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Hi Paul, I'm hopefully going to post for the first time in ages about my own build today. I note your difficulties in getting the body to fit over the frame. Might not help but my body does cover the frame by some margin. if you want to have a chat and see if i can help then give me a PM and I'll send a phone number over. Simon.
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With all the work we are prepared to do on these bodies, why not just cut the lower side section like T suggested? It's winter now, no need rush.
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Cordite Body Fitting - Some more thoughts...
First of all thanks for the replies gentlemen and I will start by addressing them. Mr T - If I can't lower the body I was thinking of something along the lines of what you did here... http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...ion/005-21.jpg In this case you effectively raised the height of your body with filler to get it to the level you wanted. I would need to do the same in reverse (if that make sense) to make the body lower & cover the frame. Alpha - Baz, I am pretty sure by the time I have finished there will be no doubt this is hand made! :icon_wink: DonnySoutherner - Thanks for the offer Simon, I will definitely get in touch if I get stuck. Looking at this photo of your body, if the bottom right bolt is through the frame then your body is much lower than mine. http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/...r/CIMG1937.jpg GaryH - I haven't ruled out re-shaping the lower edge, I just want to explore alternatives first. That is the thing I like about this forum, it is great to get feedback & other ideas / suggestions. I also had another look at Andy's demonstrator thread & now I can see this photo with fresh eyes. http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...a/P8190162.jpg It is now clear that he took a big chunk of fibre glass out above the front mounting point. ( Where I simply cut a notch out to drop the body shell either side of it. ) Also the bottom right hand side of the body work is no where need the frame in this photo. I have asked the question, but I don't know if this has been cut as well. A Car For All Seasons: I'm afraid that I couldn't get a photo that did justice to just how hard it was raining today. :rolleyes: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dp...I=w640-h480-no Doors: Well the rain eventually stopped and I was able to get my first real look at my doors in place. The good news is that I think I will be able to get the outside skin of the door to fit the "hole". Although it will require some trimming and filling to get gaps to a MikMiglia standard. The passenger side is the closest 'out of the box': https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Eb...0=w360-h270-no And this is the driver's side: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jH...=w1151-h863-no But the area I am more concerned about is how the inside of the doors look. This is the front edge of the driver's side... https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/7H...c=w647-h863-no And the passenger side... https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/8k...0=w647-h863-no Lancelot Link's Stoneleigh demonstrator is the only Cordite I've seen with doors fitted. Based on this photo, it is clear that the closed passenger door is certainly not flush fitting. http://www.sammio.co.uk/images/DSCF0274.jpg And now the thread AndyP57 posted about door fitting makes more sense (Here). Another thing I have noticed on other Cordite build threads in the inner door lip on the body shell. I have quite a deep lip all the way round, similar to DonnySoutherner's: http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/...herner/146.jpg However, it seems that AndyP57 doesn't have a lip at all on his body shell. http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...ia/BodyOn3.jpg The lip will stay for now until I see more doors fitted. But the real reason to start my 'mock up' of the doors was to establish how the hinges would work. Again this is the Stoneleigh demonstrator... http://www.sammio.co.uk/images/DSCF0270.jpg I have already bought the same hinges for my own car, so I taped then in place in a similar position. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Td...Q=w360-h270-no This allowed me to see what the hinges would be attached to. The hinges have two mounting points for both the body & door. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7659.jpg It was only after I started writing this that I realised I needed another door photo. So here is one of the first doors under construction to show the 'thin' & 'thick' sections. http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18...DSCF0249-2.jpg Now when I post the photo I did take, I hope the words make sense. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7660.jpg One of the door hinge bolts will go through the outer skin edge. The second will go through the inside of the deeper inner door section. ( You can see the edges of this marked out by the yellow release wax. ) This gives me a couple of things to think about... Firstly, I will need to reinforce the bolt holes in both the doors & body work. As I do not want the stress of supporting the doors in action to crack the fibreglass. The second is will I need to be able to access the hinge bolts when fitted? As the original plan was to box in the cockpit interior with plywood. Hmm, more proverbial beard scratching required here I think. But that is the whole reason for doing this work at this stage, so it is all good. Anyway, got to go, so I'll end here, cheers, Paul. :) |
Phew, having read all that I'm so glad I went doorless.
