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-   -   Deni's Miglia Build (http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6320)

deni 31st March 2017 20:47

Deni's Miglia Build
 
5 Attachment(s)
Hi Everybody,

My name is Deni. Approx. 2 years ago I've bought Triumph Herald rolling chassis and it included a Spitfire 1500 engine and a single rail 4 gear box as well as a Miglia kit. As you can see, it took a while to get the build going, for all sorts of reasons, but I have now finally started!!!

Just to warn you all, I am probably the least experienced car builder you will ever 'meet', but reading your threads I was inspired and thought I am going to give it a go.

This might be a slow build but I hope to finish the car and will do my best to persevere and muddle through to the end.

I have started only a few weeks ago and had a chance to go to the garage a few times, so you did not miss a lot - mainly cleaning and painting the chassis and other attached bits, which is probably not the most interesting part anyway. I was very lucky to buy, what I think is a rolling chassis in a very good condition, which should make the build a little bit easier hopefully.

I will try to upload some photos to bring us to a current point in the build.

So here we go.....

deni 31st March 2017 21:07

..just testing uploading the photos.

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...pictureid=1054

deni 31st March 2017 22:41

It's getting late tonight but I will upload more photos in a next few days.

Cheers,
D

Barber 1st April 2017 04:42

Good luck matey.

Paul L 1st April 2017 07:29

Deni - Great to see you have started a build thread. :cool:

It certainly looks like the engine and chassis are in good condition.

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...8&d=1490993158

Quote:

Originally Posted by deni (Post 87128)
… I am probably the least experienced car builder ...

Oi! I resemble that remark.

:wink:

Jokes aside, if I could get my car on the road, anything is possible.

Good luck, Paul. :)

deni 10th April 2017 14:07

More Pics...
 
5 Attachment(s)
Pictures of chassis before cleaning and painting...

Attachment 4257

Attachment 4258

Attachment 4259

Attachment 4260


Second hand swing spring I bought...

Attachment 4261

deni 10th April 2017 14:09

Hi Barber and Paul L - thank you guys for your posts. I will post a few more photos later on and that will bring us to the point in the build where I am now (mainly cleaning and painting the various bits!).

Next time I can work on the car will be Weds and I will make more photos and post them afterwards.

Cheers,
D

deni 10th April 2017 15:27

5 Attachment(s)
I know that a lot of you replaced suspension bushes at this stage for polyurethane bushes but for now I'm going to keep it simple as these look in decent condition. I'd like to build this car as quickly as possible keeping the costs down, and wait and see how it drives and then keep tinkering on it when it's finished. I have also bought a one inch lowering block but for now, I'll keep the original shock absorbers before I decide about GAZ adjustable shocks.

Attachment 4262


Chassis is paint stripped and treated with Kurust (everything except the main middle bit which was in excellent condition) and everything is painted with 3 layers of chassis black.

Attachment 4263

Attachment 4264


Diff casing is also cleaned, treated with Kurust and painted
Attachment 4265

Attachment 4267

deni 10th April 2017 15:36

4 Attachment(s)
To balance the car handling, the anti-roll bar at the front needed to be upgraded too. I have bought 7/8" Spitfire one and this will replace the original Herald one.

Attachment 4268


Cleaned and treated with Kurust.

Attachment 4269


Both drum hubs had some cracking on them and were replaced with brand new ones. I have inspected the condition of the rear brakes and it was excellent.

Attachment 4270



Attachment 4271

deni 10th April 2017 15:46

4 Attachment(s)
Also, bought a second-hand Spitfire petrol tank with sender unit (I hope it works!)

Attachment 4272


Stripped and cleaned.

Attachment 4273


Treated with Kurust, then painted with red oxide primer (no photo, but it can be seen in the photo of the new brake drums)

Attachment 4274


And finally painted with 2 layers of black.
Attachment 4275

deni 10th April 2017 15:52

5 Attachment(s)
Spitfire pedals, stripped, cleaned and treated with Kurust, then painted with 2 layers of grey primer and a top layer of gun metal grey.

