Nice one Towed!

(You sure that's not the Lloyds Bank horse?)

Mr T - Great job on the wheels. :cool:

I'll be interested to see what your running total of build hours ends up at.

Good luck, Paul. :)

Ha ha, I suppose I could always change the background colour to green if I get an angry letter from Maranello's solicitor. After all, I'd rather get on the wrong side of one of the biggest banks in the world instead of the Cosa Nostra. :(

I'll be keeping a running total of hours put into this project Paul - I estimated that I put about 2,000 hours into my Spyder to get it on the road (about 1/4 of the total you and Scottie have put into your own cars?) - but I'm hoping to keep the hours down to three figures this time round.

I'm also aiming to keep a better grip of the budget this time too - my garage is full of parts I bought for the Spyder but decided not to use - so there'll be no more alcohol fuelled 2am ebay impulse buys, instead I'll be careful to choose only the parts I need and look out for the bargains, like the seats and a set of wheels at only a hundred quid a piece.

Yes they look really good. Boron steel drill bits would have saved some time there...

You could also reverse the horse. There was a Ferrari replicator a few years ago who had the prancing horse facing towards the right side. Many people didn't realize the difference.

Can't wait to see it finished ;-)

I can't wait to see it started!

Off to see a potential donor today.

It's a...

It's a... 1.9 :peep:

I say nothing

the straight six 2 litre as your number one choice would at least have a decent noise from the exhaust to back up the looks...
.
.


back to the badges saw this on a karma/dino thing

..



http://www.kitcarcollection.com/used...20%281%29.jpeg

Struggling to find a 2 litre with a/c and cruise control (both pretty much essential for personal reasons). There was a 2.2 with a/c in Coventry but it sold yesterday. :(

I've never driven a BMW of any sort before, so I'll reserve judgement until I've given the M44 engine a chance to prove itself.

After all, if your daily driver is a 500bhp AMG Merc, pretty much any of the Z3 motors are going to feel a bit tame, even if you are merely a passenger in the AMG as the electronics do all the gear changes for you, back off the throttle if it thinks you're caning it too much and applies the brakes if you try to corner faster than Mercedes think you should.

Sing la la la la, la la la la...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0nlygb1Qfw

i believe cruise control can be reto fitted
Z3 Cruise Control Retrofit Kit" (PN 65 71 0 007 353) please note this is froma usa website

also heres a company of fthe web http://www.motormods.co.uk/cruise_control.html

added expense yes but not a show stopper maybe?

It is not that the 1.9 is gutless, it is that it is unpleasant in character.

You know the discussion we had with Rene about the pleasure of driving rather than the simple efficiencies of driving?

For this one I have swapped sides. Yes, the 1.9 is an engine and it is capable of powering a Z3 but it removes pleasure from the process compared to the 6 cylinder versions.

Cost bites you once. Regrets are there for life.

Cheers Redrat, I'll take a look at the retro-fit cruise control as it'll open up the field of potential donors for me.

People who bought six cylinder Z3's seem to have ticked all the show off options: nasty colour combination leather seats, vulgar 18" black alloys, chrome windscreen surrounds etc, but skimped on things like a/c, cruise control and servicing. :(

That meerkat sticker did make me smile, I might try to get my hands on a pair of these instead though -

http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/...psx4qfxohr.jpg

...but I'll probably fit more authentic badges to the car. ;)

Speaking of which, this turned up in the post today -

http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/...psomnpjvfv.jpg

Genuine late 50's/early 60's part which looks suitably weathered for my preferred patinated look. Bit of a bargain too as it was roughly £300 cheaper than the only other genuine script I could find for sale -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ferrari-Me...item4acba27f4f

So, back to the issue of a potential donor. ebay had a 98,000 mile car in silver in the dealer classified's for just under £2k, and it was only 35 miles away.

It looked pretty good in the pictures so I took my better half and went to test drive it today with a view to potentially buying it. OK, it was a 1.9 M44 engine car but I wanted to give it a chance to impress me despite the poor (undeserved?) reputation.

The ad stated it had air conditioning, cruise control and service history, calling it a 'stunning example'.

On arrival it was parked right at the front of the forecourt, presumably to attract people in to view the other stock, and I have to say we were stunned when we saw it. In fact my wife was so stunned she refused to get out of the car. Our car that is, not the Z3, which was a mess.

It had no air con, no cruise control, it was full of fag ash and there was mildew on the seats. The service history turned out to be a sheaf of MOT failure sheets padded out with Chinese restaurant menus and the MOT had expired.