Once you've got them fitted and working I wouldn't waste much effort making them look neat inside. Any decent trimmer should be able to make trim panels that'll hide all the rough edges. Mine were £50 each in black leather and will hide a multitude of sins - http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...ion/001-78.jpg One thing to watch when fitting the hinges will be that, as the doors are curved, not flat, you could end up with a geometric 'lock' if you put the hinges too far apart. Anyway, good luck getting them to work. :pray: |
Doors - Alternative Solution:
Mister Towed - Your reply reminded me to mention my thoughts on an extreme door solution... Maybe the radical alternative to fitting working doors is to simply bond them into the closed position! You could then fill the joins in to be left with a smooth, door less, Spyder type body. Or you could create door "gaps", fit the external hinges & effectively have fake doors that didn't open. However, either of these options would mean losing the side screens as they need functioning doors. Thankfully I don't need to make a final decision just yet, but I will keep all of these options in mind. Steering Column Clearance: I posted these photos on DonnySoutherner's build thread due to his steering column issue. It seems that AndyP57's frame work has a "kink" in it to accommodate the column (Top Photo). Whereas, Simon & myself both have a "straight down" box section piece in our frames (Bottom Photo). http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...a/P8240171.jpg http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/...r/CIMG2053.jpg So we both will need to cut out the existing section of frame & replace it with a longer "kinked" section. The good news is that Simon has given me a great 'heads up' on a problem I was not even aware of. As this would be much harder to fix if I had already bonded the frame and body together. It also reassures me that taking extra time to mock things up will save me time & grief in the long run. The other thing that this has done, is make me realise that I will have to do the following... Learning to Weld: I have been slowly building up a list of jobs that will require welding at some point: - Modify frame to accommodate steering column (see above). - Modify frame to provide clearance for bottom stroke of cluthc & brake pedals. - Modify frame to accommodate my twin pipe brake master cylinder (TBC). - Attach two new seat belt mounting points to the frame (I ordered 4, but only 2 were done). - Make & fit a bracket to support my twin rear silencers (Either to frame, body, or between the two). - Fix pivot bolt hole bracket to hand brake mounting panel (After I managed to knock it off :icon_sad:). - Attach two bonnet hinge mounting brackets to the chassis. It also looks like DonnySoutherner lowered his radiator to fit the bonnet, so may be more work there. So it was time to "Phone A Friend" and ask my best mate if he could teach me the dark art of welding. Thankfully, he is confident he can show me what to do and that, with practise, I would be OK (ish). His welding gear may need a few spares (wire coil, etc.), but that is a small price to pay to borrow it. I take comfort from the fact other builders have started welding from scratch (e.g. Mr T). So as soon as we can find a suitable time, I will start my welding apprenticeship. :cool: Headlight Template - Take 2: This is another one of those small activities that thankfully the weather can not get in the way of. Previously I had prepared a 'Blue Peter' cardboard template as a guide to cutting holes out of the bonnet. I had based this on the original headlight's rubber gasket, but there was a small flaw in this approach... https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Nl...=w1151-h863-no What I had forgotten was that this gasket pushes over the outer headlight shell to form a seal. Although based on the wholesale rust I found on my inner & outer shells, not a very good one! :rolleyes: This means that I would not have a big enough hole in the bonnet for the headlight shell to fit in. So another cereal box was sacrificed to the Cordite building altar & this new template will do the job. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Jc...U=w640-h480-no https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/OM...E=w640-h480-no As I've said before, every little job done, no matter how small, is still another job done. Next Steps: Missed a courier delivery today, which I hope is my lowered floor pans. :pray: I'll keep you posted, Paul. :) |
Missing Parts:
Thankfully I re-read the 'missed delivery' note as, unlike most places, they are closed at the weekend. So collected my parcel after work on Friday which meant spending a long time stuck in traffic. :rolleyes: A big thank you to AndyP57 for arranging this delivery before going on his holiday. :cool: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tS...