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Belated "After" Photos:
Just enough time to peel back the tarpaulin this morning and take a few photos... The Boot Area: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8330.jpg Passenger Side Bulk Head - Outer Corner: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8333.jpg Driver Side Bulk Head - Top Corner: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8335.jpg If you look closely, you will see the impact of the sleet on the paint. :icon_sad: I just wasn't fast enough covering up the wet paint, so I'll sand that down again. Top Tip: Even if you are just popping out to take some photos, wear your gloves. For the second time in two days I've caught my hand on sharp edges of metal. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8332.jpg Obviously there have been photos of bigger injuries on here. But I'm trying to keep blood off the camera. :rolleyes: Happy Easter, Paul. :) |
Great colour, i wonder what the beakdown would be?
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After a relaxing Easter Sunday with my family, it was back to "work" this morning.
Cordite Internal Framework: I started the day by checking the current gap between the two sections of frame work. As I wanted to be sure that my Frankenstein build option was actually possible. In other words, could I replace the front frame section with the Spitfire bulk head? My plan would be to cut the bulk head so I kept this chassis mounting point section... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8340.jpg I used this slightly oversized cardboard template to check the gap... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8341.jpg The lowered floor pan rests on the frame rail to the right of the carboard. Obviously I could trim the edge of the floor to line up with the edge of the bulk head. Which means that this is definitely possible and that is a HUGE relief. As this allows the rear section of Cordite framework to be used as originally intended. However, while I had the Cordite's cover off, I just couldn't resist... Double Hump: I taped the Ribble independent hump very roughly into position to see how it looks... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8345.jpg The good news is that two humps do look good. :cool: The bad news is I've actually been sent a second driver side hump by mistake. ( Don't worry about it Andy, I'll hopefully see you at Stoneleigh & we can swap. ) If you look closely, the hump is deeper on the right than the left. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8343.jpg And that is the way the spare hump is set up, when I need the deep side to be on the left. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8344.jpg Yet More Body Shell Prep. I continued to work my way around the shell with my screwdriver checking for rust. Unfortunately the passenger side "pad" was also hiding some rusty metal... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8342.jpg So I took the whole thing off, which is a real pain. As it takes both time & effort and usually bits of skin off my knuckles too. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8347.jpg I am leaving the centre pad in position as hopefully water does settle on a slope. I noticed the battery box has been repaired in a slightly odd way. It looks fine from above... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8357.jpg But the rusty section that needed repairing has been left in place below... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8353.jpg Eventually it was after noon, so my power tools could come out to play. First simple job was drilling out the rivets holding on the VIN plate. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8350.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8352.jpg Then I set to work with the grinder to clean the next sections of rust. I then wiped everything down with white spirits to clean off the grime. I had a quick break for a late lunch around 2.30pm while that evaporated. Then it was time to apply more of the rust treatment stuff. After that I started to paint other sections that didn't need treatment. And give a second coat to the sections that were painted on Saturday. Here is a selection of photos from the work done today. Inner Wheel Arch - Driver's Side Before cleaning http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8348.jpg After cleaning & rust treatment http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8354.jpg Inner Wheel Arch - Passenger's Side Before cleaning http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8349.jpg After cleaning & rust treatment http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8356.jpg Rear Section & Bulk Head (with gaps around the areas treated for rust) http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8358.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8359.jpg I'll be back outside in a few minutes to paint over the rust treatment. So the clocks going forward the other night will be a big help. Overall the weather has been good today, although it has threatened to rain a few times. The only problems has been the wind blowing rubbish on the fresh paint. :icon_evil: But what can you do? I'll take that over rain, sleet & snow any day. I'll try to post some more photos tonight if I get the chance. Cheers, Paul. :) Replies Gary - Not sure I understand the question, but the Spitfire shell will be matt black. ( Apparently, it goes on with a gloss finish, but dries to a matt one. ) The Cordite body shell will be light blue (initially gel coat & may be one day painted). |
I think Garyh was referring to the colour of your blood!!
Good progress for you today. |
Spot on Gman.
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Froggyman & GaryH - Sorry for being a bit slow on the colour reference. :rolleyes:
Although I can't imagine the paint shop would be too impressed if customers started bleeding all over the counter and asking for a match! :icon_wink: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Whilst it is sunny outside, when the sun goes down, the temperature really drops. So just a final quick update from me, before I put the tarpaulin back on & call it a night. Final "after" photos for the day... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8360.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8361.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8369.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8370.jpg I'd also started work on the worst areas of the front floor pans... ( Sorry photo quality also dropped with the light fading. ) http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8363.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8367.jpg There is also quite a bit of rot on the driver's side of the bulk head here... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8366.jpg But I think the only way to treat it will be to remove the outside sill... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8368.jpg Which does look like it was welded on to untreated rusty metal behind. :icon_sad: But I'll worry about that another day, take care, Paul. :) |
Will you cover holes with mesh and fibreglass like T did? Or use your new welding skills?
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GaryH - I think I will be carrying out repairs using both fibre glass for some & welding for others.