Attachment 4276

Attachment 4277

Attachment 4278

Attachment 4279

Attachment 4280

That's how far I've got until now - so now you are up to date...

Cheers,
D :dance:

swifty 10th April 2017 19:56

Looking forward to seeing the build, any ideas for the interior.

lancelot link 10th April 2017 20:47

Promising start ..keep us updated with pics please ...

deni 11th April 2017 18:48

Gary - thanks, I will keep uploading the photos. I will have some time tomorrow to work on the car and will make more photos.

Swifty - welcome! I have a rough idea about the interior. I have bought second hand MGB seats and the panels (I'm not going to use the panels but the material they are covered with as the colour matches the seats). The colour is autumn leaf, which I like. They are in the storage at the moment, so I will make a picture later.

I know that the seats could be a bit big, but we shall see...for the rest, I would like to use aluminium panels and rivets to do the paneling inside, and try to do some detailing using the material I've bought, but I still do not have a clear idea. Part of the challenge is to do it as you go I guess.

I've followed your build, and your fabrication skills are amazing, so I guess you can visualise things and just make them, and your car turned out a stunner.
I will just try to learn as I go and we'll see what I come up with.

Cheers,
D

Mister Towed 11th April 2017 19:29

Hi Deni, I bought a pair of MGB seats to put in my Spyder and they turned out to be too big. You might struggle to get them into your Miglia as the bodies are somewhat similar in size I believe.

The problem is the width when you lower them enough to avoid the dreaded 'Noddy' driving position.

It looked like they'd be fine on first trial fit -

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...ion/003-12.jpg

Still looked okay with the floorpan dropped to lower them -

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...lion/010-1.jpg

But then you add the frame and, oh dear, they don't fit -

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...illion/013.jpg

Don't be tempted to fit them above the chassis rails (as in the first pic above), you really won't enjoy the car if your seating position is too high.
It would be very uncomfortable and your head will ruin the aerodynamics.

Ideally you want your eyes to be level with the top of the flyscreen and your shoulders to be just above the edge of the cockpit so you can drop your elbow over the side while you're out cruising.

Anyway, good luck with your build.

DaveP 12th April 2017 06:30

If the MGB seats are a no-go consider some out of a Ford Streetka. They are pretty small and can be had for a decent price even in leather.

My daughter has a Ka (don't laugh) and the seats are ok. The rest of the car ..... well......

At least it won't get stolen by joy-riders.

Dave

Mitchelkitman 13th April 2017 08:18

:attention:If you get some MGB seat covers with the vertical panels, it's easy to remove 1 panel...... this is an ideal width as the seat frame can then be cut and welded 2 1/2 inches (or whatever the panel width is) to get the seats just right!

deni 13th April 2017 12:22

Mister Towed - thank you for your detailed reply, much appreciated. I thought that I've read it in your build thread. Hope you're enjoying your freedom and I hope you have made some progress with your new project.

Mitchelkitman - Thank you too. I am glad you have said that, because I was thinking the same and my covers are with vertical panels, so I will try that first.

Dave P - that is a great idea too, thank you. If my plan with MGB seats doesn't work I will check Streetka seats.

Cheers,
D

deni 16th April 2017 20:56

5 Attachment(s)
Hi everyone,

Had a couple of hours on the car this week. My friend Johnny came over to help me with the gearbox removal. I wanted to inspect the condition of the clutch. So, we marked the prop shaft for later alignment, and removed it.

Attachment 4310


We saw that the clutch was nearly new and didn't have to remove the gearbox completely, which was great news.

Attachment 4311


Close up of the clutch


Attachment 4312


Next job is to clean and paint the gearbox and to continue with the front suspension and the engine.


Attachment 4313



Also, installed the swing spring and 1" lowering block. Lowering block was a tight fit and needed a bit of "persuasion" with a rubber hammer, but we managed to insert it on to the diff casing.

