for a part a few days ago and couldn't get a great finish on it, and decided I'd put some PVA on it to achieve the smooth finish..... As I was putting it on by brush I couldn't get it smooth anyway, so thinned it with water, which meant i achieved a smooth finish. but interestingly when it dried it appeared a lot thinner! We'll see what happens. BTW It was the same PVA as I'd used before, but no wax on the plug, and the PVA didn't beed.

molleur 16th June 2020 13:30

Ideally, PVA should be applied by spraying at least three "fog" (very thin) coats allowing it to fully dry between each. This will go over mould release wax, 5 layers on a new buck or mould. allowed to dry at least 15 minuted between coats and buffed. Never had an issue using this method for 25 years.

Paul L 18th June 2020 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Towed (Post 104512)
...Okay, it's not up to pro standard, it needs quite a bit of work to make perfect - the gelcoat surface is quite pitted from where the PVA had gone on lumpy and there's a heavy moulding seam to sand out, but it's light, strong and the shape I want, so I'm over the moon!..

And over the moon you should be. :cool:

For a first attempt at a two piece mould, I wouldn't be comparing yourself to Chris @ Tribute who does this sort of thing with his eyes closed. :icon_wink:

The key point, for me, is that you have a lightweight custom build fibreglass part.

Whereas, I'm actually driving around in the 'buck' for my car. :rolleyes:

Good luck, Paul. :)

Mister Towed 18th June 2020 07:31

Thanks for your input regarding the PVA and wax release agents, guys, and before I take any more mouldings I'll be testing different techniques out before using it on the mould.

And thanks for your kind words Oxford and Paul. If you'd told me ten years ago that I would be fabricating such a complex part in fibreglass and achieving the result I have I'd have thought it impossible.

But then I searched 'Spyder' on ebay hoping to find a 718 RSK project or abandoned kit, but came across Gary Jaynes' Sammio project instead.

Since then I've learned skills like welding, making my own moulds for complex fibreglass parts and spray painting to a standard that looks quite satisfactory. Well, satisfactory enough for a serious car collector to fall in love with one of my cars and display it amongst his selection of classic Ferrari's, anyway.

https://i.ibb.co/NmZZk3C/mms-2017092...psz823kw15.jpg

So, next step is to bond the new dash into the body, blend a fibreglass bulkhead I have managed to acquire into the body and dash, then fabricate and bond in a complete floor in fibreglass to pull it all together and give the body the strength it needs.

That sounds like it shouldn't take long...

Mister Towed 19th June 2020 17:21

Just had time for a trial fit of the dash and bonnet onto the main shell this afternoon, and it looks like it's all going to fit together quite nicely -

https://i.ibb.co/c1gc9sz/IMG-20200619-160221645.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/p39CVyn/IMG-20200619-160630550.jpg

And with the aeroscreen in place you get an idea of how it's going to look and the view the driver will have -

https://i.ibb.co/8DSQdT1/IMG-20200619-161819640.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/C5wvVLR/IMG-20200619-161855793.jpg

Should be a bit more progress to report over the weekend.

Mister Towed 19th June 2020 17:45

Forgot to mention that I am going to be able to use the floor mounted pedal box I have on the shelf which I thought might end up too close to the driver but will actually be fine -

https://i.ibb.co/2sBSgrx/IMG-20200619-160320716.jpg

froggyman 20th June 2020 08:56

Looking good with great progress. It is interesting seeing this project coming together and look forward to further updates.

Paul L 21st June 2020 06:25

Mr T - I'd not spotted how the dash was going to join the bodyshell before, it will be a very neat job when finished. :cool:

Good luck, Paul. :)

Mister Towed 21st June 2020 18:22

Thanks for your input Froggyman, glad you like what you see.

Yes, Paul, that picture does quite nicely show how the dash will blend in to the 356's structure both at the top and down the sides of the inner bodyshell.

Over the weekend I started the process of mating the dash, bodyshell, bulkhead and bonnet by adding a lip to the dash for the bonnet to sit on.