More details in the post below… Possible Boot Option: One big advantage of using the rear section of the Spitfire is the possibility of having useable boot space. This is how Tribute "next door" approached this on their A352 project … http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/...ootreturns.jpg This boot area also allows the Spitfire floor & wheel arches to be joined to the new bodywork from within. So I would cover / fill in all the holes / gaps in this area with extra fibreglass when doing that work. It would also provide access to the silencer mounting points, otherwise, captive nuts would be needed. However, this A352 had a huge boot lid, as the optional D type hump & tail fin were not fitted. I would need to start the boot lid between the humps & expand out to full width at the bottom. I'd copy their idea of taking the whole bottom section out & mount my number plate & reflectors on the lid. The boot would also provide great access to the rear lights which would also be protected from the elements. As usually, this is an impression, the edges would need to be gentle curves, not sharp angles. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8371.jpg Build Options - Latest Thoughts: The boot option above is one reason why I am happy with the decision to buy the 2nd hand Spitfire shell. I got the whole tub for the price I'd have paid for just the rear section, so I have nothing to lose really. I know I still have to tackle all the metal work underneath the rear section, another big job. But so far, the cleaning up, rust treatment & painting of other sections of the shell has gone well. In fact, the Easter weekend did show what could be achieved by spending a chunk of time on the car. However, it also highlighted just how long some jobs can take, so I must remain realistic about my options. In terms of my priorities, I think being able to use the bulk head must rank ahead of using the whole shell. So I will remove the driver's side sill in order to repair the driver's side bulk head (see previous post / photos). I'm sure that repairing this section may require some new metal to be welded in to strengthen the area. But I can't really assess the work required until I can see the extent of the rust damage behind the sill. At this point, I think I must face the facts that the "fast build" option is now effectively dead in the water. I'd previously posted a picture of the extra bracing Pantoune used on his Spitfire shell for his A352. But that bracing was in addition to the original Spitfire sills that look both solid & firmly attached to his donor. It would take me far too long to come up with something that would work as well as the frame I already have. Whereas, my Frankenstein option just needs me to join the Spitfire bulk head to the rear Cordite frame. A Shell Of Two Halves... Abandoning any thoughts about using the whole shell will actually make my life easier in other ways too. If I cut the shell into two & remove further surplus sections, I should be able to carry it through the house. Once in the back garden, I can put up the "Circus Tent" & have somewhere to continue the preparation work. It would also give my wife her parking space back, once I've cleaned up the mess I seem to have made there. :rolleyes: It will also be a lot easier to turn the front & rear sections over to work on the underside if they are separated. Based on a comment Mister Towed made, I will need to do some preparation work before I start cutting. He mentioned the flex in his bulkhead when it wasn't attached, so I will bolt some box section to it first. I'll put one section across the mounting points at the front & another across the back which should help. The last thing I want to have a look at before cutting the shell in two is the Spitfire’s main floor sections. I’ve got new metal lowered floor pans, but if I use them, then I will probably need to change my seats. My seats are inclined at the back when the base is horizontal and a sloping floor does exaggerate this. I have a few ideas about a possible solution that I need to check before going angle grinder crazy! As always, lots to think about, so until next time, take care, Paul. :) PS With one thing, or another, I'm not going to get a chance to work on the car for over a week or so. :icon_sad: |
Don't dwell too long on the structural rigidity of the Spit body parts you're trying to incorporate. The strength comes from the chassis and frame bolted to it. So long as they're sound the internal and external body panels are purely decorative, so you can remove steel bits and add 'glass where needed. As for the MOT test, just make it all look smooth and rust free and you'll breeze it. :)
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Cheers Mr T. :cool:
Hopefully I'll get a chance to remove the driver's side sill next weekend, then I'll really know what I'm up against. Having looked at your build (again) the Spyder frame extends into the bulk head area. Whereas the Cordite frame comes in two sections bolted together & I'm hoping to join the Spitfire bulkhead to the rear Cordite frame. But I will have the top section of bulk head left in place, unlike the Spyder approach of cutting that section off. ( So I hope that I will have some extra strength from there. ) However, for things like the holes in the floor, I will use fibre glass repairs. ( As the kit uses fibre glass floors. ) Paul. :) |
Quote:
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Feel free to tinker with mine! a boot would be a big big plus!
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AndyP85 & Viatron - I think the more of these "mods" that become "standard" the better. :cool:
I am really looking forward to seeing the first new Navigator coming together. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Just back from a nice week away with my family, hence no progress to report. Although it looks like I didn't miss much in terms of weather while I was away. :rolleyes: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8407.jpg Although I did spend a bit of time drawing up a "To Do" list & some sketches of my options. So with a bit of luck, I'll get a bit more done on the car tomorrow (weather permitting). I'll also try to catch up on all the forum updates I missed while being away. Cheers, Paul. :) PS We took a trip to Warwick Castle & I found a kit car reference from the Middle Ages. A special place for those who think it is a good idea to build a car without Ye Olde Garage... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8383.jpg :icon_wink: |
Sunday - Part 1
A bit of a slow start to the day as I had some domestic duties to perform first thing. But I finally got out just before noon to continue preparing the Spitfire body shell. A bit of "deja vu" with the tarpaulin, as over night it had filled up with water again. Although the fact the sun was shining was a bit different to normal. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8408.jpg I rearranged the car jacks so I could get better access to the front bulk head mounting points. I will be using these to brace the bulk head when I cut the shell in half & wanted to paint them first. Then it was the same process as before, clean up the area before applying the anti-rust treatment. Driver's Side: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8410.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8411.jpg Passenger Side: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8409.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8412.jpg While I waited for that to dry, I attacked the sill on the driver's side. Before: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8413.jpg After: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8420.jpg I knew there was going to be rust behind the sill, so I know it was right to remove it. Unfortunately, when I started prodding it with the "screwdriver of truth, it got worse. :icon_sad: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8424.jpg So I cut a bit more out before cleaning the area up & applying the anti-rust stuff. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8425.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8426.jpg There were a few other areas I gave a quick clean up & treatment to... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8428.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8432.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8431.jpg The "after" photos will have to wait as it started to rain & I had to tidy & cover up. :icon_evil: The other big problem area is underneath the front bulk head mounting frame. Above: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8416.jpg Below: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8421.jpg I will not start sorting this mess out until after I cut the shell in two. As it will be much easier to see what I am doing with the bulkhead turned over. Well it looks like the rain has stopped so I'm heading back out to do some painting. ( The forum is currently off line, so I'll copy & paste this from 'Word' later on. ) Cheers, Paul. :) |
Well the forum seems to be back again, so...