Attachment 4314

deni 16th April 2017 21:06

5 Attachment(s)
So, the rear end is now done.

Attachment 4315


I have removed old diff casing studs and used two of them, shortened them to make screws and plug two unused holes.


Attachment 4316


I have cut grooves in them

Attachment 4317


...and screwed them in to plug unused holes


Attachment 4318



Attachment 4319

deni 16th April 2017 21:18

4 Attachment(s)
New, longer studs were used.

Attachment 4320

All went well, but there is one thing I am not sure about so please, if anybody can advise it would be great. I have tightened the screws as tight as it was possible but I still have a small gap between the lowering block and the bottom plate (first two pictures below), even though the bottom leaf of the spring fits quite well in the gap of the lowering block (last photo).


Attachment 4321



Attachment 4322



Attachment 4323

Mister Towed 17th April 2017 07:48

Nice work. Just a thought, did you loctite the blanking studs in to stop them dropping into the diff casing?

The slight gap between the lowering block and bottom leaf could be to prevent the rest of the leaves in the stack from being clamped in place and allow them to move laterally. As far as I'm aware, the bottom leaf should be fixed to the diff and the rest should be able to slide from side to side -

http://www.canleyclassics.com/techni...swing-springs/

Anyway, keep up the good work.

deni 17th April 2017 09:29

Mister Towed - Thank you for your reply. I did not use Loctite, so thank you for pointing this out. I've only tightened them as much as I could with mole grips, but now you've mentioned this I think I should use Loctite, as the studs are not held with the nuts above the spring like before. So, next time I'm working on the car I will fix this.

Cheers,
D

deni 17th April 2017 09:40

Swing Spring
 
I have another question I hope someone can help me with please. I was reading in a Herald manual that the original spring has the front and the back side, and should be positioned accordingly. I've checked the old spring and I saw the markings. However, I could not see such markings on swing spring. Does a swing spring has front or back side, i.e. the side of the spring that should point towards the engine?

Cheers,
D

Paul L 17th April 2017 09:41

Deni - Not sure if the Herald set up is the 100% the same as the Spitfire (although they are obviously very similar).

But there was a hole in my lowering block that needed to be enlarged slightly for the rear spring to locate properly.

More details in this post:
http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...&postcount=530

Finally, although I did fit a lowering block initially, I eventually removed it as the rear of the car was too low. :rolleyes:

Hope that helps and good luck, Paul. :)

deni 17th April 2017 10:03

Hi Paul,

Thank you for a quick reply. I think I will remove the spring and do it again, but this time using some Loctite (I have noticed that there are quite a few Loctite variations, with different numbers on the bottles, presumably representing a different strength?) and checking the centre hole too.

Btw, how do you make your pictures visible at all times, without logging in? (I upload my pictures directly via this forum page).

Cheers,
D

Paul L 18th April 2017 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by deni (Post 87452)
…Btw, how do you make your pictures visible at all times, without logging in? (I upload my pictures directly via this forum page)…

Deni - I host my photos on an external website (like Photobucket) and then post the links to the photos.

When you attach a photo load on this site, the code appears like this in the post.
( I've added some spaces so that the photo itself doesn't appear. )

[ attach ] 4320 [ / attach ]

However, if I open the photo itself up in a separate tab, I get this link...

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...0&d=1492376892

To turn the link into a photo, you need to add some code to the front and back of it.
( Again, I've added spaces so the photo will not appear. )

[ i m g ] http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...0&d=1492376892 [ / i m g ]

Then if you remove the spaces you get this.

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...0&d=1492376892

Now I am not 100% sure if the photo above is visible without logging in.

There may also be a quicker way of doing this, but I've not actually tried to load photos on here. :rolleyes:

Hope that helps, Paul. :)

PS
if you 'Quote' this post, you will be able to see the photo code in action.

deni 19th April 2017 10:49

Thank you Paul, I thought it must be because you are using a host website to upload the photos. I will try to use the Photobucket website next time.

