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Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Vintage and Classic Roadster Kit Car Builds

Vintage and Classic Roadster Kit Car Builds For Vintage and Classic era kit cars. Post your build reports, problems and progress here

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  #161  
Old 31st May 2015, 22:43
8 Valve Ed 8 Valve Ed is offline
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Looking good Peter, those Volvo mounts may be the answer, quite handy.

How did the suspension look with the engine sitting in the chassis?
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  #162  
Old 1st June 2015, 14:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8 Valve Ed View Post
Looking good Peter, those Volvo mounts may be the answer, quite handy.

How did the suspension look with the engine sitting in the chassis?
Hi Robert,

Yup, it's coming on nicely and not having to make some engine mounts is a real bonus.
I didn't notice too much change to the suspension but it's not at all optimised yet. I'm planning to rebuild the front suspension using Granada hubs, adjustable track control arms and Cosworth brakes. (Providing the brakes fit within the steel wheels that I've bought). New coilovers and springs are also planned as the old shocks are probably now 20 years old although zero miles I am assuming the springs were supplied by the Royale Motor Company when the kit was purchased but they are an odd spec as they look like they will become coil bound before the suspension bottoms out? The old back copies of the Royale Owners Club magazine have a variety of conflicting advice!!
I've also got some wierd positive camber on the rear wheels that I haven't figured out the cause of yet

All part of the fun of building or rebuilding these old kits, ....as you know

....peter
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  #163  
Old 1st June 2015, 15:19
8 Valve Ed 8 Valve Ed is offline
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Yes indeed they are interesting to say the least, take nothing for granted.

Sounds an interesting mod, the Berlinetta is sitting far too low, for me anyway, I was hoping for 200mm ground clearance, but I doubt if I will have 140mm as it stands. Way too low, it even grounds going into the garage. I have had to dig a level path for it to get in and out so it doesn't gaunch the sump, which is 15mm ABOVE the bottom of the chassis...

I think I probably need some un-cut original Cortina springs as a starting point. If such things still exist!
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  #164  
Old 2nd June 2015, 19:56
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Default Engine movement?

One drawback of moving my engine mounting forward by 35mm is that I now have a point where there is only a small clearance between the sump and the chassis.

Sump Clearance by marlinpeter, on Flickr
(This photo was taken looking down from above the chassis just behind the nearside engine mount)

The gap is about 6mm and I'm wondering how much the engine and gearbox will move forward under hard braking.
I know this is a 'how long is a piece of string' question and it depends on the weight of the engine plus the stiffness of the rubber in engine mounts and the gearbox mounts, but just wondering what the views of forum members based on their combined experience.

I think it would be possible to cut off the corner of the sump and have a flat plate welded over the hole but don't want to go to that expense if it's not necessary. Also, any advice on where you would get an alloy oil sump welded would be appreciated.

...peter
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  #165  
Old 2nd June 2015, 20:36
Amir Manzoori Amir Manzoori is offline
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Hi Peter,
Must say there must be lots more people like me who enjoy reading about your progress, and what we see and read on these pages, to me, is dedication and love for what the end product is going to be. Good luck
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  #166  
Old 2nd June 2015, 22:29
8 Valve Ed 8 Valve Ed is offline
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6mm is getting close but, there is a very easy way to stop the engine moving forward under mild impact or heavy braking; use a Morris Minor gearbox restraint. They had a short piece of steel cable which was attached to the back of the gearbox and was tensioned through the gearbox cross member with a nut and locknut. The reason was to counteract the pull forwards when the clutch pedal was pressed, if the cable snapped as thy did when they had a few miles on the clock, the clutch stopped working because the engine just moved forward instead of pulling the clutch arm.

Else a small bump stop mounted strategically in front of the sump?

Welding the sump is simple enough with TIG but would need totally degreasing in the weld area at least. Oil and TIG welding don't mix. Old aluminium sumps and crankcases can be sods to weld because the older aluminium can be porous and when heated the oil comes out of the pores in the metal and makes it almost impossible to make a decent weld. I would expect a modern aluminium sump to be OK.

