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New builder from Holland, its alive!
Hello, we're new builders from Holland. (sorry for the bad English)
We followed some blogs and topics for a while and we registered us today. I'm Jerome and I am building a Sammio with my dad. We've a English Vitesse as a donor car. There is a lot of work done at the chassis, suspension and bulkhead. Most used parts are new. We are building a Sammio Spyder with a Lancia style bonnet. Here some pics of our project. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_8784.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_8948.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_9016.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_9644.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_1122.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_0536.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_1966.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_2456.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_1995.jpg Some photos from Gary's place and our trip to England. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...4ever/sam1.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...4ever/sam2.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...4ever/sam3.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...4ever/sam6.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_1948.jpg Here a link to another topic from us (in Dutch, more photos! ;) http://www.autoweek.nl/forum/read.php?18,4780024 We fitted the body and had a lot of problems with the fitting shape (?) The left side (seen from behind) is at the bulkhead 2 cm's longer than the right side. Our bonnet is at the right side 2cm longer (so no problem) But we've a problem. We have a very big gap between the body and the bonnet. I've seen a lot of pictures of other Sammio's and some gaps are very narrow. Is this filled with filler before painting or is our bonnet very bad in shape? Here a pic of our gap (we,ve cut some pieces out to fit it like this..) http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_2559.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_2563.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_2565.jpg Another question is about the front springs:we've bought some lowered (1 inch) springs and 'spax' absorbers (ride adjustable)but it still too high. In Holland it is not allowed to cut the springs,so I need shorter springs. Any options? http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_2558.jpg |
I can't help with your questions but I want your workshop!
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The black and white photos were took in England, at 'The Sammio company' ;)
Our workshop/garage is very small, but big enough. its in our backyard. When the car is finished we need a crane to whip it out our backyard onto the street. |
well your bonnet looks like it`s fitting pretty well, first get a striaght line on your bonnet all the way over from wing to wing, just use 36 grit sanding disc, that rub it back easy, then build your gap out from your bulkhead to meet your bonnet line, with body filler, thats how i got over the same problem as you."not much problem just few mintues of thinking...." HAPPY bulding
gary |
Welcome to the "not a a club" and the best of luck with your build, it sure looks like you're enjoying yourselves so far and MUCH respect for making the journey over to pick up the shell! :)
If you've seen my build thread then you'll see all the fun i had with the bonnet shut lines and even now i'm not 100% happy with how it turned out and i'm already planning on how i'm going to alter it all next winter (after a good summer of use!) I don't think that there is any one way to do anything with these builds due to age and differences in donors and how we all want to tackle things, but knowing that i know now, i'd try and make up as much of your shut lines with fibreglass / jiggling before using any filler/bonding paste. Dave |
Welkom op de Sammio ervaring Jerome. Ik hou van de look van uw gerestaureerde chassis, zeer professioneel!
Phew, that's my Dutch exhausted I'm afraid. I can't help with the bonnet shut line problem as I haven't got that far myself yet, but If your regulations won't allow the springs to be cut you could try early Herald or Spitfire springs which are considerably softer. This should allow the weight of the engine to drop the suspension for you and give a softer ride than with the cut down springs we can get away with over here. Anyway, veel succes het vinden van een oplossing voor het probleem. :biggrin: |
Hi, and welcome!
I am just going through the body alignment stage, and having the same challenges. I think the cost of the kit is very good, and perhaps a third of the price of most others, so you have to bear in mind that it also has some fitting issues. It will not fit right straight out of the box. It will need some work to get it to fit to your bulkhead/chassis/frame combination. The advantage is that fibreglass is not a huge issue to modify and as Mulberry and DaveCymru have said, there are different ways of tackling the bonnet gap. Some build out the bulkhead and some add length to the bonnet. Either is fine and whatever works for you. One thing to consider is some strengthening "webs" on the inside of the bonnet - Gary has added these to a car he was building and the big advantage with them is that is will help the bonnet keep the right shape, particularly down the sides where the catches are mounted. Heres the picture: http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/...e/DSCF0268.jpg |
Thanks for the fast answers! its very helpful.