Under the bonnet the engine looked fine - no oil leaks and the oil was nice and clean - but some boy racer had fitted an aftermarket induction kit that looked cheap, nasty and unnecessary.

To be fair it started on the first turn of the key and sounded fine mechanically and not bad aurally (I think the four pot might even sound pretty good with the right exhaust fitted), and I was surprised how quickly it picked up and lost revs (I expected it to have a much more pronounced flywheel effect).

I'd asked the dealer if I could take it for a test drive (even though there was no way I was going to buy it) as I wanted to see if WCA is right about the M44 both sucking and blowing.

Key in hand, a quick walk round the car to check a few essentials revealed a tyre that was balder than me and a handbrake that didn't work.

So, I still haven't ever driven a BMW as I didn't want to risk my licence or my life driving a piece of crap death trap on the public highway. :(

I appreciate your post btw WCA, I know you don't rate the driving experience the 1.9 gives but I still want to see for myself as one man's meat, etc.

Oh well, the perfect donor's out there somewhere...

Have you seen this one Mr T?

I know that it is quite a distance from you but I looked at it and the only reason that I didn't go for it was that the rear window was missing and he was waiting for a replacement (I didn't test drive it as it was pi$$ing down). I intended to go back for a test drive but viewed another the next day which I bought.

The car is clean enough and the engine sounded sweet. The paint had been touched up badly on the sills but that shouldn't matter if its to be used as a donor car.

Its only a few miles down the road from me if you would like to go back and take a further look and some pics for you?

Each to his own. I have to say that when I saw WCA's Z300S with an engine bay full of engine, I was sold. Hence my 2.8. Sometimes I wish it had cruise control...

Thanks Gaz, that one's actually in my ebay watch list. The mileage is a bit high for my liking at 130,000 and it is a bit far to travel (albeit just down't rerd from't inlaws in Blackpool). I'm sure I'll be able to find a decent example a bit closer, but thanks for the offer to check it out for me.

Don't get me wrong, my ideal donor would be a 2.0 or a 2.2, but I won't turn my nose up at the 1.8 or 1.9 until I've driven one, which I wasn't able to do today. :(

I want cruise control as I suffered an injury at work back in 2007 that means I need to be able to move my right leg around while I'm driving longer distances. I get by with the Spyder as I only take it on longer runs two or three times a year, but I want the SWB to be a daily driver.

As such, a/c, cruise control and reasonable insurance and fuel economy are more important to me than outright powerrrr!

I'm in no rush to buy a donor at the moment as it could still be another 21 months before I can buy the kit, so I'm going to take my time and test drive a number of different cars/engine sizes before taking the plunge.

Having said that I'm kicking myself for not acting on this one sooner -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3910821902...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

All the reviews I've read suggest that the 170hp 2.2 is the pick of the Z3 engine range. And there's one for sale 8 miles from my house...

MrTowed - I recommend you do try the 1.9 and then a six cylinder. This is the internet and i could be talking total bollox like most people seem to (not on this forum obviously).

i need to drive an auto for injury reasons. It is important to get a car you can actually use. Persevere and you will get the right car I am sure.

If your really wanting to keep costs down, why not go for somthing like this....

http://www.hbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/zyview/...ding/R=5836366

Ok, maybe no a car C as it requires a ViC check and they might be a bit funny if you turn up with a tribute swb and not a z3, but certainly look at cat D cars that dont require a VIC check. Youl pick 1 up for pennies!

Cheers Danny, I've bought cat D cars before and never had a problem.

With the Spyder I ended up spending more time restoring the donor than building the car, so this time I want something that is fully mot'd and roadworthy to start with. Plus I've promised my wife that she can drive it around for a month or so in the summer before I start ripping the wings off, so it needs to be roadworthy.

I've decided I might need to up my budget slightly to get a decent donor and I've now shortlisted a handful of 2.0's. None of them are particularly close though, I'd have been gutted if I'd driven 100 miles + to see the piece of crap I looked at today.

Ha ha great minds think alike I wears looking at auctions yesterday

Took the opportunity to test drive a Z3 today, the first BMW of any kind I've ever driven.

It was a 2 litre straight six with low miles (74k) on a 'V' plate and in pretty good condition.

I was looking forward to the drive as I've only heard good things about the BMW M52 six (unlike the M44). :hungry:

So, imagine an engine that starts on the button and settles to an offbeat idle that hints at great things to come.