=w1151-h863-no And this was what was inside... https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/N_...c=w647-h863-no I had a bit of a panic as the wide rims made the lowered section look very narrow. This made me think that my seats wouldn't fit, which didn't really bear thinking about. So despite the rain, it was a quick dash to the bottom of the garden to pull out a seat, and... https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/T5...c=w647-h863-no Phew! OK, I might have a small issue with the seat rail handle, but I'll worry about that later. I will wait for the rain to stop before I try to test fit the floors in the car, so maybe tomorrow. I guess after waiting for over 4 months to get them, waiting another day wont hurt! :icon_wink: But jokes aside, these are a great morale boost, when the delays were starting to get me down a bit. ( Although I'm still waiting for my grill and a few other small bits. ) Which leads me to the other thing that was putting doubt into my mind about the way forward... Lead me not into the path of temptation... Many of you have already seen the Tribute Automotive 'A352' on the forum 'Next Door'. (Thread Here). I know Chris & Dan are professional car builders, but this looks like a very straight forward kit to me. http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/...e/IMG_1703.jpg As my build has progressed I can now really appreciate the genius of the cut down donor approach. I really thought the Cordite's frame would be more straight forward that cutting the bulk head for a Spyder kit. :rolleyes: Whilst I am still convinced this will be the case when Andy re-lauches the Cordite kit next year. For me there is a lot of work just to get simple things like my steering & pedals to work properly. :icon_sad: Which together with the missing parts problems really made me question what I am trying to achieve. I'm happy to admit that I underestimated all of the following: - The work involved in building the car - The amount of free time I would have to do it - The logistical problems of trying to work outside But when I was asked by one of my friends why I didn't just buy a finished car, the answer was simple... Because I want to actually build the car myself and the building part is the reason to have the car. I actually think the A352 is more suited to my limited skills and would be a much quicker build for me. But the Cordite gives me a chance to expand my skills to include welding & working with fibreglass. So whilst it will take me much longer to finish my Cordite, the plan is to keep building until I do! To paint, or not to paint... My original plan was always to try and get the car on the road without a professional standard paint job. As I'd hoped my light blue gel coat would at least give my car some colour until it was painted. But it looks like there will be a lot of body filler around the doors + where the bulkhead & bonnet meet. And depending on my final brake master cylinder solution, filler may be required to tidy this area too. So I plan to at least put some primer over the top of these areas before I take the car for its MOT. There is also the small technical hitch that the paint I used on the headlight rims was a different blue. :rolleyes: I know AndyP57 completed his 'low tech' paint job on the Cordite demonstrator with 4 spray cans. So I am tempted to do something similar as a quick fix, as it is not exactly a huge financial commitment. With luck, an unfinished / being repaired / restores look might be in keeping with my Spartan interior finish. My thoughts on paint were prompted by our recent family half term trip to York where we saw this... https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/eo...0=w270-h360-no A really lovely blue in the daylight and a seriously impressive engine. :cool: I also get the distinct impression that those rivets are not stuck on to look the part. :icon_wink: Next Steps: Catch up on some domestic chores today, watch "Skyfall" tonight & work on the car tomorrow. Cheers, Paul. :) |
Don't lose heart Paul. I know what you mean about the A352, it looks like a very straightforward build. Looks can be deceptive though - with a ready to roll chassis, a fully equipped engineering workshop, the necessary mechanical experience and a few people to help, by going at it full-time a Spyder can be built in about a month. Just take a look at Patoune's timeline on this thread - body collected 2nd February 2011, car finished 13th March 2011.
http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...?t=2717&page=4 For the rest of us though, starting witha rotten donor and tinkering away in a shed in our precious spare time with a few basic hand tools, picking up the skills as we go along, one to two years is a more realistic timescale. As I've posted elsewhere on this forum though, that's the satisfying thing, after spending almost two years putting imagination and effort into building my car with my own hands I'll be able to step back and say with real pride I built that. And for me that's the key difference between what we're doing and the more mainstream (read expensive) kit-cars, you don't just assemble a Sammio, you have to actually build it. Anyway, enjoy Skyfall tonight, although I've heard Adele sing the theme song and I'm sure it's called Skyfow - Let the sky fow When it crumbow We will stand tow Or face it all togever... |
I think you have to put it all into perspective and appreciate what your doing with the experience and facilities you have available. It will take time but as Towed has said it will be your creation and one you will be proud of. Your car with its fibreglass bulkhead and floors will stand the test of time. I know you had a good donor shell which you could have utilized, but those that don't will have to weld them up before the build and possibly more in the distant future so the level work can be there which ever way you choose.
