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-   -   Deni's Miglia Build (http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6320)

lancelot link 6th July 2017 07:43

DENI ...I have been trawling through photo's trying to find you some examples , but with the recent photobucket issues and Tinypic not responding this morning , I am struggling a bit ....
If you google image search ''S*mmio Spyder frames'' you can type the 'a' instead of the asterix , I'm not allowed !! ... You will find some good images ..the red oxide frame on the white bulkheaded car is a decent example , we ended up farming some framework out and it resulted in varying quality , but the early ones were the better ones , in my opinion , thats a fairly early one ....also , if you google image search ''S*mmio Chevaux frames'' , they show triangulation quite well ...again no door pockets which will always be easier to make strong ...

This is how the Formosa 120 GR frames are being done , this might help you with the door allowance , note that there are 2 bars running horizontally under the door step and they are tied together with triangulated sections ...this may be the best example for you to draw inspiration from....

http://i66.tinypic.com/2efn68j.jpg


http://i68.tinypic.com/73j5o5.jpg

I'd definitely put some side bracing , webbing or triangulation on the steering column mounts too ...2 little stubs like that unbraced , isn't very strong ...if the steering column was or needed to be wrenched sideways left or right for any reason , theres not much stopping those from leaning over and/or coming off ... look at the way the Formosa one is done in that picture above ...you could easily add a couple of bits to do something similar ...

If you did a 25mm box version of that , kind of , then you will have a much nicer frame ..

Oxford 13/60's S*mmio build thread is worth a look too ..his frame is rather nice ...

What you will notice on all these examples is that there is quite a lot going on compared to your current frame ......

deni 6th July 2017 10:31

Gary - thank you for the advice. Farmosa frame looks soooooo much better designed and much stronger. I will definitely take your advice and add the bracing where you've suggested.

Cheers, Deni.

lancelot link 6th July 2017 20:18

GLAD TO HEAR IT ...These cars are worth putting the effort into ..nicely finished examples have been making strong money recently ...and regardless of whether your intention is profit or pleasure , everyone likes to know their investment is safe or appreciating ...

deni 7th July 2017 11:52

Gary - I agree. It is worth it to try and make the frame as safe as possible.

Cheers, Deni.

lancelot link 7th July 2017 17:51

I'm not sure what hinges you intend to use on the car , it was originally designed to use early Mini external hinges in , uncannily , the same way the Cordite did ...but if you fancied trying to go internal , hidden hinged ...I can sell the ones I use on the Formosa ...£5 a pair including postage ...just a thought ...as you were !!


http://i63.tinypic.com/1z5t9pf.jpg

Paul L 9th July 2017 08:58

Deni – Good luck with learning to weld.

I used a MIG welder for the first time on my build and practised on some spare box section first.

I found making changes to my box section frame easier to do than working with thin metal on my bulkhead repairs.

In the end, my ’Frankenstein Hillbilly’ internal structure had a lot of home welding in it.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-x...o/DSCF4542.JPG

Good luck, Paul. :)

deni 13th July 2017 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancelot link (Post 89325)
I'm not sure what hinges you intend to use on the car , it was originally designed to use early Mini external hinges in , uncannily , the same way the Cordite did ...but if you fancied trying to go internal , hidden hinged ...I can sell the ones I use on the Formosa ...£5 a pair including postage ...just a thought ...as you were !!


http://i63.tinypic.com/1z5t9pf.jpg

Gary - Thank you for the offer, your hinges look great. I have already bought mini hinges for the door but, and I hope this is not a silly question, can they be use to mount the bonnet? If they can, I would gladly buy them.

Cheers,
D

deni 13th July 2017 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul L (Post 89366)
Deni – Good luck with learning to weld.

I used a MIG welder for the first time on my build and practised on some spare box section first.

I found making changes to my box section frame easier to do than working with thin metal on my bulkhead repairs.

In the end, my ’Frankenstein Hillbilly’ internal structure had a lot of home welding in it.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-x...o/DSCF4542.JPG

Good luck, Paul. :)


Thank you Paul. Yes I remember reading your thread when you tried MIG welding for the first time. I will try with the stick welder first, and if I struggle I will source or buy an MIG welder and give it a go.

Cheers,
D

deni 14th July 2017 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Towed (Post 89295)
Hi Deni, yes, if you attach two different types of metal directly together one of them will corrode very quickly through galvanic corrosion.