Sunday - Part 2 Thankfully the rain stayed away & I was able to do some bitumen painting. I gave a second coat to the areas I had painted before going on holiday. ( Inner wheel arches, parts of the front bulk head & rear floor sections. ) I then did the lower sections of the bulk head around the mounting point. Driver Side: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8444.jpg Passenger Side: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8446.jpg Followed by the bulk head area where I had removed part of the sill... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8436.jpg In the end I only prepared part of the area under the car. It will be much easier to do the rest when the rear section is separated & turned over. Still, it is a bit more done and every bit counts... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8437.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8439.jpg Finally I did one side of the parts I cleaned up. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8434.jpg Seat Options: Just before I called it a night, I put my new seat in the old shell to check space. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8440.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8441.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8442.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8443.jpg I am slowing coming to the conclusion that I actually need different seats. Whilst I think it might be possible to make the changes required to fit them. It would add a lot of extra work to an already very long "To Do" list. So it might be worth trading an extra cost for an easier build. I will make a final decision when I see how my Frankenstein build evolves. Until next time, take care, Paul. :) |
13th April 2014:
I was so busy unpacking from our holiday that I forgot to mention I'd passed a key mile stone in my build. Saturday marked one year since I went to visit the Sammio factory in Poole & paid my deposit for Cordite #7. Even more scary is the fact that next week will mark the anniversary of my Spitfire donor purchase too. On the one hand it is hard to believe it has been 12 months, yet on the other, time seems to have flown by. I know there is still a long way to go, but I am looking forward to seeing what the next 12 months will bring. Cheers, Paul. :) |
Keep up the good work Paul.
A year might seem like a long time, but It's now two years since I bought my donor and it's flown by. I know some people can put one of these cars together in a matter of weeks, Patoune springs to mind, but for us mere mortals I think a year or two is a realistic timescale. Just do what you can when you can and your car will come together before your very eyes. And just think, how many people you know have built their own car? :icon_mrgreen: |
Mister Towed - Wise words as always, and I must resist comparing myself with other (faster) builds.
In addition to a general lack of time, I am also learning new skills as I go along which takes me longer too. Plus I've spent a huge amount of time beard scratching trying to work out how it all goes together. :rolleyes: So let's see where I have got to with this build when two years are up. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Heritage Motor Centre: We made a trip here during our holiday & whilst I was a bit disappointed overall, I did pick up a few ideas: An alternative to doors - 1953 Lotus MkVI If my attempts at getting the doors to work fail, I could always just leave a big hole in the side of the car... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8394.jpg Boot lid - 1952 Aston Martin DB2 http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8395.jpg This lead me to have another think about what might work on my car if I just stick to a single hump. ( As always, please ignore scale & perspective, but I would push the indicators & stop/tail lights out wider. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8447.jpg Whilst this would give me an asymmetrical boot lid, it would provide a bigger opening to the boot area. And this would help me to "get into" the boot to fibreglass the Spitfire metalwork to the Cordite shell. A simple boot lock - Racing Jaguar XK120 http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8388.jpg This might stop the boot lid opening while driving, but I wouldn't advise leaving anything inside when parked! :icon_wink: Anyway, that's all for now, I just hope the better weather hangs around for the weekend. :pray: Until then, take care, Paul. :) |
That's a shame to hear about the heritage motor center, i was thinking of going there "some time".