Keep up the good work and updates. |
Hey Paul, your doing a great job, just keep going.
Like any project that has to be fitted in between all the usual life challenges its always a challenge. The way I see it is well I will either sit on the sofa this eve and be numbed by the x factor or get out there and get a bit done. I like Earnest Shackleton's family motto...'By Edurance we conquer' or is that conker? Anyway building a car hardly compares to his achivements, but it keeps me going. And with regard to the cost, some people drink and smoke there way through 5k a year, and have nothing to show for it! It must be frustrating no having a garage though. Could you use a couple of pop up shelters or maybe rent a local lock up for these dark evenings? Yrs,N |
Perspective:
http://judysjottings.files.wordpress...8/11/poppy.gif Mister Towed, Froggyman & SeaNick - Thanks for the encouragement. I will try to keep the faith & simply accept that things take much longer than I expect/hope. I am also sure that the more effort I have to put it, the more pride there will be at the end. I think the fact that I am still at a "tinkering" stage at the moment doesn't help much either. But once I start connecting things permanently I will feel real progress is being made. And in the great scheme of things, this is only a car building project, no one has died. Obviously I didn't want to be working on the car during the 2 minutes silence. But I did get a few hours after that to get a bit more done... Fuel & Brake Hard Lines: I need to order some new clips to re-attach these, but for now I have just unclipped them. This means they will not be in the way of the Cordite frame or the floor pans. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7675.jpg Floor Pans With my new positive philosophy in place, I think I took the initial fitting quite well. :icon_wink: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/HF...Y=w360-h270-no So it was time to attack the box they came in with my Stanley knife and make a template. ( I kept the "hole" for the lowered part of the pans so I could position it within the frame. ) http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7676.jpg https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Sx...s=w270-h360-no I also put one of my seats roughly in place to highlight the impact of its reclining angle. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/So...=w1151-h863-no This means the lowered floor section needs to be in quite a forward position. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/8S...=w1151-h863-no Once this was in place I could measure the relative locations of the framework. I then cut sections out of the outer section of card to avoid the frame, until it fitted. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7686.jpg This gives me a guide to cutting the floor pan which now looks like this. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7687.jpg Before I started cutting the driver's side floor, I thought I'd practise on the passenger side. My first thoughts were to simply flip the template over to the other side, but no. The frame work spaced differently on either side which means the "hole" doesn't line up. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7689.jpg The gap in the driver's side frame is 13 cm, but it is 17 cm on the passenger side. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_s...Y=w360-h270-no https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dR...=w1151-h863-no So I will need to cut another template for the passenger side. At this point I had to stop for lunch with my family, so I will go back out soon. The other things to note is the edges of the floor pans are very "wavy" in places. If this causes a problem when fitting I will cut these sections out and replace them. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF7688.jpg The other thing that occurred to me was to check AndyP57's floors. http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...a/FrameOn2.jpg He certainly has straighter cuts than I do (I thought I needed the curves to help fitting). But I seem to have an extra bracket on the bottom of my frame that Andy doesn't. ( Initially I thought this was the seat belt bracket, but it isn't, I just need to take a photo of it. ) So if this bracket is not required I will cut if off and that might make fitting the floors easier. Which means I will wait a bit longer before taking an angle grinder & hack saw to my floors. This is definitely a job where you want to measure twice and cut once! Skyfall: Well my wife & I took advantage of a baby sitter to go to the cinema last night. I really enjoyed the film and it was good to see the return of the ultimate Bond car... http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/...B5-580x315.jpg Right I'm off out again to do a little more before it gets dark. Cheers, Paul. :) PS SeaNick I can't get a lock up as I promised to be "around" when working on the car. It wouldn't be fair at home if I had to go somewhere else to do the work & I can live with that. Some form of pop up cover in the front drive may be an option a bit later in the build. |
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I think you're steaming along, at least it looks like a Cordite...