I started by attaching the dash and bonnet together with strips of aluminium and screws so the leading edge of the dash and trailing edge of the bonnet were level.

Next step was to make a cardboard 'mould' (covered with parcel tape to stop it sticking) in-situ, both to form the lip and to give a 5mm gap for a seal between them to be added later.

I then gave the mould a coat of gelcoat and followed that up with three layers of heavy duty csm -

https://i.ibb.co/6vvPh95/IMG-20200620-133219905.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/nbdx8bt/IMG-20200620-141509443.jpg

Next morning I split the bonnet and dash and ripped off the cardboard mould to reveal this -

https://i.ibb.co/BsbbHL2/IMG-20200621-120029843.jpg

Dropped in place with the bulkhead attached roughly where it's going to be and it looks like this -

https://i.ibb.co/P4WG72j/IMG-20200621-130258299.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/1d3Kg8n/IMG-20200621-130335991.jpg

...and with the main and inner bonnets fitted -

https://i.ibb.co/JBZRXJx/IMG-20200621-132433612.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/tXBDM8B/IMG-20200621-164826669.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/FYXjpDZ/IMG-20200621-170025245.jpg

I'm happy with progress so far. It's clear that once the bonnet has a seal to bring it level with the opening it'll fit over the engine without fouling anything and everything lines up nicely.

Next step is to put some effort into smoothing the surface of the dash both inside and out with it off the car, then bond and glass the dash and bulkhead into the body.

More later :)

Mister Towed 25th June 2020 06:30

I have now fabricated the upper bulkhead to link the dash to the lower bulkhead using high-tech cardboard aided design -

https://i.ibb.co/2t824Wm/IMG-20200622-140013178.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/GkZP6rX/IMG-20200624-134438792.jpg

It's coming along quite nicely considering I'm making it up as I go along, and it looks like it will be a pretty rigid structure once it's all glassed together.

Paul L 25th June 2020 16:45

D'Oh!

I'd forgotten you are making the whole bonnet flip up. :rolleyes:

Now, the dash work makes even more sense. :cool:

Good luck, Paul. :)

Mister Towed 28th June 2020 17:24

Fabricated some brackets to take the Honda Civic alloy radiator this afternoon and it all fits quite nicely -

https://i.ibb.co/cLgvWCq/IMG-20200628-172808039.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/bWH7Wxf/IMG-20200628-153245213.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/C24C8Dz/IMG-20200628-172716200.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/wysQhh4/IMG-20200628-172738633.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/g40HvD0/IMG-20200628-173039107.jpg

The space around the radiator is a luxury I didn't have in my Spyder as the straight six was mounted much further forward than this four pot motor. At least that means a lot less likelihood of grazed knuckles if the radiator ever has to come out!

Despite looking a bit tight height-wise, there's actually about two inches clearance from the top of the radiator cap to the underside of the bonnet.

To keep as much air as possible flowing through the radiator I'll be making aluminium side boards similar to a Spitfire's to seal the sides, and an aluminium undertray with a discrete scoop built into it will pull air from underneath the front and from the two MGF vents in the front valance. That and the electric fan should keep it all cool.

andysharrock 28th June 2020 17:46

its taking shape well and everything looks a good fit. The engine looks small and has room looking at mine today I said that's a small gap for a big engine. You can never tell from pictures the chassis look big in reality we put it in the back of a transit with the wheels still on. stay one step a head on the mechanics so I no what to do next. lol

Mister Towed 28th June 2020 18:11

...I could stay one step ahead if you slow down a bit. Perhaps your fishing trip will give me time to progress mine a bit further.

One thought on how yours is progressing. I noted that your headlight buckets foul the ends of the front 'crash bar'. On mine they're sitting well below the headlight openings, just above the front valance cooling vents. As I've set my body to put the wheels at the correct height in the arches, that might suggest that your body is going to be lower than it needs to be. I'm all for the slammed look, but you've got to get an engine in there somewhere.

andysharrock 28th June 2020 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Towed (Post 104666)
...I could stay one step ahead if you slow down a bit. Perhaps your fishing trip will give me time to progress mine a bit further.