To make up for that I don't know if you've ever been, but If you're ever up my neck of the wood you've got to make a trip to the Haynes motor museum, it's superb! http://www.haynesmotormuseum.com/ |
DaveCymru - I think it was the Haynes museum I was thinking of when I went. :rolleyes:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - There is a limit to how many photos you can put in a single post, so today needs to be spread out... Saturday - Part 1: Before I continued with the prep. & painting of my Spitfire bodyshell I wanted to finalise my cutting plans. As there is no point in painting sections that will end up being cut out so that other sections will fit into place. Also, there is no turning back from my Frankenstein build option once I cut the body shell into two! So before I went mad with the angle grinder I thought I should just check how the "fast build" might work. ( I've only seen two basic photos of the green Ribble Navigator to give me any sort of guide to this. ) Cordite Bulk Head: What ever build route I take, part of the Cordite's fibreglass bulk head needs to go, so I started on that first. I thought I'd try to follow the original Spyder body work & leave some vertical bulk head sections in place. These photos are from the "Getting Started" section of the Ribble web site: http://www.sammio.co.uk/images/DSCF0212.jpg One thing I needed to bear in mind was that the heater "bulge" had been cut out of the Herald donor: ( Whereas this currently remains in place on my Spitfire shell. ) http://www.sammio.co.uk/images/DSCF0194.jpg I started with a paper template (using old continuous computer paper thrown out from work ages ago)... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8453.jpg Which I then used to use out a more solid cardboard template... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8454.jpg It was odd to be cutting the cardboard in the back garden (South facing) in blazing sun shine. But then returning to the drive out the front in shadow & needing to put my coat on (North facing). I roped my wife in to supply a spare pair of hands to help me remove the Cordite body from the frame. After using my template to mark up the Cordite bulkhead It was time to set to work with my jig saw. Before: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8459.jpg After: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8460.jpg Then I cut the slots required for the pedal mounting sections & the battery box... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8463.jpg Whilst this might have looked pretty good from the front, this is what the back looked like... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8464.jpg So it was time to put down the jig saw & bring out the angle grinder. I cut off sections of metal behind the rear wheel arches a bit at a time. This became the theme for the day as I continued to test fit the body & see what fouled. Ironically, as the fit became better, it was harder to remove the body shell by myself. :rolleyes: Eventually I reached the point where it was clear the dash needed to go both "back & down". http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8468.jpg So the heater in take box had to go. Before: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8485.jpg Gone: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8486.jpg After: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8487.jpg I also removed the front "lip" on the bulk head as this seemed to be causing problems too... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8504.jpg Other areas to receive the angle grinder treatment were the remains of the windscreen pillars. These were sitting a little proud of the rest of the dash on both sides. Before: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8475.jpg After: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8477.jpg I also trimmed off some of the vertical fibre glass dash panel which left me with a better fit... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8493.jpg Right that is Part 1 and I will be posting Part 2 in just a tick. Cheers, Paul. :) |
Saturday - Part 2:
As the fit at the front got better, I needed to keep working away at the back end to match. It quickly became clear that the panel with the petrol tank filler hole was fouling... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8497.jpg So the middle section had to go. Before: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8499.jpg After: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8500.jpg Further trimming lead to the point where the boot floor started to get it the way... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8506.jpg By the end of the day this petrol tank mounting area was still causing me a fouling problem... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8511.jpg But it was too late to do anything about it as I had to call it a night. After a long day on the car I had a few things to show for it. The first was the piles of metal & fibre glass I had cut away... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8512.jpg And this is where I have got to in terms of Cordite body on top of Spitfire shell. Bulk Head: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8507.jpg Note the use of breeze blocks to replace the axle stands that kept collapsing. ( There are lots of slopes on my drive which didn't help with my use of force. :rolleyes: ) The dash could still go lower with further fibre glass trimming: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8508.jpg The good news is on the passenger side, where Spitfire & Cordite wheel arches line up: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8510.jpg The bad news is on the driver's side where the wheel arches don't line up: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8509.jpg The Cordite body currently doesn't come close to covering the lower sills. But this will get lower when I sort out the remaining "fouling" issues. I am not sure how the petrol tank could be fitted if I need to remove more of the mounting brackets? ( DonnySoutherner used the Spitfire rear wheel arches with the Cordite internal frame. ) But all that beard scratching can wait as I need to be in bed. Lots of family stuff to do tomorrow & I need to do some gardening too! So until next time, take care, Paul. :) |
Gardening schmardening, get on with the cordite Paul :)
You can always tell your family that you're turning the garden into a safe haven for endangered species, like bees, so you can offset the carbon emissions from driving the Cordite and save the planet. Just say you heard about it on gardeners question time, no woman ever listens to that so you'll be on safe ground (pun intended). Interesting developments with the Spitfire shell, it's likely that neither the Cordite body nor the Spitfire shell are symetrical, so I hope it all comes together for you. I take it you're keeping the bits of fibreglass bulkhead handy in case you need a backup plan... Best of luck and I look forward to seeing it develop. |
Well Sunday didn't quite go as planned as my wife was ill in the morning.