Cheers,
D

Marc F 19th April 2017 12:41

Good luck Deni - will be interesting to see how you get on.

I am back on my build, the engine saga continues - it never ceases to amaze me how real life keeps blocking me. So I am now trying the "one day a weekend is my time" routine - I will see if that works.

Anybody going to Stoneleigh at end of April?

deni 20th April 2017 12:06

Hi Marc,

Yes, I was wondering what happened with your build. Glad to hear you are back on it and I hope it all goes well.
I agree - "often and little" someone once said, and I will try to stick to it too.
Good luck with your build and I will keep checking your thread.

Cheers,
D

Marc F 20th April 2017 12:11

Yes, I am still plugging away. Sadly, I have forgotten how to post pictures so I need to try and understand that process again.

But real life is a bitch - I envy those who have retired and can devote serious time to their cars. I get pulled from pillar to post on all manner of domestic matters - kids, house, family illness. And don't talk to me about where the money goes...

But I am still going, and still fermenting plans

deni 5th July 2017 10:17

Work Continues
 
4 Attachment(s)
Hi everyone,

I had (finally) a couple of days to work on the car. I could not spend much time working on the car lately, but hopefully, I will have some more time in coming weeks. Didn't do much but I'm a bit further nevertheless. Here are some photos.

Gear box housing cleaned and painted.


Attachment 4474

Attachment 4475

Attachment 4476

Attachment 4477

deni 5th July 2017 10:20

2 Attachment(s)
Frame in primer and painted.

Attachment 4478

Attachment 4479

deni 5th July 2017 11:06

4 Attachment(s)
Trial fit of the frame.

Attachment 4480

Attachment 4481

Attachment 4482

Overall, the existing attachment points on the frame are perfectly aligned but I have noticed that the frame is not quite complete, which is a bit disappointing.
Two attachment points that should mount on the rear part of the chassis (just behind the spring) and the pedals mounting plate at the front of the frame are missing.
Also, the bar on the back bottom (lateral) that should link left and right back sides of the frame is missing - this is maybe left out in the case the frame doesn't align properly, so it is easier to make the adjustments...anyway, I need to fabricate the prop shaft tunnel and the gear box cover, so I guess it is time to learn how to weld. Actually I am looking forward to learn how to weld. A while ago I've bought an arc welder, so we shall see...


I have a few questions please:

There are two small attachment points there on the front of the frame, where the dashboard will be - I guess they are for the steering column?

Two attachments on the top back corners of the frame (just behind the seats) - are they for the seat belts or something else?

The petrol tank area is on the back of the car - I know that many of you have placed your petrol tank at this position but is it safe to put it there and would it be safer to mount it behind the seats?

The fiberglass floor panels - is it necessary to put anything in between the chassis and the floor panels, like some kind of rubber (possibly neoprene), or another kind of a sealant like silicone or a Tiger seal, or is it enough just to bolt them to the chassis?


When I bought the chassis, there was a piece of a double sided sticky tape of some kind (green stripe on the photo below). The green bit could be peeled of exposing a sticky, soft, rubbery kind of tape. Is this something that can be used in between the chassis and the floor panels maybe?


Attachment 4483

deni 5th July 2017 11:14

2 Attachment(s)
While I practice welding and think about the frame modification, I will continue with cleaning and painting the front suspension parts and some engine parts, like rocker cover.



Attachment 4484





Attachment 4485



Thank you all for the support so far and I am looking forward to receive some further advice.

Cheers, Deni

davecymru 5th July 2017 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by deni (Post 89254)


I have a few questions please:

There are two small attachment points there on the front of the frame, where the dashboard will be - I guess they are for the steering column?

Yup and they should be the right distance apart for the U bolt that mounts the Triumph column to the old tub. "should" being used based on experience here! I had to cut and re-weld mine, others used Garage Adjustment Device No.1 i.e. a big hammer!