One thought on how yours is progressing. I noted that your headlight buckets foul the ends of the front 'crash bar'. On mine they're sitting well below the headlight openings, just above the front valance cooling vents. As I've set my body to put the wheels at the correct height in the arches, that might suggest that your body is going to be lower than it needs to be. I'm all for the slammed look, but you've got to get an engine in there somewhere.

thanks for the tip, they do foul by about 10mm just enough to hold the bucket out. slammed it is then lol. I will get some tiers on the wheels the body dose sit low but I was more thinking by the time its got 15" wheels on it will ride about the right height to the ground. wheels should clear as they are set in a bit more. only time will tell I will order some more cutting disc just in case I need to make some mods.:rockon:

Car photographer 8th July 2020 10:45

it's coming together!!

Mister Towed 9th July 2020 06:36

Thanks Car Photographer, progress is indeed rumbling along slowly.

What I've been doing for the last week or so isn't very photogenic, I'm afraid, hence no pictorial updates for a while.

I currently have the body off the chassis and I'm reinforcing areas of the shell that are too thin or where different mouldings need permanently joining.

These include the rear 'seat'/luggage area which is only a couple of thin layers of CSM making it flexible and fragile, and the sills under the doors which are a two part moulding that I'd bonded together but needed another 10mm of CSM & core-mat to keep the door openings rigid and raise the body up a fraction on the sub-frame.

While the body's off and upside down I'm also fabricating the mechanism for the fuel filler flap and spillage tray under the rear deck.

Should get some pictures of visible progress by the weekend. :)

andysharrock 11th July 2020 09:13

I was shocked how thin they are in places thats if its the same body fab, the reason I flipped mine over was to reinforced all the fixing points and vitals.we seem to put a lot of work in were you cant see it but still coming on and it will be worth it in the end with a better build

Ozzie Dave 13th July 2020 09:00

I love the fact that you have come up with such great solutions for this, and love the idea of a speedster thats Front engine RWD. dont know if you have come across this stuff, Thermolite, its a GRP and cellulose composite board. here they use it for bus & horsefloat floors. Its easily cut to shape with a jigsaw, very strong. the only issue is its not UV stable, so give it a coat of GRP coloured resin.
I have done some playing with it and its strong and light weight. May well be worth looking at for your floor or boot. Its also used as marine bulkheads. comes in different thicknesses from 1/2" to 1".
Its also interesting as it just glues together. If you have some flexing it also works as good reinforcing and I even made a single person vehicle chassis out of it very easily (with the help of the local CNC machine) .

Mister Towed 15th July 2020 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by andysharrock (Post 104753)
I was shocked how thin they are in places thats if its the same body fab, the reason I flipped mine over was to reinforced all the fixing points and vitals.we seem to put a lot of work in were you cant see it but still coming on and it will be worth it in the end with a better build

I'm pretty sure my shell is a Banham New Speedster from the late 90's or early 2000's. To be fair, it's mostly quite a heavy-duty moulding where it matters if it were to be mounted over a cut down Rover 100/Metro body.

The engine lid and front bonnet are quite thin but will be easy to strengthen, and the only place it's really thin is the rear seating area, which I think might have been laid up by a previous owner rather than Paul Banham as it's got strips of chicken wire and aluminium sheet bonded into the corners. They're going to be cut out and replaced with CSM so I don't get any corrosion bursting through.

As you say, work put in now to strengthen what we have will result in a better built car in the long run :icon_smile:

Progress is a bit delayed this week due to wife demanding DIY jobs be done before car, so I have some bathrooms to redecorate as I ran out of excuses not to :faint:

Mister Towed 15th July 2020 07:16

Hi Ozzie Dave, glad you like my off the wall idea. The body I have - a Banham New Speedster - was intended to fit over a cut-down Rover 100/Metro, which, just in case they never made it down-under, was a front engined, front wheel drive 90's supermini.
I've just taken it back in time a little with an older donor chassis, which also happens to have the correct wheelbase where the Rover 100 was about 200mm too long.