So it was just me & my girls who went to the West End to see a show called "Potted Potter". ( Just two men with silly hats & props covering all 7 Harry Potter books in 70 mins - Very funny. ) But then it was my turn to get ill & spend the rest of the day lying down. :rolleyes: Mister Towed - Unfortunately, I still have to catch up on the gardening this week. But it is only fair I do my "chores" if I am getting a chance to spend a bit longer on the car. As for the issues with fitting the Cordite body to the Spitfire shell, it was always a long shot. Ribble are still experimenting with this, whereas Tribute build the A352 around this approach. As for symmetry, I knew the Cordite doors are not the same size and don't line up. But it hadn't occurred to be to check the rear wheel arches are in the same place on each size. As I would really hope that my Spitfire donor's rear axle isn't asymmetrical! However, it is still worth me spending a bit longer assessing what the issues & my options are. A quick summary of my current choices are: - "Traditional Build" - Cordite Body + Cordite Frame Work + Spitfire shell's rear wheel arches. - "Fast Build" - Cordite Body + Cut down Spitfire shell - "Frankenstein build" - Cordite Body + Spitfire bulk head + Rear Cordite Frame + Spitfire rear arches. I have resigned myself to the fact that which ever option I choose there is a lot of extra work to do. I've also had another look at DonnySoutherner's use of the Spitfire's rear arches. He has effectively removed the whole of the petrol filler hole panel & most of its support. The reason this works is that the Cordite framework holds the petrol tank in a different position. AndyP57 has promised to take some more photos of their Green "fast build" Navigator. If they need to relocate the petrol tank, then it is clear what needs to be removed & why. So it looks like further trimming will allow the rear to sit a lot lower than it is doing at the moment. But with the back end nice & low, I think the bulk head will then be too high by comparison. :frusty: The reason I want to use the Spitfire bulkhead is for better mounting of both the pedals & steering column. So the key will be finding out what part of the Cordite bodywork fouls which part of the Spitfire bulk head. In fact, it might be worth removing the Cordite frame work to test fit the Spitfire shell over the chassis. Only then will I be able to clearly see what I am up against in terms of fitting the Cordite body on top. I know the above is a lot of words, but I do find writing things down helps me think. But I'll end with a few more photos from Saturday. This highlight's Mr T's earlier comment about things not being symmetrical. The "lip" on the bulk head for the bonnet to rest on becomes very thin on the driver's side: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8495.jpg These are not great photos to see the impact on the underside of this lip area. But the edge of the fibre glass at the back becomes the point of contact with the Spitfire bulk head. This is the driver's side: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8503.jpg And this is equivalent area on the passenger side: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8502.jpg Finally a few more photos from the trimming of the rear boot section... The first bits to go were what was left of the edge of the boot lid opening: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8465.jpg Then the sides of the boot / rear wing area needed to go: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8472.jpg Finally the corners of the boot floor were the last things getting in the way: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8481.jpg The rear edge of the boot floor may need a further trim when the body goes lower. Until next time, take care, Paul. :) PS Quote:
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Just put the first coat of oil on the garden furniture this evening, so I've got time for a very quick update…
Steering Column Support: This is the view of the steering column support brackets on my Spitfire shell: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8517.jpg This is one of the reasons I started looking at the use of the Spitfire bulkhead / complete shell. * As my Cordite frame needs to be modified to allow the steering column to fit & it has no support brackets. This was the type of "box" I had plannned to insert into a frame rail when I was practising my welding... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8042.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8038.jpg As the Cordite body needs to sit lower on the Spitfire bulk head I checked how the support brackets worked. In the photo below, my fingers mark the spot when the brackets are welded to the top of the dash. Also, if you look closely, you can just see the width of the support bracket below the Spitfire dash vent. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8519.jpg So I think it will be possible to lower the body work over the bulk head a bit more with fouling this. :cool: Obviously I would still need to extend the fibre glass to cover the last bits of Spitfire dash. But I don't need to worry about that until I have a better idea of what I am doing. * Note: Although the steering column was an issue, mounting the pedals was my biggest problem with the Cordite. To resolve this, mods were needed to both the metal frame work for the floor & the fibre glass bulk head. ( As always, these issues be will not be present in the internal frame work for the new Ribble Navigator. ) Ribble Navigator - "Fast Build": AndyP57 has confirmed that the petrol tank would need to be relocated on their "Green" demonstrator. So the next time I have my angle grinder out, I will remove what remains of the original petrol tank mounts. Then I can see how everything sits/looks and find out what it the next point of contact "in the way". Until then, take care, Paul. :) |
Gardening Update - After getting home from work I put the second coat of oil on the garden furniture.
Cordite Update - So with that chore out of the way, I had just enough time to get my angle grinder out. In order to lower the back of the Cordite body shell still further the petrol tank mounting brackets have to go. I now know this is required for the "Fast Build" option as well as if I just use the rear arches & floor section. This is where the Spitfire brackets are currently fouling against the insides of the Cordite wheel arches… http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8520.jpg Ideally, at this point, I'd like to keep as much metalwork over the top of the Spitfire arches as possible. But without these supporting brackets in place, more of the petrol filler panel would have to go too. Before: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8521.jpg After: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8522.jpg And after repeating the cuts on the other side: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8523.jpg I put the body shell back on, but was still having problems with the driver's side wheel arch alignment: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8526.jpg However, when I tried to push the shell forward a bit, the rear boot/valance "lip" was in the way: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8527.jpg Nothing a quick whirl of the angle grinder couldn't sort out. Not easy to see in the photo, but now the rear edge of the Cordite body is lower than the Spitfire boot floor: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8528.jpg This allowed me to get both the driver & passenger arches to align at the same time: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8529.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8530.jpg Note: I didn't get a chance to check which direction the rest of the body was pointing when this happened. :rolleyes: I then put some masking tape along the bottom edge of the Spitfire shell to make it easier to see in the photos. And this is where I got to when I had to call it a day (it started raining a few minutes later! ): http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8532.jpg Removing the petrol tank mounting brackets has given lots of clearance: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8533.jpg But it does look like the metal panel above the wheel arch is the next fouling point. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8534.jpg Well, that and the wheel arches themselves which I have kept as wide as possible up until now. They will be the next area to cut away when I get the chance (probably at the weekend). I'm also grateful to AndyP85 for sending me a photo of the "Fast Build" Green Navigator: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-K...423_144240.jpg So as always, lots to think about, cheers, Paul. :) |
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No worries mate, anymore let me know |
Looking like it's slowly but surely coming together Paul. Keep up the good work. :whip:
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Gardening Update - I managed to get another big chunk of my "To Do" list ticked off this evening.