That is a process where environmental moisture - rainwater, condensation, humidity etc., - acts as an electrolyte which conducts the electrical potential between the two different metals, effectively forming a crude battery. This rapidly causes one of the metals - whichever is least noble (resistant to corrosion) - to rapidly dissolve at the point of contact.

Whenever you connect different metals together you need to seal the join with a purpose made anti-corrosive jointing compound or you will get accelerated corrosion. I've listed one below but I haven't tried it and others are available.

The speed of this reaction is quite alarming, a good example being demonstrated in the U.S. show 'Mythbusters', who managed to dissolve a set of prison bars to the point of failure in about two weeks using Mexican Salsa as the electolyte.

Anyway, good luck with your build.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion

http://www.mbfg.co.uk/bonding-struct...s/duralac.html

https://mythresults.com/episode26

Mister Towed - just saw your reply (somehow I missed it on a previous page) and it is very helpful as usual, so thank you. A while ago I was fixing something and I attached a thin plate of aluminium on top of a stainless steel piece using silicone as a glue. The aluminium plate reacted and pitted (oxidized) so badly across the whole surface and I had to remove it.

deni 14th July 2017 00:37

However, the fact is that many of you guys have used aluminium sheeting (and stainless steel) riveted and bonded to a (painted) frame, and it seems that nobody think that this is an issue ....or did I miss something?

Cheers, D

lancelot link 14th July 2017 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by deni (Post 89457)
However, the fact is that many of you guys have used aluminium sheeting (and stainless steel) riveted and bonded to a (painted) frame, and it seems that nobody think that this is an issue ....or did I miss something?

Cheers, D

I've done that several times and am currently doing my Formosa build for Graham in a similar fashion ...it will take a very long time to corrode seriously ...no worse than using all steel or various other materials , in my opinion ...

Those hinges will work for a bonnet yes ...They will lift it up and away from the car with plenty of clearance .....The MX5 bonnet hinges are a nice hinge for that job on your Miglia too ...nice and simple ...There must be someone on the Tribute section not using theirs ? ..pm me if you need some of mine ... ......

Paul L 14th July 2017 20:40

Deni - If it makes you feel any better, I just copied what I saw other people doing. :rolleyes:

So I have alloy extensions to my steel inter rear wheel arches.

But I do feel a bit better after reading Gary's reply. :cool:

Good luck, Paul. :)

PS
Mr T was also a novice welder who went for arc, rather than mig, so you should be OK.

deni 18th July 2017 12:33

Gary - thank you for the comment regarding different metals. I will PM you as I really like your hinges and your offer is more than ok...:high5:

Paul - thank you for the encouragement. I am still working on the front part of the car and then I will try to tackle welding and the frame reinforcement.

Cheers, D.

deni 18th July 2017 12:51

5 Attachment(s)
Hi all,

Done a bit more on the car. Mainly cleaned and painted the front suspension bits and the calipers.

Attachment 4497


Attachment 4498


Attachment 4499


Attachment 4500



I have painted the front hubs for now but I think I will replace the front discs as they are quite coroded.

Attachment 4501

deni 18th July 2017 13:02

4 Attachment(s)
Attachment 4502


Attachment 4503


Attachment 4504


So, the next job will be to clean and paint the front parts of the chassis where there are some surface corrosion spots. I will also try to clean and paint any part I can access as I have no intention of removing the engine. Also, the rocker cover and the manifold/exhaust will need a bit of scrub...

Attachment 4505

Till next time.

Cheers, D

deni 15th October 2017 12:45

Hi,

Just a quick update and let you all know that I did not give up the build, just did not have time to work on car... Anyway, the schedule will improve in next couple of weeks and I will be able to continue to work on the car (hopefully more regularly). I have managed to finish cleaning and painting the bits around the engine and cleaned and painted parts of the engine and the rocker cover. I will post the pictures in a couple of days.

So, the chassis and the sub-frame are painted and ready.

Next jobs to do (before the body goes on) are:

- replace the anti-roll bar with the thicker one
- install the petrol tank
- fabricate / install bulkhead
- install the pedals and the cylinders
- install the steering column
- wiring

Till next time.

Cheers, D.

Paul L 17th October 2017 05:24

Deni – Quite a few builds run into unexpected delays, so you are not alone.

I have always been surprized by what can be achieved by just chipping away.

As any small progress is certainly better than no progress.

Good luck, Paul. :)

deni 17th October 2017 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul L (Post 91233)
Deni – Quite a few builds run into unexpected delays, so you are not alone.