I'll take a look at the Thermolite sheet as I do want my floors to be strong and light. I do already have a large roll of core mat though (bought very cheaply as a part-used roll via ebay) so I'll probably be using that, but I doubt this will be my last build so it might just feature in another project.

Mick O'Malley 15th July 2020 09:25

Über Cool
 
I've just revisited this thread in its entirety, have been reading updates only for a good while.

I'm not worthy :hail: :hail: :hail:

Regards, Mick

Mister Towed 15th July 2020 15:38

You're too modest, Mick, your D Type and Monaco are every bit as cool as anything I could create.

Glad you like my Speedster though :)

Mister Towed 27th July 2020 07:04

DIY now finished so I've been able to make some progress on the Speedster. Nothing particularly photogenic, though, just connected up and filled the coolant system ready for the first engine start and routed the fuel and brake lines with the body off the chassis so far.

Cooling system had a few leaks - my water pump housing is cracked so a second hand one is on its way and the water outlet pipe arrangement that runs from it under the exhaust manifold is knackered so all new parts are on their way from Canleys.

I also opened Pandora's box yesterday which contained the flying spaghetti monster that is a 1970's Spitfire 1500 wiring loom. It has tentacles of many colours sprouting out randomly from the main loom, none of which seem to match the colours shown in any of the wiring diagrams in the Haynes manual. It's a good job I used to be a detective as I'm currently having to forensically analyse every circuit to establish what it's for.

I immediately discovered that I need a new alternator - the one on my engine has a four pin and a two pin connector, while the loom has a single three pin plug. Should be picking up a new MGB/Midget alternator from the MGB Hive later today, and I know it'll fit because I have one on my MG Midget (running a 1500 engine so the same mountings and loom).

Next headache is the main light switch. I've been trying to fathom out which pin does what, but there doesn't seem to be any difference in which pins connect to which between the two 'on' positions. I expected the first click to be sidelights only then the second click to add in the headlights but that doesn't seem to be the case. Anyone know what I'm missing here?

Anyway, I'll post some pictures when there's something interesting to show you, hopefully soon...

Mick O'Malley 28th July 2020 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Towed
Next headache is the main light switch. I've been trying to fathom out which pin does what, but there doesn't seem to be any difference in which pins connect to which between the two 'on' positions. I expected the first click to be sidelights only then the second click to add in the headlights but that doesn't seem to be the case. Anyone know what I'm missing here?

I have that style of switch on the A352. I'll investigate later, it may even lend itself to a picture if I've left enough slack in the loom. On the Monaco I've adapted the Spitfire loom for a two position Lucas toggle switch which I felt was more in keeping.

Re. the alternator connections: I cannot fathom why your existing plug has so many? It only really needs two: one to energise it (from ignition switch 'on' position via red dash light) and one to provide the power (the two big spades are connected internally). I imagine cable gauge restraints are the reason for twin outlets?

Regards, Mick

Mick O'Malley 28th July 2020 11:56

Enlightenment. Geddit?
 
Right. The spade terminal stations on my A352 master light switch are numbered 1-8. nos 2,3 & 5 are blind. Power is to no.1; side and panel lights supply is from no.4; and headlight supply (via relay and dip switch) is from no.8. I'd put a piggy back connector on no.4 so that I had a separate feed to the panel lights, enabling them to be turned off for 180mph blasts in the dark on the Mulsanne Straight. I'd also put insulated female connectors over spades nos 6 & 7 to prevent idiot shorts if I was ever monkeying behind the dash blind. Belt and braces always!

Hope this helps.

Regards, Mick

Mister Towed 29th July 2020 06:17

Thanks Mick, that's going to be very useful info. I should at least be able to make a start on wiring in the lights - I think I'm missing the relay for the main lights but it would make sense if the outlet supply from that relay was only live with the ignition on.