So with a bit of luck I will get the chance to do a bit more on the car at the weekend (weather permitting). Rear Wheel Arches - More Thoughts I've decided not to trim the Spitfire wheel arches until I have temporarily put the whole shell onto the chassis. As it occurred to me that lining up the arches independantly of the wheels was bound to end in tears. :rolleyes: Clearly the Cordite body work is slightly narrower than the Spitfire original (otherwise it wouldn't foul at all). But if I allow the Cordite body to drop too far, then the tyres will foul the body work & that wouldn't be good. So I will leave this work until after I have been to Stoneleigh & had a good look at the Silver Navigator. Which leads me nicely into the next round of jobs I need to tackle… Planned Engine Re-Start: I want to re-start the engine before I remove the Cordite framework, as the petrol tank is currently bolted to it. There are also a number of smaller jobs that I really should sort out while the body shell is out of the way. These include tightening all the engine & gearbox nuts/bolts, as oil has slowly weeped on to my drive. :icon_sad: Now would also be a good time to put the heat wrap bandage around the main sections of the exhaust pipes. That way, when I do finally work out what build route I will be taking, I can actually start doing it for real. Until next time, take care, Paul. :) Replies: AndyP85 - Thanks for the photos of the Green Navigator demonstrator, they were a big help. :cool: It looks like you have taken another chunk off the wheel arches since the initial photos were posted. So it would be great to see where the Navigator body lines up now & how much clearance to the tyres you have. Which reminds me to ask what size wheels and tyres are fitted so I can compare to my own? Misted Towed - Cheers, I'll be much happier when I know what way this build is heading. There are pros & cons with all my options, but I just want to choose the best path and get on with it now. If I can make use of the brighter evenings to keep chipping away at it, that will be a big help too. |
Didn't get a chance to do anything at the weekend, but knew I was at home today so I had high hopes.
I had to wait for our new washing machine to be delivered, but once I'd plumbed that in, I could play outside. First job was to try and re-start the engine, so I dug out the wiring loom & all the other bits I needed. Without the Cordite body in place, it looks like I've made no real progress at all... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8553.jpg Normally the engine has always burst into fire once I've connected everything up, but not today. Eventually the battery went flat as I continued to check all the wires had been connected properly. :rolleyes: So I stuck the battery on charge and turned my attention to the Cordite dash area. The front of the Cordite body should be able to get a bit lower over the bulk head so I trimmed a bit off. Before: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8556.jpg After: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8558.jpg In order for the Cordite body to drop any further I might need to "reshape" the top of the Spitfire bulkhead. This may involve the use of a big hammer to add some dents to accommodate the Cordite's curves. I then had another quick look at the rear wheel arches & this confirmed that I need the wheels in place. The good news is that if the Cordite body is "centred" on the Spitfire arches it doesn't foul the shell below. ( Clearly the body had shifted a bit when I took the "fouling" photo in an earlier post. ) The bad news is that if I trim the Spitfire wheel arches, the body shell will be lower than the existing "clearance". Which is why I will be bringing a tape measure to Stoneleigh to check the the arc of the tyre movement. I also found this photo of DonnySoutherner's set up which was a big help. ( He just using the rear section of Spitfire body work & I might end up doing the same. ) http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/...r/CIMG2041.jpg Then I went back to trying to start the engine and still no joy so I started checking the fuel line. The good news is I think I found the problem... The grommet holding this section of fuel pipe had split... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8559.jpg So instead of a nice rubber hose connection from the fuel pump... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8562.jpg I found this... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8561.jpg I can only guess that the damage was done when I removed the body shell the other day. :icon_sad: But no sooner had I straightened the kink out when the battery went flat again. :frusty: At which point, I must confess, I had a major sense of humour failure & lost all motivation. I know the only way to complete this build is one step at a time. But this relatively small set back seemed to knock me for six for some reason. So I decided to down tools & catch up on some of my domestic chores instead. Hopefully my visit to Stoneleigh on Sunday will re-motivate me a bit. Cheers, Paul. :) |
Stoneleigh will help motivate a few others out there too (inc. me!)
I'm sure everyone who had a go at building their own car had (or thought they had) insurmountable problems and false starts... There are so many different problems with a build and many ways of tackling them... as evidenced on this site. |
Thanks Nigel. :cool:
I think yesterday was just one of those days where the "drip, drip, drip" of issues finally caught up with me. As long as I don't think about the all the jobs ahead and stick to the ones at hand I should be able to keep going. I feel more positive this morning and you are a great example of someone taking on bigger challenges than you expected. Cheers, Paul. :) |
Don't lose heart Paul, there is always light at the end of the tunnel.