Imagine an engine that picks up revs quickly and smoothly, with a distinctive bass tone at low revs that builds to a spine tingling and addictive turbine whine as you keep the throttle pressed to the floor.

Imagine an engine that's docile in traffic but comes on the cams at 3,000 revs, unleashing the latent beast within and charging past the red line with no rev limiter cutting in to spoil the fun even if you keep it planted.

Imagine that's the BMW M52 2.0?

Err, no. Actually I was describing the 1.2 triple in my wife's Nissan Note, which has a hell of a lot more character than the BMW six. No, really it does despite the lack of outright power. Our Zanussi washing machine has more character on a fast spin for Christ's sake.

The truth is I found the Z3 to be enormously competent.

The engine is so quiet and smooth that I kept hitting the rev limiter in second (at a lowly 6,500rpm). The power delivery is completely linear - there's no surge anywhere in the rev range, it just pushed the car along. The suspension soaked up the bumps without transmitting the slightest of jolts into the cockpit. The steering made the car go wherever I decided to point it and the car moved along the road at speed with no drama whatsoever.

So BMW. Where's the fun? Isn't it supposed to be a sports car, not a luxury executive saloon?

Where's the mechanical thrashings of the engine? The rasping exhaust note? The steering feedback? The turn in? Where's the ability to adjust the car's attitude mid bend with the throttle? Where's the drama?

Truth be told it's a very good car, but that's damning with faint praise as I'd heard that BMW are supposed to make great cars. :ohwell:

So, what to do? Well, I still need to drive a 1.9 in case that engine actually has more (some?) character, and I also want to drive a 2.2 and a 2.8 before committing to purchasing a donor (the 3.0's brakes are too big for my wheels).

But it's not all bad news. I'm guessing a change of exhaust would make it sound more dramatic, while skinnier, taller tyres should give the handling a lot more adjustability (I was worried that the 2.0 engine would be too powerful for 185/15's but I now know they'd be fine).

Ultimately I expect the transformation from Z3 to SWB to also transform the feel of the car enough to make it interesting, while preserving enough of the sheer competence of the BMW donor to make it a genuinely capable intercontinental GT car.

Which is exactly what I didn't know I wanted until today... :bounce:

Try a 2.8 on a wet road with the traction control switched off if you want character. Look for one with Chinese tyres for additional thrills.

I'll give it a go. My, those Linglong tyres look like good value... :rip:

I felt the same when I first got the Z3 and that is a 2.8. I was very underwhelmed however I went for it anyway as I want to build a SWB.

After living with it for a short while it has slowly changed my mind, quite possibly because I'm learning how to drive it in a way that avoids some of its quirks. Just this morning it put a big smile on my face as the traction control was kicking in to keep the rear end in check as I put my boot down on a long bend on a damp road.

MrTowed, the competence you describe is exactly the disappointment I had with the Audi A8. Extremely adequate.

I am happy to let you have a blast in mine if you are at Stoneligh.

The BMW feels far less normalised than my Merc but far more than my Nissan Navarra. I guess what you start with as a base line determines how you feel about the alternative.

See you at Stoneliegh?

T, I think there's a job for you at the BBC, but instead of building a SWB it would have to be a Transit/hovercraft or some other crap.

Ha ha, I pity whoever does get that job. Mr C was Top Gear and I think the BBC have made a big, money losing mistake in sacking him.

The most annoying thing to me is that because he's lost his temper and thumped someone the beeb now can't see any way he can continue working in the public eye.

If he'd been a premiership footballer and he'd thumped/bitten/kicked/stamped on/raped someone, he'd get suspended for a couple of matches, fined twenty minutes' pay and be back on the pitch in time for the cup final.

Bloody hypocrisy I say.

Top Gear just won't be the same again and if they put Tiff Needel or Quentin bloody Wilson in as presenters I'm cancelling my TV licence as my telly will be all smashed. By me. :twitch:

Yep, that sums it up nicely - extreme adequacy.

Would love to meet up at Stoneleigh, I should be going this year unless work gets in the way.

Agree with you there Mr T,

The Beeb sacking Mr C was kind of like self-harming I think.......

Z-3 driving experience....
 

Mr Towed:

Do as i do, buy yourself a 3.2M Roadster and convert THAT into a 250SWB.
Put 17 inch Wires on and it's a real SUPERCAR....

Want to be sensible? no for no less then a 2.8, loads of torque and enough horses.

Both are being build right now simultanuously and will be finished in a few weeks time.....