To be continued! |
Welcome Jerome! Your English is definitely way better than my Dutch
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I'm sure I'm not the only one that just LOVES the black and white photos of the Sammio Motor Car Factory. Very period and would look great enlarged and framed! Welcome to the group. Looks like your car will be stunning !
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Thanks Andy!
We want for our car a vintage racing look, not a very shiny car, but a bit more racy. Here's a little photoshop. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j.../photosjop.jpg This is our idea, but we've no spoke wheels. We're looking for some period 14'' steelies (any ideas?). |
i love that look jerome- very purposeful - no show and shine winner just a stripped out racer :)
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Re springs I think you need much softer springs. If you just chop them you will have a hard ride. Fine for a smooth race track. The finished Sammio is much lighter, so you could nearly halve the rate to 100 lb and that would drop you loads. If you fit short springs there is a risk they will become unseated when you get airborne.
Going briskly on b roads is all about keeping the tyres on the tarmac, and hard suspension does not help that, even if it feels better! On the rear spring you could remove the top three leaves as well. |
Jerome ....welcome.
Good progress.... I am not as well qualified to answer the technical stuff as some guys on here ...diff ratio's , spring ratings etc. not really my field , but there are some talented and knowledgable guys on here that are happy to share their expertise.... Bodywise ....there is a slight difference one side to the other....most people accept it , build the adljustment in and gap up accordingly with the attitude ''you cannot see both sides at the same time''... some people like to correct the measurement .....both ways are acceptable - just different ways to achieve the car depending on builders choices.... Many production and most kit car bodies aren't perfect ...not making excuses for mine , but having come from a restoration background as well as kit car / Hot Rod building , I have seen measurements on cars like old Jensens , porsches etc as well as the run of the mill stuff that is quite surprising ....the truth is , you don't generally eye up measurements on a car but generally process what you see as an overall image ... Most of the Cobra bodies ....certainly the lower end ones are not symmetrical ....I have seen Cobra bodies with doors an inch or more longer one side than the other ! I have heard tale of the originals being the same... I think my original 1961 donor vehicle that I used to create the first body had an untrue bulkhead ....something that has translated into my bodies....we built a vitesse for a guy a few years back and his wheelbase was 22mm out one side compared to the other , so we know the donors aren't always correct either !! Now Mike is more than capable of taking one of our bodies and perfecting it , but this changes a couple of important factors ....firstly , I like the primitive early 50's feel of our product , taking kit car building back to its roots , an affordable level with uncomplicated build process ...also the flexibility of change , as in Charmans G46 , Any Kendricks car etc. is very easy at this level....also , , having spent just under 5 figures 'facelifting' a Spyder to create the Cordite , we would probably need to spend the same again bringing the level up and certainly re-mould the entire body ....result of that , a price increase to nearly double it is now to justify the new spec. and investment.... Hopefully regular involvement here and lots of questions , if you are unsure , will get your car built to a level you are happy with ..... Your ideas for a race style look are great ...just started collecting bits myself for my own build and I intend to go down a similar route with mine..... Speak soon.... |
Just like to confirm what Gary has said. Before mass production, computer, cad, etc. all cars were hand made. With this method it meant each panel was made to fit the gap it needed to fill, the result being a wing or door from one car would need work to try and fit it on another. So the Sammio really does resemble a hand made car of the era.
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Mike had to fit an E-type bonnet a few years back and he told me when it arrived it was overlength by about 4 or 5 inches .....the instructions were ....''trim back to fit '' !! Thats a £7000 panel ....
Any way , excuses and justifications over ....lets just build them and enjoy them !! |
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Thanks for all the reactions!