Best to find out these little issues now, rather than when the body is bonded on and you are trying to scrabble around underneath and inside to find the faults! So well done, and keep at it! With the lighter evenings and sunny May predicted, we should all feel a little more motivated this month! |
Engine Re-Start - Take 2:
Before I ordered some replacement parts, I realised I had a possible temporary fix sitting in a box somewhere. ( As I had already bought a length of braided rubber fuel line for the petrol tank end of the fuel system. ) The only problem is that my stash of car parts & tools has become a "hoarder next door" type pile. :rolleyes: http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8563.jpg Jokes aside, my lack of storage has become more of a problem than working outside (which is still a pain). Thankfully I managed to find the box with the fuel line in it so I removed all the existing hard & soft lines… http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8565.jpg Then I just attached the new line which is clearly too long, but I hoped it would still work… http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8566.jpg Then it was back to the old routine of reconnecting the wiring loom to the (hopefully) fully charged battery. Finally, it was time to turn the key & see if the kink in the old fuel line was preventing the engine from starting. Despite giving it a bit of time to get petrol back through the pipe, it still wouldn't burst back into life. :icon_sad: I put a spare spark plug in each of the HT leads in turn to test for a spark which I had. At some point in the attempts at starting, a wire had worked loose from the coil. So I tightened that up and re-fitted it, just in time for the battery to give up the ghost again. :rolleyes: Oh well, I'll have another go, another day. On the plus side, it is great to be able to work outside in the sunshine after work. :cool: Until next time, take care, Paul. :) Replies: TlrTone - Cheers, I plan to make sure the car drives at the "moon rover" stage before bonding the body. The engine was working fine a few months ago, so I really hope it will be something simple. :pray: |
Im jealous, i have woken up every morning this week dreaming of mechanical work and not bodywork, i have white dust exiting every orrifice in my body :-(
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Paul , stop worrying mate, the car will burst into life. They are so basic it s fuel has probly drained back . But all of this can be done at the end of the build.
You will get there in the end mate, get stuck in and cut the old metal away and sit the new one on, whats the worst that could happen , you might need to weld in a little metal to make contact with the fibreglass. Its not easy doing what your doing, as realy , the body wasnt ment to fit this way , but cut away , and sit the body on , and if it was me , make some nice templates , so you can get a close touching point ready to glass together. By the way dont think i was telling you off :loco: , i was realy kicking your butt :thumb: , only jocking mate. It will be great when done , do a bit , and enjoy it. |
Viatron - I assume the bodywork is for your other car project, or have you started on your Navigator?
It also sounds like you might become a bit more involved with the Ribble project, so good luck with that too Mac. Mikmiglia - Don't worry Mike, a kick up the ar$e is probably needed to help me finalise my build plan. I know the Cordite body work wasn't really designed to fit over the Spitfire shell in the way I am testing it. So there would still be extra work required to reinforce it & get a good join between the fibreglass & metal. But in my defence, parts of the framework don't appear to have been designed to fit anything at all!! :icon_wink: I don't trust my own mechanical skills to leave the engine not running until the end of the build. Plus it would be a great for me to hear it running again before I remove the frame & petrol tank. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gardening Update We have a family Bar-B-Q planned for this afternoon & I managed to finish all my gardening chores last night. :cool: What also occurred to me was my garden took a number of years of hard work to get into the shape it is now. This was achieved by tackling one job at a time & accepting that lots of jobs take longer than you expect. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8567.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8569.jpg Similarly, the Summer House* took a lot of effort & pushed my building skills, but was worth it in the end. ( Although when I think back, rain was also a major pain when I was trying to sort out the concrete foundations. :icon_evil: ) http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8568.jpg * Originally promised to my daughters as a play area, but now a car parts & tool storage facility. :rolleyes: So ironically, spending time in the garden away from the car has encouraged me to continue chipping away at it. But the main reason for covering my gardening chores is that it means I now have full permission to head off to... Stoneleigh Kit Car Show: I will travel up to the show on Sunday morning & am looking to forward to both the Ribble & Tribute stands. I'll bring my camera, tape measure & note book to have a good look around the Navigator demonstrator. I really hope this will fill in some of the gaps in my understanding of how everything goes together in the build. It will also be good to finally meet AndyP57 in person & hopefully a few other forum members too. :cool: Have a good Bank Holiday Weekend, Paul. :) |
We're looking forward to meeting you at last too! Logistics have become a little more complex than originally planned (I've already been to Stoneleigh last night to drop off our accommodation and have Two more trips with cars to go today!) But both Andyp87 and I will be there at the stand, looking bright eyed and bushy tailed ready to enjoy the company.
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After a long day with our family Bar-B-Q on Saturday, it was hard getting up & out yesterday.