Rob

I have just changed back to summer tyres on my BMW 125 coupe. Winters are 16" 55 profile and summers are 17" 45 run flats. It is like driving 2 different cars. The summer tyres make it grippy, agile and lithe whereas the winters make it feel much more old school, a bit less immediate but you can 'feel' the tyres working in the corners. So there's hope yet! Mine has a 3 litre six in it but with the twin VANOS variable timing - it's nut a noticeable surge like say a Civic VTEC, but you can feel when the cams change. And I love the subtle noise that gains an edge in 'sport' mode (not sure why though!).

Probably a pneumatic valve that opens in the back exhaust box to allow freer gas flow and a little more noise. Take a look underneath and you'll see it near the tailpipes, on mine it's gold-coloured and looks like a waste gate actuator.

Anyone know of a Cat C/D, vandalised or tatty Z3M for sale at a reasonable price?

A programme about cars... It will never take off, you need a floating transit or caravan banger racing...

Those sound very interesting Rob, please keep us updated with progress and pictures. :)

Yes please post up as many photos as possible

And if you need a thread to hijack feel free to use this one. I'm not that precious about it being my page. :)

Tyre ratings
 

Mister Towed, in another thread:

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...postcount=1006

You gave some very helpful advice about tyre choices which is simply presented and to the point.

However, what do we do if there isn't an 'official' specification? Suitable for the purpose... How long is a piece of string.

My Marlin Berlinetta was 'available' in two broad specifications, 2 litre Ford Cortina with Cortina suspension, brakes etc., or Rover V8 3500cc, same suspension (wheels and tyres?) and brakes in both cases.

While the car is obviously more powerful in the V8 spec, I can not find any guidance in my build manual about the correct tyre sizes or ratings for either spec.

My simplistic logic suggests because the car is lighter, the amount of power and stress on the tyres will be less, even allowing for the fact that the V8 engine is more powerful. The original Cortina was just short of 1000Kg, a tad more with up to 5 occupants. The Rover SD1 V8 around 1,250Kg + up to 5 occupants. I estimate the Marlin will be 750-800Kg + 2 occupants, significantly lighter.

Where do I (and many other Kit car users) stand? The car was built in 1985, so a lot has changed in the sense of risk assessment and applied regulations. I suspect most of the Kit Cars of that era were designed on the back of a fag packet and in chalk on the works floor, Perhaps they still are???

My MOT garage takes the view that given most kit Cars are self build, provided they are well assembled, well maintained and not obviously dangerous, they are OK. Their standpoint is they are not qualified to state what specification should apply. They tend to apply the old maxim that if they would be prepared to use the car themselves, it should pass.

My own feeling is that using 185HR 14 or 205HR 15 tyres should be a reasonable choice, because the original Rover V8's were fitted with the 185HR 14 tyres.

Hi Ed, the thread where the tyre speed rating was being discussed is for a car where the modern donor can run up to a (limited?) 155mph top speed, and people are already talking about turbos and superchargers.

Obviously, the performance potential of those cars plus the easy access to information about the donor vehicle makes it easy for a collision investigator to check whether the tyres fitted are correct for the car.

Where 'classic' based kit cars are concerned there are two factors at play - one is that the data isn't available off the shelf to check, and the second is that pretty much nothing that got used as a donor back in the day could exceed 120mph anyway.

I'd say that a Rover V8 Marlin (with about 150bhp?) would, depending on the gearing, be all done aerodynamically by about 110mph, and more power wouldn't necessarily add much to the top speed, just the acceleration. As such, you could put hand on heart in Court and state that the H rated tyres you fitted were definitely suitable for that vehicle.

The current BMW based Marlin Sportster, however, would quite possibly need V, W, Y or Z rated tyres.

As for availability, generally speaking, kits using older donors (Sammio/Miglia) use classic wheels and classic tyres are available to suit, while more modern donors (Z3/MX5) tend to use modern wheels and modern tyres are also available to suit.

After two years driving my Spyder on modern roads my advice would just be 'don't skimp on safety'.

Thank you for your input Mr T, It's nice to have one's own thoughts confirmed. These days things don't always seem to follow conventional logic!

The only reason I have gone with the Rover V8 is for grunt, we have lot's of big hills around here; also the ability to pull a reasonably tall 5th gear at 70 on the motorway for effortless cruising and hopefully, reasonable economy given the engine size. I have no interest in high speed or racing but possibly the occasional classic endurance trial.