Its good to know that it is not our fault, so we can continue the build without any trouble and having fun! Our car haven't to be a concours winner, it have to be looking a bit rough, so maybe we paint with a matt finish (?) The 50's style is what we like of the Sammio, just a simple design and a lot of space for your own ideas! Thats also the reason why we haven't build a Burton (2cv-kitcar from our village in The Netherlands). Thats a perfect designed kit, but there isn't a lot of space to make it your own. And i've never seen a Sammio before in the Netherlands, I see in summer almost 10 Burtons a day in our city! Here a shot of our project from yesterday (with the cut-of springs) http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...ver/sammio.jpg |
do tr6 wheels fit? 15" look pretty good and could be a cheap alternative
http://www.quillertriumph.co.uk/Quil...rims_small.JPG or fit a dummy spinner and fibeglass cover to imitate the lister/dunlop knock off wheels on old jags http://www.britishracecar.com/SydSil...-Jaguar-DG.jpg http://www.britishracecar.com/JoeGun...nderson-CD.jpg |
Sadly pcd on bigger Triumphs is different.
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dunlop wheels
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Madmark had the issues with not being able to get a decent selection of wheels to race his SD1 so tracked down some ali billet spaces from the States which offset the rover PCD to a PCD of his choice which opened up the selection of wheels he could use. So there is a solution available from the states to use a different PCD if one needs |
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Hello,
Has anyone experiences with MGF steel(spare wheels)on Herald/soit? As I,ve read on internet it must fit.Seems they are rare in 14 inch. |
Hi Jerome, we've met I was at Gary's when you and Dad picked your kit up. Skippy is running on MGF 15 inch wheels alloys with low profile tyres, they bolt straight on but have a 5mm spacer just for a little more clearance, regards PAT
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Just had a look at the mgf spare wheel on ebay good value but the off set looks very big! I'll see if I can find one to try on Skippy. PAT
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not a pretty wheel are they http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNj...h+!~~60_12.JPG
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqZ,!jo...q!UGg~~_12.JPG but rover 25 are a better looking wheel they should be the same pcd? http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDgwWDY0MA...8V!~~60_12.JPG http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDgwWDY0MA...m0!~~60_12.JPG |
Hmm... that looks kinda weird I think.
We want 14 inch because it is illegal in Holland to cut some steel of the chassis. But there isn't a lot of choice in 14" inch PCD 3,75... Spacers are also not allowed here, the track wide (?) may not change more than 2% of the original width. So w've found the Weller wheels and some other custom made wheels but those are very expensive.. The MGF wheels fit, but they don't look very nice, maybe when we change the depth of the wheel they look a bit better? Someone better suggestions? The original Vitesse wheels are very small and boring.. |
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Triumph Spitfire , GT6 ,TR8 , TR7 , many Austin and Lotus cars http://i.ebayimg.com/10/!CFFCGkQBWk~...h(JT!~~_12.JPGTriumph Spitfire, GT6, Herald, TR7, or TR8 wheels adapters. They also fit many classic Lotus sportscars too. These are brand-new in the box. They are made of 6061 Billet aluminum (Aircraft grade) and are 1 inch wide. They bolt right up to your original 3/8" or 12mm studs. What you see in the first picture is what you get. They come complete with hardened 12mm (1.50 thread) wheel studs that will accept standard 12mm aftermarket lugnuts. |
I suspect that the adapters cannot be used either...they space as well as adapt !
Those Rover wheels don't look too bad ...the slots are a bit like the rudge wheel...you could mock up a fake cap and spinner like I am playing with to make them a bit more interesting ....even a spinner mounted in the centre like a dunlop would change the whole look.... If you are struggling because you don't want to cut your chassis ....you don't have to. The bulkhead needs cutting back , but this is classed as bodywork ...we use it for convenience. You can fit a 15'' wheel with an appropriate sized tyre and it will fit without chassis cutting.....might widen your options ? |
The 4x100 adaptors would allow the fitting of Golf steels which can be found for a reasonable sum and would look quite 'Dunlop' like if sprayed satin silver and fitted with dummy spinners.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-Sp...item35b20650b1 + http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-VW...item27c4fc5b4e + https://www.europaspares.com/product...____cpds_.html = http://www.realmengineering.com/dunl...%20wheels.html Of course, if your vehicle inspection prohibits widening the track you're stuck with standard steels or MGF alloys. |
Think I'm going route 1 and sticking with Spitfire wheels
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Should look pretty good but bear in mind that the wire wheel adaptors do increase the track considerably which pushes the wheels out to fill the arches nicely. You might need to add spacers to achieve the same visual effect. :party: |
We looked back at the Weller wheels and we send some mails to order a set. There looking good and the hart of the rim is deeper than the original wheels. So the wheel arches are filled better because the edge of the wheel lies more close to the body. With some higher tires the diameter grows a bit and it looks good I think.