But by 9.10am I'd driven the 80+ miles & was waiting for the gates to open... Stoneleigh Kit Car Show: I knew I couldn't stay all day, so I stuck to my priorities of seeing a real Cordite/Navigator. I'd forgotten to write down where the Ribble stand was, but that's when AndyP85 came in handy. He is a "Big Lad" and I could spot him from a long way off & AndyP57 was there too. It was great to finally meet in person after such a long time & we had a great chat. I also crawled around the car with my camera, tape measure & note book & asked lots of questions. It really was a big help and it was worth the trip for my time here alone. :cool: Here are some of the areas I wanted to cover... Stance: The first thing I wasn't to check was the overall height of the car. This demonstrator does not have a lowering block fitted at the rear & has standard springs at the front. It also has 13" wheels, which are the same size as the ones on my donor. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8634.jpg Clearly, this is not as near to the ground as lowered cars like Mister Towed's... http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...ps25a603d7.jpg Or Barry's (which just happened to be on the same page of Mr T's build thread as the photo above)... http://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/...910/run063.jpg But in reality it is still low enough to get into without any problems despite the lack of doors. ( More on doors later on.) [i]Rear Wheel Arches:[i] The Demonstrator has around 11cms of clearance from the top of the tyre to bottom of the wheel arch. I will bear this in mind when I finally test my Spitfire shell & Cordite body combo over my chassis & wheels. I was also able to confirm that the body shell does not cover the whole tyre. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8618.jpg Dash Board to Steering Wheel Gap: My plan to use the Spitfire bulkhead will leave metal "poking out" beyond the Cordite dash area... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8558.jpg However, a standard Spitfire column sits quite a way back from the body work anyway... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8605.jpg So extending the Cordite dash back over the Spitfire bulkhead should be OK. Pedals: I forgot to ask if the brakes were connected, but the brake pedal did hit the floor when pushed... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8617.jpg This was one of the main reasons for wanting to use the Spitfire bulkhead. As there was significant re-working of the frame needed with lots of knock on impacts. ( More of the new Navigator developments later. ) Seat Belts: I have got a set of these belts myself after Viatron posted the link the other day... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8594.jpg It was also good to see where the mounting points were, this was behind the seat... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8599.jpg Doors: AndyP57 simply sealed his doors closed which you can see from the inside. ( Although the plan is to extend the internal panelling to cover this. ) http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8608.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8609.jpg But the amazing thing for me is that if you were looking from the outside you'd never know... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8611.jpg Which is the comment I made on Mr T's build thread the other day. Just a single coat of primer leaves no traces of how you achieved the final body shape. Sealing the doors is still my last resort solution if working doors can't be made. Front Wheel Arch & Bonnet: There clearly plenty of clearance to play with in the front wheel arch... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8614.jpg Although the fact that the bonnet can not be fitted before the re-body inspection is a real pain. ( You need to remove part of the chassis in order for the bonnet & its hinges to fit. ) Also the Demonstrator has opted for a fixed bonnet (4 bolts) and an access panel instead. So technically, I have still not seen even a photo of a working Cordite bonnet yet! However, if you look closely at this previous photo you will see the front corner of the access panel isn't flush. That is because the top of the radiator cap just fouls the bonnet & needs to be lowered a fraction. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8634.jpg So I'll worry about the bonnet another day & Mr T has shown it can always be adjusted to fit. Rear Lighting: Even simple things like seeing the rear lights I also have in place was a help. The rubber edge seems to take up any slight curve in the body shell with no extra work... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8592.jpg Navigator - MkII AndyP57 showed me some photos on his mobile of the work being done on the new mould. These will be published on here shortly and it will be good to see what they are doing "full size". By the looks of it, some of the Spyder's alignment issues have remained with the Cordite/Navigator. The only good news is that I can take comfort from the fact it isn't just me who can't square things. Tribute: Finally I also wanted to say hello at the Tribute stand as I love the work Chris & Dan are doing. I had a brief chat with Chris and had a look at the way the A352's boot lid worked. I might also steal their idea for supporting the side screens... http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8625.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8626.jpg Note: There are some extra brackets & screws in the photo as this was "thrown together" for the show. It took me a while to realise that the "slammed" low rider effect was due to the missing chassis! http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...L/DSCF8621.jpg Shopping: I did pick up a few things at the show, but I'll cover them another day. With a bit of luck, I might even get a chance to work on the car later on. I've just got to take my daughters on a quick shopping kit and then take it from there. Cheers, Paul. :) |
http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/...psb57962f6.jpg
Now that's what I call a stance! I 'king love it! Now then Paul. Don't get yourself in too much of a tizzy wondering about how other people have done things. The first rule of Sammio building is 'do it your way'. By all means borrow ideas from other builders but these aren't production cars or even production kits. Every chassis and body is different and what works for one might fail on another. For example, the silver Cordite really needs lowering and some decent wheels fitting before you'll be able to see how the front arches are going to look. Those seventies slot mags are too small and too wide to give any clue and they need to go on ebay. I've gone with a 3" lowering block at the back, 95mm cut out of the front springs and standard MGB 14x4.5 wires with 175/70/14 tyres to get the stance I wanted. I then found that there was an ugly, unequal gap between the arches and tyres with the bonnet resting on top of the engine. Even cutting clearance holes all over the place didn't eliminate the horribleness of the uneven wheelarch gap, which is why I had to add all my scoops and bulges, drop the radiator another inch and move the dynamo to get the front arches to look right over the tyres. By contrast, Phil J has lowered the two cars he's built roughly the same amount as mine, but only needed a small bulge to clear the front carb, a modest scoop to clear the thermostat housing and a lowered alternator and radiator to get the bonnet low enough to look right. Both his engines were mounted lower than mine to start with (different mountings?) and he's been able to fit 175/80/14's which would foul on the front bulkhead of mine, even though I moved the bulkhead back 20mm and bashed in the front faces with a lump hammer. The result is that his cars look great without needing as much modification as mine did to acheive the same effect. :rant: So, abandon convention, go out there and, as a famous manufacturer of trendy trainers would say, just do it! |
Here we go, this is what I mean about the front arches. First picture is after cutting a single scoop into the bonnet, second is after a lot more clearancing, including moving the dynamo and radiator again and adding both a second scoop and a bulge -
http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...ion/001-75.jpg http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...ps79e6b952.jpg |
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