Quote:

Originally Posted by deni (Post 89254)
Two attachments on the top back corners of the frame (just behind the seats) - are they for the seat belts ?

yup.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deni (Post 89254)
The petrol tank area is on the back of the car - I know that many of you have placed your petrol tank at this position but is it safe to put it there and would it be safer to mount it behind the seats?

There has been some discussion about this over the years with the various Sammio / Ribble / Migilia designs and i think the thinking the last time i remember was that it's as safe as any motorbike!

Quote:

Originally Posted by deni (Post 89254)
The fiberglass floor panels - is it necessary to put anything in between the chassis and the floor panels, like some kind of rubber (possibly neoprene), or another kind of a sealant like silicone or a Tiger seal, or is it enough just to bolt them to the chassis?

A nice thick bead of Tiger Seal all along the contact points does the trick, adds some sealant between the gaps (not that you'll drive it much in the rain) and also adds some strength.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deni (Post 89254)

When I bought the chassis, there was a piece of a double sided sticky tape of some kind (green stripe on the photo below). The green bit could be peeled of exposing a sticky, soft, rubbery kind of tape. Is this something that can be used in between the chassis and the floor panels maybe?

someone has gone a bit Blue Peter and used some double sided sticky tape with one of the sides still covered to add some padding. That'll work and stop rubbing, but if it's not the proper external stuff like they use to put number plates on with, i'd worry how long it would last and, for us, if it would trap moisture!


I hope that's some help?
Dave

deni 5th July 2017 19:03

davecymry - thank you for your quick reply, much appreciated. Very helpful and clarifies a few things for me. I had to laugh about your Blue Peter comment. I think will use Tiger Seal too, it makes sense.
I have read your thread and your Miglia turned out great. I really like the use of aluminium and the riveting inside the cockpit. I am thinking to go the same route (hope you won't mind if I do) but don't know for sure yet. Someone mentioned that attaching a different type of metals to each other can cause corrosion/oxidation?
Did you use 3mm aluminium for the side panels? What kind of metal sheeting you have used for the bulkhead and how thick it is please?

Cheers,Deni.

P.S. I like your heater box fabrication. ;-)

lancelot link 5th July 2017 21:54

If you are going to be doing some welding on your frame , may I suggest adding a bit of bracing for strength and rigidity in places ? ...The S*mmio frames had a slight flex on the rear when off the chassis , but the central tub area ( where you sit ! ) was far more robust than the Miglia version ...I never felt their frames were strong or complete enough ... The S*mmio version's have triangulation as well , which is very important ...I know Miglia's have been built and used with frames just as they are ..but if yours is incomplete and requires work ..you have the opportunity to improve it before it is clad ... just my opinion , obviously its not my car ...

deni 5th July 2017 22:34

lancelot link - thanks for your reply. I would be happy if you would offer any advice on where to place the bracing in order to strengthen the frame. By the way, I am happy with any other advice too really, as this is all very new to me.

Cheers, Deni

Mister Towed 6th July 2017 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by deni (Post 89272)
davecymry Someone mentioned that attaching a different type of metals to each other can cause corrosion/oxidation?

Hi Deni, yes, if you attach two different types of metal directly together one of them will corrode very quickly through galvanic corrosion.

That is a process where environmental moisture - rainwater, condensation, humidity etc., - acts as an electrolyte which conducts the electrical potential between the two different metals, effectively forming a crude battery. This rapidly causes one of the metals - whichever is least noble (resistant to corrosion) - to rapidly dissolve at the point of contact.

Whenever you connect different metals together you need to seal the join with a purpose made anti-corrosive jointing compound or you will get accelerated corrosion. I've listed one below but I haven't tried it and others are available.

The speed of this reaction is quite alarming, a good example being demonstrated in the U.S. show 'Mythbusters', who managed to dissolve a set of prison bars to the point of failure in about two weeks using Mexican Salsa as the electolyte.

Anyway, good luck with your build.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion

http://www.mbfg.co.uk/bonding-struct...s/duralac.html

https://mythresults.com/episode26


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