I have always been surprized by what can be achieved by just chipping away.

As any small progress is certainly better than no progress.

Good luck, Paul. :)

Hi Paul,

Thank you for the advice and yes, I agree. I will try to work more regularly on the car even though this proves to be a quite challenge sometimes. The car is not stored where I live and it is not always quick to get there if I have a couple of hours of time, especially with heavy traffic, but fingers crossed this will improve!

Cheers,D.

deni 17th October 2017 10:45

A few photos below as promised. All the parts work fine and are in good condition. I had the engine running a while ago and it was running and sounding very smooth.
I have removed the surface rust and cleaned the parts, applied Kurust and painted the manifold, upper exhaust pipes, the rocker cover and other bits. The engine paint is very good, except around the exhaust pipes, so I have painted that as well. When the MOT time comes I will give the car a service and tune it if necessary. Also, if anything needs changing or fixing it will be done then as well.

Attachment 4672

Attachment 4673

Attachment 4674

Attachment 4675

Attachment 4676

deni 17th October 2017 10:48

Hmmmmmm......I'm not sure why the photos are not visible when I upload them as I did before....I have tried a few times now but without success. I will upload them anyway till I figure this one out.

deni 17th October 2017 10:51

5 Attachment(s)
Attachment 4677

Attachment 4678

Attachment 4679

Attachment 4680

Attachment 4681

deni 17th October 2017 10:55

5 Attachment(s)
Attachment 4682

Attachment 4683

Attachment 4684

Attachment 4685

Attachment 4686

deni 17th October 2017 10:59

5 Attachment(s)
Attachment 4687

Attachment 4688

Attachment 4689

Attachment 4690

Attachment 4691

deni 17th October 2017 11:06

1 Attachment(s)
Attachment 4692



That's it for now. I will post more photos as soon as I have made more progress. I have made a list of parts to buy, so till these arrive...

Cheers, D

davecymru 3rd November 2017 23:53

Thats all looking very smart!

deni 4th November 2017 10:51

davecymry - thank you. This was the easy part - not being a great mechanic (yet) I compensate with cleaning and painting I guess.😊 Interesting what you've said about your front springs. Hope the new ones will be softer. Did you clean your Spitfire tank inside and if yes, how please?


I have received some parts I've ordered from Canleys earlier this week, so I have a few jobs to do on my list for Monday (and a bit of Sunday too I hope).
I have bought a reconditioned radiator as well, and I have noticed that the drain hole is facing forward unlike on the original one. Does anybody think this is a problem?

I am excited about the next stage of the build even though the winter is coming. I am looking forward to learning how to weld and to work with fiberglass. I hope the "moon buggy" stage will be reached soon. I am going to try to do as many jobs as I can before it gets too cold. However, jobs like sorting out and testing the wiring, or modifying the seats and similar can be done in the house if it is too cold to work in the garage (will have to bribe the missus though). 😉

Till next time. Cheers,D.

Paul L 5th November 2017 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by deni (Post 91538)
… I am looking forward to learning how to weld and to work with fiberglass…

Deni – There is a great sense of satisfaction when you can use new skills on your build. :cool:

Plus, thankfully, there are a lot of people on here who know what they are doing and are happy to help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deni (Post 91538)
… if it is too cold to work in the garage...

Too cold inside your garage? :rolleyes:

[Rant Mode On]

”Does it ever snow inside your garage?”

[/Tongue Firmly In Cheek]

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7898.jpg

:icon_wink:

OK, I admit that even I don’t work on the car when there is snow outside.

However, I have cleared ice off the covers and carried on until I could no longer feel my fingers. :eek:

Good luck, Paul. :)

davecymru 5th November 2017 08:07

:) i found the key to winter building was old fleece lined jumpers, padded coveralls and lots of little jobs i could dip in and out of. :)

When i got my petrol tank from spitfire graveyard the plan was to use some of that "swoosh it aroind inside" sealer and coating. But internally it was in such good condition i didnt need to!

lancelot link 5th November 2017 11:55

I WORK ALL YEAR AROUND WITH THE WORKSHOP DOOR OPEN UNLESS ITS REALLY EXTREME WEATHER ...

I find once you get into something and are deep in the process you tend to forget how cold it is .....

deni 5th November 2017 13:18

Paul L, davecymry and Lancelot - thank you for the encouragement fellas.
Paul - building The Swordfish outside without a garage will always be a reminder and inspiration. So, like davecymry said, it will be a hat, long Johns, thick fleece overalls and keep going, but I'm not sure if I will be able to keep the door open all the time - not many palm trees here up north ;-)

I will be working on the car tomorrow so i will post some pics soon.