Thanks for all the replies! This forum is very fast and more helpful than the dutch car-forum. Now continuing the build! |
intresting donors?
I just looked at a Triumph Midge which is for sale in Holland.
These ,mostly stooped,projects looks like good donors for England. Only with all V5 documents we can import them. http://www.mobc.co.uk/page6.htm Lots for sale and cheap,also a hind:chairs of a Reliant looks very small or small enough for our use? Hope of any help. |
What about the hubs that Canleys do, they can supply them blank?
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After a long, long time an huge update!
Were presenting our solutions! First of all, we've builded our Sammio with in thought that we always can remove the body in one piece just like a Vitesse. This means a lot of work and thinking. We've placed customized Herald sills instead of the Sammio ones because they're removable and as a bonus our sills are now straight! Another huge change in the original design is that we placed the whole body 2cm to the back, the wheels are way better centered now. The removable body means that our floorpans are welded on to the frame. So we didn't have to make holes in the chassis. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_2741.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_4575.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_3949.jpg From the beginning we didn't like the idea of the bonnet. We thought we had to make it stronger. So we developed a removable bonnet on a frame and a small 'service' bonnet inside it (like a Cobra). The bonnet is positioned with d'zus bolts. The edge from the bonnet to the body is filled with bonding paste to fit. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_3948.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_4443.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_4445.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_4566.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_5997.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_5989.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_7305.jpg When we first cut out the bootlit we made a mistake not to strengthen this part so we needed an extra steelframe to keep it in shape When we made the bonnet we first put in some layers of polyester. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_3812.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_2590.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_2703.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_2726.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_4455.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_3963.jpg Because we've a framework underneath the bonnet we had to change some things, we've changed the place of the alternator and made some innerwings from alloy. At the back there is lugageroom behind the seats as wel in the back. So there is a floor and innerwings from alloy also. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_4556.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_4560.jpg We've lowered the car more than 1 inch a the back and we use lowered spitfire springs in the front. Because of the lowering, our handbrakesystem is changed like someone of the forum did. (made a customized frame for the brake cables) Part 1/2 |
Part 2
We want to create a race look, we keep the frame insight, and we placed alloy plates behind it. It looks very cool I think. We've got a lugageroom behind the seats, so we needed seats that can lift. We've customized some Fiat Panda seatframes. Our seats can slide and lift now. The seats are from a VW buggy. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_4583.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_4573.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_4448.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_4446.jpg Due to the small interior space and our lenght, we've made a removable steering wheel. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_5993.jpg Our dashboard is made from steel and the center with the clocks in it will be form alloy. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_5987.jpg The whole interior exists out of alloy and steel for the racing look. The exhaust is cut of and we've replaced the dampers. We've got now 2 small exhaust pipes in the centre! There will be an alloy plate around them. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_7314.jpg The taillights were made from PVC, the lights itselfs came from a Land Rover. The flashers come from the scrapyard, a Kia I think. We ended with a kind of Wiessmann look! http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_6282.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_6291.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_7313.jpg Our radiator was very bad and is replaced by a Volvo radiator. Our fan is from a Citroen BX. They're fitted in a customized frame. We've bought a set of MGF steel wheels and it looks good! We have an idea in making some spinners on them. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...r/IMG_2735.jpg At this moment we,re bussy with the motor, its compartment and we,ve made a beginning with sanding the body..... |
Holy cow! Thanks for the update. Lots of food for thought. I shall be taking a closer look at the pics tonight. I would have liked to weld the floor but that would cause a problem in the UK when re-registering.
I like the positioning of the boot. Expect to see it on other Sammios in the future. Keep up the good work. |
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