If you do decide to weld a corner, it might be wise to bolt the sump to your spare engine block to stop it from distorting with the heat. I would discuss that with your welder, but be aware, they can twist unexpectedly.

Last edited by 8 Valve Ed; 2nd June 2015 at 22:34.. Reason: Afterthought...
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  #167  
Old 2nd June 2015, 22:31
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6mm is tight. I think if you can grab hold of the engine and rock it for and aft it will give you a good indication of how much clearance you actually need. I suspect you will be on the limit although once you have the gearbox mounted it should reduce engine movement a bit more. Could be simple fix to re-drill the mounting holes to give a bit more clearance.

John
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  #168  
Old 3rd June 2015, 05:46
Amir Manzoori Amir Manzoori is offline
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Another possibility to increase the clearance between sump and chassis, corner of the sump, which from the picture is the only part close to the chassis, could be reshaped to give you the required clearance, providing the corner to be reshaped doesn't interfere with the internal components like oil pump strainer etc. Mind you, it would require aluminium welding.
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  #169  
Old 3rd June 2015, 05:52
Amir Manzoori Amir Manzoori is offline
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Now I realise I should read all the posts before any suggestion. Sorry.
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  #170  
Old 3rd June 2015, 07:49
garyh garyh is offline
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is the worry that it may crack the sump if it hits?
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  #171  
Old 3rd June 2015, 16:29
reneanglia reneanglia is offline
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If it is only the corner of the sump you can notch the chassis.
Easier to weld and in case of replacing sump you don't have to modifie another sump.
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  #172  
Old 3rd June 2015, 19:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterux View Post

I think it would be possible to cut off the corner of the sump and have a flat plate welded over the hole but don't want to go to that expense if it's not necessary. Also, any advice on where you would get an alloy oil sump welded would be appreciated.

...peter
Peter. I have a contact that welds ali (tig) should you reach that decision. He normally charges not a lot. Sometimes the obvious solution is also the simplest....

Cheers Robin
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  #173  
Old 6th June 2015, 19:39
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Many thanks to you all above for some great ideas and some concerns to ponder on.
I think my next step is to bolt all the main ancillaries back on to the engine and then re-fit the main body tub, bonnet sides, etc and see how it all fits together.
I can then see which options work best.....

...peter
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  #174  
Old 6th June 2015, 20:57
8 Valve Ed 8 Valve Ed is offline
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Sounds like a plan!

Good luck and don't forget to allow for the 'invisible' stuff, which you have taken off but has to be put back...

I have had to chop a bit of my battery isolator key because I hadn't allowed for the seat belt reel, not prepared to re-locate either so something HAD to give.
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  #175  
Old 9th June 2015, 20:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8 Valve Ed View Post
Sounds like a plan!

Good luck and don't forget to allow for the 'invisible' stuff, which you have taken off but has to be put back...
You're right there is lots of things to find a home for under the bonnet.

I've now temporarily bolted the major ancillaries back on to the engine and have bolted back on the innner wings and front nose cone.

It all seems to fit surprisingly well (maybe John Barlow who designed the Sabre had a straight six engine in mind?)

No issues with the height of the engine....

M52B28 in Royale Sabre by marlinpeter, on Flickr

Or between the inner wings....

First position of M52B28 fitting by marlinpeter, on Flickr

The front left corner of the rocker cover just clears the inner wing. Just a 3mm gap here so may need to move the engine across a little.

Rocker cover to inner wing clearance by marlinpeter, on Flickr

Bulkhead clearance is now good and heater pipes are clear of the back of the engine......

Bulkhead clearance by marlinpeter, on Flickr
Heater pipe clearance by marlinpeter, on Flickr

Alternator and Steering pump both clear suspension without any issue....

Alternator/steering pump clearance by marlinpeter, on Flickr
Alternator/steering pump clearance by marlinpeter, on Flickr

Throttle body clearance looks good but I need to fit the rest of the MAf and inlet elbow gubbins.