Cheers,D

deni 15th November 2017 18:38

4 Attachment(s)
Hi all,

Just a quick update. Did not do a lot but I am a bit further nevertheless. I ordered some parts earlier - some have arrived but some are not in stock-these are on back order and should arrive soon. I have ordered new bushes, U bolts and nuts for 7/8" ARB, but somehow I did not include new brackets in the order so I needed to postpone the ARB upgrade. I have ordered these and they should arrive soon. I have also bought upgraded drop links for the ARB.


Attachment 4747




I have also bought a heater hose set. I have replaced the top and bottom hoses, but I think that the hoses that run from the engine to carburettors are not of great quality, so I will buy better ones and finish the job when they arrive.


Attachment 4748



Attachment 4752



I am waiting for a steering column to steering rack coupling to arrive, so I can mount the steering column and do some measurements in preparation for welding the plate for the pedals. I have an old bulkhead I will use as a template for a new bulkhead fabrication.
I have cut it down for easier handling.






Attachment 4751



I also need to weld additional bars and reinforcements on the frame as well as the bars around the gearbox and around the prop shaft.

deni 15th November 2017 19:07

5 Attachment(s)
I have removed the heater box from the bulkhead. I need to inspect it to see if it can be used. If it can be used, it will be cleaned and painted for the installation later on.


Attachment 4753




I have bought a reconditioned radiator too. I have now removed the brackets from the old radiator and will clean and paint those too before fitting them to the new radiator.


Attachment 4756




Attachment 4754




Attachment 4755




I have noticed that the drain hole on the new radiator is not only on the other side (compared to the old radiator) but also larger in diameter, so I will have to order a new drain plug. I have bought a new radiator cap too. I could choose to buy 7psi or 13psi radiator cap - I have bought the 13psi one (I have a Spitfire 1500 engine). I hope that was the right choice.

Attachment 4758

deni 15th November 2017 19:12

1 Attachment(s)
I have trial fitted the floor panels too and it seems that they fit ok. I got a bit excited as the car suddenly looked a bit more complete....



Attachment 4759

That's it for now. Till next time.

Cheers, D.

deni 17th November 2017 15:13

Hi,

I need to order some steel box bars to complete and reinforce the frame. Just to check, is it a mild steel the frame is made of?

Thanks, D.

Paul L 17th November 2017 16:19

Deni - I'm pretty sure that the Miglia frame work is mild steel, as that is what the Sammio ones were made of.

I know I definitely ordered mild steel box section for all the alterations I made on my build.

Keep plugging away, as it good like you are switching from the restoration phase to the car building one. :cool:

Good luck, Paul. :)

lancelot link 17th November 2017 17:29

Yes mild steel ...I don't know what Mike used but it should be 25x25x3mm box section ...A length is around 20-22 feet but you will be surprised how much you get through ...I think the original S*mmio frames were about 3 lengths ..
You could get away with 20x20 if you are adding to the existing structure ...if you want some brackets to use as bolt on points ...there are probably some on the existing frame , as Mike used my program at my suppliers ...arch shaped brackets about 50mm wide and some 25mm wide brackets with a hole either end ...I have a selection at the workshop ..happy to post you some ...I use the larger ones as seat belt points too..

molleur 17th November 2017 20:45

Excellent advice on the 25 x 25 x 3mm section of mild steel.
You could get away with 2mm thickness minimum, however, the 3mm will be much easier to weld.

deni 17th November 2017 22:42

Paul L, Gary and molleur - thank you for the confirmation and the advice on steel box section. Gary tank you for the offer to post some brackets and it would be great if you would do this. I have PM-d you about it.

Cheers, D.

deni 17th November 2017 23:42

2 Attachment(s)
Hi,

I need some advice please. When I was replacing the heater hoses I've noticed the rubber in the picture below has split. Is it possible to fix/glue this or it need to be replaced?
I have looked in the Haynes manual and Internet trying to figure out the part name/function so I can order one, but no luck. It is located between the manifold and the carburetor.


Attachment 4771





And it goes from here:



Attachment 4772

My wild guess would be that it has something to do with a vacuum? so the rubber need to seal this point, but as I said it's just a guess...any advice would be helpful and appreciated.


Thank you.

D

molleur 18th November 2017 00:23

try distributor vacuum advance hose


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