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A little progress like that every few days and you'll be surprised how quickly you have something that looks like a car on your hands. Keep up the good work, it's nice to see someone else manning up to the same challenges as I've had, with a few more to boot, or doors to be more specific :)
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Floor Pans - Final Photo
This is the bracket I have on either side of my frame and it appears Andy doesn't... https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-G...Q=w400-h301-no It can't be to bolt the body work on, as the bolt would be visible on the outside of the car. So unless someone knows better, I will simply remove it completely. This should make it easier to position the floors in around the frame work. Rear Lighting Layout: This is a rough guide to how things should line up at the back of the car. ( I will get a better horizontal alignment & even spacing between lights before drilling. ) https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/y0...Q=w360-h270-no But the main reason for looking at this now is to check the vertical alignment. The body work is actually pretty flat at this point, so there isn't much work to do. ( Sorry about the blurry photo. ) https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/aW...s=w360-h270-no I expect to file a little off the body behind the middle of the lights. Then build up with filler a little bit behind the top and bottom edges of the lights. I will also need to build up the area behind the number plate, but again not by much. I need to buy fixings for the lights and wanted to check if the body needed reinforcing. My plan is to list as much work required as possible before I remove the body & frame. That way I can make adjustments before everything is bonded onto place & harder to get at. Wrap Around Dash: My final mock up work for the day was to stick the dash in place with some tape. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/oQ...=w1151-h863-no I wanted to check clearance issues, so got my speedo back out of the box... https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/5D...k=w360-h270-no This would need approx. 15 cm of space to allow for wires, etc. And this would be in a 'behind the dash' depth of around 24 cm. This in turn means there is room for the brake master cylinder to push back into this dash space. Although I still need to work out the impact on the bulk head / bonnet of doing this before I commit to it. There seems plenty of space on the front of the dash for the speedo too. Although I'd want to see the steering column in place before working out my dash layout. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/k2...0=w360-h270-no There may be a bit of work required to blend in the edges of the dash with the bodywork. :rolleyes: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/T-...A=w647-h863-no But once again I will have a read of Mr T's build where he blended his dash in. Seat Belt Bolt Brackets: I've bought 2 x 2 brackets in two different sizes for the lower belt mounting points. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wz...=w1151-h863-no When I eventually get the floors in, this will allow me to see where the seats end up. This in turn will allow me to test fit the seat belts I have and work things out from there. Again, I will make adjustments to the frame when it removed from the chassis. OK, that's all for now, cheers, Paul. :) Replies: DaveCymru - But once I've zipped tied the cardboard in place I will be OK, won't I? GaryH - Cheers. Mr T: - Thanks, I think seeing the floors & seats in place will be a big step forward. |
That bracket is the lower seatbelt mounting point i think.
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In which case I will need to get a nut welded on to the outside face. As this is what has been done on the upper mounting points. Which is why I thought this was just some random bracket. :rolleyes: Cheers, Paul. :) |
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do you think that bracket is big enough to be a seat belt mounting point? It also seems to be on the wrong side of the chassis rail? :noidea: Also Paul, it may be a trick of your photo, but it looks like the weld of the upright member next to that little bracket is cracked? It might be worth getting a triangular plate welded across that corner to strengthen it. Maybe Gary Janes should comment, as the designer of these frames? ...peter (P.S. I have no axe to grind, but I am interested in your personal safety, etc.) |
No worries Peter, good constructive discussion is always worth while and you've got me thinking now... :)
My suggestion was based on the fact that while the frames are obviously different in order to cater for the doors, it does seem to be in roughly the same position as i put my lower belt mounting points (see below) You can also see on my frame that inside the top rear corners of my frame i had similar brackets that i didn't find out until i'd nearly finished mine were top belt mounting points. http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ar/photo-3.jpg |
Peter & Dave - Thanks for the feedback, it all helps.
I don't think the frame is cracked, but I will double check. I need to get my floors sorted out to test fit my seats & seat belt locations. I have bought new mounting points (see one of my posts above) which I can use if needed. I will certainly not be rushing this part of the build. Cheers, Paul. :) |
PS
SeaNick I can't get a lock up as I promised to be "around" when working on the car. It wouldn't be fair at home if I had to go somewhere else to do the work & I can live with that. Some form of pop up cover in the front drive may be an option a bit later in the build.[/QUOTE] It is tricky, I think we have a young family of similar age. Finding time for the project and not missing out on time with the kids is difficult. Davecymru seemed to manage it well! As my car is not at home the only way I can, fit mine in is to work on it evenings, just afterthe kids have gone to bed, like now! (Just waiting for some filler to go off as I type this). I wonder how many other builders are juggling families too, apart from Gary J? |
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