As for idiot shorts while fiddling under the dash, I had smoke and flame from behind Iris' (the Midget) dash when the metal wound oil pressure gauge tube shorted against a live connector and set fire to a masking tape label attached to a nearby cable on start up. Needless to say, everything in my Speedster will be very well insulated!

Mick O'Malley 30th July 2020 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Towed (Post 104846)
I think I'm missing the relay for the main lights but it would make sense if the outlet supply from that relay was only live with the ignition on.

I can't see there'd be any advantage in that. I find it handy to be able to use the headlights anytime when parked. It would also mean you couldn't use parking lights as the feed to the light switch supplies both. You could, of course, have separate switches for side and head lights...

I always fit one of those red key isolator switches into the heavy +ve battery to starter solenoid 135A (or more) feed, removing it when I leave the car, even if I'm only popping into a shop. Paranoid, moi?

Regards, Mick

Mister Towed 31st July 2020 06:30

I think I expected the headlights to automatically switch off with the ignition off so you don't flatten the battery if you accidentally leave them on.

Modern cars tend to have a buzzer that's activated when you open the driver's door when the lights are on, but I seem to recall that in most of my cars back in the 70's and 80's only the sidelights worked with the ignition off, but I could be wrong as it's a long time ago now.

As for security, I had a transponder immobiliser in my Spyder - you had to hold a 1p sized key fob close to a hidden loop to activate the ignition - and I'll be using something similar in my Speedster.

Anyway, I'll be spending this afternoon with a test meter trying to trace which wire does what in my loom as there are coloured wires that just don't match anything in the Haynes manual wiring diagram. Once I've worked that out I'll be close to getting the engine started for the first time.

I hope that goes better than the first firing of the straight six in my Spyder.
On first turn of the key the starter solenoid exploded sending a shower of sparks into the fuel cascading out of the carburettors. :eusa_doh:

Mick O'Malley 1st August 2020 06:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Towed (Post 104850)
...cars back in the 70's and 80's...

Bit of a non-sequitur, but this took me back to the day in the 50s when my mother and I were exploring the first self-service Woolworth in London. Goods that you could pick up and examine without asking a flunky - revolutionary! Anyway, I remember amongst the accessories available to enhance your pride and joy were indicators and heaters...

Regards, Mick

Mister Towed 1st August 2020 12:38

Yes, I remember heaters being optional extras on most cars. It was one of the selling points of the Beetle - it came with a heater as standard!

Revolutionary stuff back then, shame it made the interior smell like an oily rag, though...

Mister Towed 1st August 2020 13:12

So, electrical woes now hopefully sorted.

I'm really keen to have all the electrics fully sorted before my first attempt at starting the engine as I have fitted a reground cam. The instructions for the cam say to run the engine for 20 mins at 2,000rpm on first start without lots of slow cranking beforehand, as this will fuse the bearing surfaces of the cam and followers together, scrapping both, so it's important the engine fires quickly.

Now, the wiring diagram and colours/combination of actual wires in my loom indicate I have a built in ballast resistor wire on the ignition circuit, so I need a 1.5 ohm ballast coil rather than a standard 3 ohm coil.

As luck would have it, my Midget runs a separate ballast resistor on the ignition circuit and I have a spare ballast coil in the boot, hurrah!

For those unfamiliar with such wizardry, the ballast resistor or wire reduces the voltage from 12v down to 6v, which powers the 6v ballast coil in normal running.

The ballast resistor or wire is then overridden by another wire carrying 12v directly from the output side of the starter solenoid on engine start to make sure there's still a strong spark when the starter motor is pulling all the current out of the battery. The coil won't fail during start up because it doesn't have long enough to overheat while it's being 'overpowered'.

With this in mind I connected the battery and checked the voltage at the coil positive terminal, which should be 6v. Hmm, 12 volts present.