Throttle body by marlinpeter, on Flickr

Exhaust manifold fits without any obvious issues....

Exhaust Manifold by marlinpeter, on Flickr


Well that's it so far.....just got work out where the put the radiator, header tank, Inlet filter, brake servo, HP fuel pump and filter, Fuel swirl pot, windscreen washer bottle and probably a host of other things I've forgotten for now


...peter
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  #176  
Old 9th June 2015, 20:48
8 Valve Ed 8 Valve Ed is offline
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How's the steering shaft (column)?
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  #177  
Old 9th June 2015, 21:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8 Valve Ed View Post
How's the steering shaft (column)?
Not tried it yet but looks like it'll be OK.

The shaft runs behind the engine mounting like this....(this shot was taken when I had the steering column in to move the car from my lockup garage)

Steering Column to bearing link by marlinpeter, on Flickr


.....but it will need to be checked
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  #178  
Old 10th June 2015, 09:40
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You've been busy :-) All looking very good. As the original instalation was 4 cylinders I think my main concern would be the length - but that looks fine as well.

As you say, perhaps the car was conceived with a 6 cylinder in mind? They do make the best noise ;-)

Cheers, Robin
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  #179  
Old 10th June 2015, 20:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinClan View Post
You've been busy :-) All looking very good. As the original instalation was 4 cylinders I think my main concern would be the length - but that looks fine as well.

Cheers, Robin
Yeah, been spending a bit more time in the garage but all the ancillaries are only temporarily fitted with a few nuts and bolts. Putting it all back properly and installing the wiring loom will take much longer.
At the moment I'm kind of doing space planning to work out where everything will fit.

I've had a look at the air intake elbow and MAF sensor. It clearly doesn't fit in its original position pointing towards the front of the car.

Air Inlet by marlinpeter, on Flickr

But borrowing the standard Marlin solution, reversing the elbow seems to work.....

Possible Air Inlet solution by marlinpeter, on Flickr

Air Inlet possible solution by marlinpeter, on Flickr

It's a bit tight so I've got to be carefull how much I move the engine across to clear the rocker cover on the other side.

Air Inlet clearance by marlinpeter, on Flickr

Just got to figure out where to put the air filter and 'cold air' input. I've also got to re-route the ICV pipe.

I also got out the windscreen washer bottle that I bought nearly two years ago. I think it'll slot in somewhere like this but shouldn't be too much of an issue to find a location.

Washer bottle possible position by marlinpeter, on Flickr

Next up will be locations for the brake servo, Fuel pump, filter and surge tank.....

...peter
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  #180  
Old 13th June 2015, 20:53
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Default More Space Planning....

As part of my 'space planning' exercise to make sure everything fits, I've been on a bit of a buying spree....

I bought my Fuel Pumps from Rally Design at the Stoneleigh kitcar show where they had some good deals on their own 'white labeled' pumps. These worked out at about 50% of the price of branded parts. I've opted for a standard Fuel filter because it is designed for the BMW engine, cost effective and easily replaced, if necessary.

Fuel pumps and filter by marlinpeter, on Flickr

The cradles are from ebay at only 9.99 delivered! Excellent value for money and fitted perfectly.

High Pressure fuel pump by marlinpeter, on Flickr

Next up is an enclosed Air Filter from Compbrake Motorsport....

Air Filter with cold air input by marlinpeter, on Flickr

...another bargain for 36!

It's an enclosed cone filter with a cold air input pipe.

Air Filter internal cone filter. by marlinpeter, on Flickr

For over a year I've had my Dual Circuit brake servo for which I'm now making some mounting brackets...

Remote dual circuit brake servo by marlinpeter, on Flickr

I also picked up a really good tool for setting M8 rivnuts...

M8 Rivnut / Nutsert tool by marlinpeter, on Flickr

....and it works great.

Finally for now, I bought a couple of heater hose elbows. I had to re-position the heater box further back....

Heater hose elbows fitted. by marlinpeter, on Flickr

This will allow me to move the engine back by 10mm to allow for better sump clearance.

More bits arriving next week....

...peter
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