I checked the resistance from the ignition switch to the coil positive terminal and it's 2 ohms. The manual says 1.5 ohms, which is supposed to drop the voltage to around 6, but I have 12. I also checked the resistance through the secondary coil positive circuit from the starter solenoid and that's virtually zero ohms, which is right.

I then checked the voltage at the Midget's positive coil terminal and it's 8 volts as it should be.

As if that wasn't confusing enough, I then checked the resistance across the coil that's happily running in the Midget, the new spare coil, the coil that was in the Midget when the electronic ignition module failed and a new Lucas DLB105 Sports coil I have on the shelf, and they're all the same at 3.5 ohms.

After much head scratching (electrics are a bit of a mystery to me) I decided to run a zero resistance 12v to the coil positive terminal, use the Lucas sports coil which is the only one I know for sure isn't a ballast coil and ditch the ballast wire.

Everything seems to be fine now, I have 12v where I expect it and the right coil fitted to handle it. Hopefully...

I'm waiting on a few parts for the cooling system at the moment and once they arrive there's nothing to stop me firing up the engine. I do hope it all works.

Mitchelkitman 1st August 2020 14:11

The circuit for the 'cranking voltage to the coil' may only happen when the starter is cranking, and is connected when the plate in the solenoid is pulled into position onto the 2 large connectors - via another connector at the same time (I hope that makes sense). The clue is if you have 2 smaller wires connected to 2 posts on the solenoid c/f 1.

Mister Towed 1st August 2020 16:51

Thanks Mitchelkitman, you're absolutely right, that is how it works. The problem I had was that the voltage was too high at 12v in the 'normally live' coil circuit at the end of the ballast wire, where it's supposed to be 6v or thereabouts.

I have a separate ballast resistor in series with the 'normally live' ignition wire in my Midget and the coil positive wire reads 8v until you crank it, then it jumps to 12v, as you say, from a connection on the output side of the starter solenoid.

I did a bit of research about the ballast wire in old Triumphs and it seems the resistance breaks down over time leaving you with burnt out points and a fried coil, hence bypassing it in mine as I suspect it's failed.

The whole ballast resistor thing was a good idea fifty years ago, but with a well maintained ignition system and electronic ignition starting shouldn't be a problem, fingers crossed...

Mitchelkitman 1st August 2020 16:59

Aye these old cars are objects of mystery and education at times. When I met her my (now) Wife had an ageing Volvo 340 (manual 'box thankfully). This car was still a nightmare. One day (I was convalessing from operations) it packed up on her way to work. Long story short, points burnt out, garage replaced, 2 weeks later same. It was only when I got a 'jolt' off the points when flicking them that the mystery was solved - coil was also sending HT through the LT circuit! The car had a novel design of seat (2 door car) which were hinged so they tilted forward and towards the trans tunnel.

peterux 2nd August 2020 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Towed (Post 104861)
So, electrical woes now hopefully sorted.

With this in mind I connected the battery and checked the voltage at the coil positive terminal, which should be 6v. Hmm, 12 volts present.

You only get a voltage drop across a resistor when there is a current flowing so if the points were open (or dirty?) you'll get the full 12 volts.

Mister Towed 3rd August 2020 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterux (Post 104869)
You only get a voltage drop across a resistor when there is a current flowing so if the points were open (or dirty?) you'll get the full 12 volts.

Hmm, electrics really aren't my thing and I'm really confused now.

Wouldn't the current flowing through the test meter complete the circuit and drop the voltage? And why does the positive terminal of my Midget's coil have 8v after the ballast resistor from a battery showing 12.6v when I'm connecting the same test meter to it? :icon_eek:

I need to read up on low voltage electrics, methinks...

Oh, and I have now managed to check that I do have a spark and I've set the advance with a strobe by turning the engine over on the starter for a few seconds at a time (any longer might damage the new cam). I should be able to start the engine for the first time later this week once some cooling system parts have arrived from Canleys, which are essential as the motor has to run at 2,000rpm for twenty minutes immediately on start up to bed in the new camshaft.


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