Hydraulic Clutch

eaa53 · #1 2nd January 2008, 18:37

What is needed to convert to hydraulic clutch?

Based on the recommendations of the forum I have investigated the options and it looks like a completly different pedal box!

OK so I need a slave and the master and a bit of pipe but is there anyway of fitting the hydraulic's too a cable box i.e. substitute just the clutch pedal, pivot and add the master cylinder?

It does not appear possible from what I can seen at the scrap yard.

At this time I have full access to the installed and modified pedal box but the removal and modification to a different box is going to be time consuming.

Although based on my time driving the donor 200 with a cable clutch I feel the mod is worth the effort.

alackofspeed · #2 2nd January 2008, 19:53

John,

I took a Golf Mk4 clutch pedal, a Honda slave cylinder, and a few odd shaped pieces of steel plate and bunged them together. Owing to the position of the brake servo, I couldn't see an easy way of using the standard clutch pedal.

If like me you tend to question the work of others, this will be the first of many modifications you make to the kit.

Cheers,

John.

limpabit · #3 3rd January 2008, 06:15

It all depends on what engine you go for.

1.6 K series. No need. Nobody seems to be having problems with the cable. I think this is because of the way it exits from the rear of the tunnel and attaches to the clutch arm.

1.8 K/T series. Same box really (PG1). Go hydraulic as cables have been snapping on regular basis. I decided to go hydraulic due to needing great force to press the clutch pedal down.

Honda biys seems to be going hydraulic as well put can't comment on the angles or the feel of the cable.

Mine was a T series. I used the original Rover Pedal, Rover 600 slave and master cylinder, Rover 800 clutch arm and gearbox bracket.

We totally butchered the Pedal and made up a plate to fix it to.

Have a look at the build diary. It has some pictures here. I can send you some blown up ones if you want.

http://www.kitcar.good-hosting.co.uk/

Ex-Biker · #4 3rd January 2008, 09:46

It is worth having a look at a R600 set up.

I seem to remember it uses cable from the clutch pedal to the master cylinder actuator.

alackofspeed · #5 3rd January 2008, 09:51

John (eaa53) has a Rover 200 BRM (I think) donor, certainly a K-series, and I believe a PG1 at it’s the 1.8 K. I guess on that basis a hydraulic clutch is a prudent inclusion at this stage.

For the record, I don’t think any of the Honda builders have fitted a cable, so the only car with a cable is Marlin’s own? I’m pretty sure theirs is cable. What it feels like I’ve no idea, but I would suggest it’s one heavy swine of a thing. To get the necessary master cylinder travel, with the reduced pedal length dictated by the Marlin’s footwell, my Honda hydraulic is quite heavy by modern standards. It’s by no means unpleasant, but anyone climbing in, having just driven a modern hatchback, makes the comment “blimey, the clutch is heavy”. The other aspect of my clutch mechanism, is that the reduced mechanical advantage digitises the clutch engagement – I’ve no doubt this will soften slightly once the new clutch plate on my car beds in, and doesn’t bother me, as the clutch on my daily driver is quite digital compared to most.

I would suggest that at this point in the build, if you’re considering fitting a hydraulic clutch, you also give the braking system some thought. If you were to fit a generic pedal box, with separate front and rear brake master cylinders, and ditch the servo, you could have a much tidier, and perhaps better pedal arrangement, than if you take the cut and shut route with the Rover components. This is something I may revisit, depending on how my current arrangement fairs.

There are some pics of my cut and shut (bodge?) on my website. It’s not pretty – my early days with a welder, using nasty hobby bottles of gas.

Cheers,

John.

Ex-Biker · #6 3rd January 2008, 09:56

Forgot to add:

The R400 uses a hydraulic clutch. I know - as that is my donor car.

This includes hydraulic attachments on the R65 gearbox. Pedal box is specifically for the hydraulic & not a modded R200 set.

You do need to modify the front bulkhead & pedal box, but I think it is easier than other methods.

limpabit · #7 3rd January 2008, 10:44

Yes, the BRM has a PG1 box. Type B diff as well.

Not sure how alike the PG1 for the BRM and the older boxes are. My only concern is the clutch arm swapping over. But again I would have thought a straight swap.

Definatly hydraulic I'm afraid.

THe pedal box has totally separate pedals now. And yes was a tight squeeze with the servo. Which men't the clutch pedal could only go in one place due to the master cylinder from the clutch pedal.

R400 would need to come from a 420/turbo. Not sure if these are cable???

eaa53 · #8 3rd January 2008, 12:10

To refresh the detail, my donor is a 200 VI so is as close to an orange mouth as you get I believe without having one. I have the 1.8 VVC engine and the fobs and ecu as well as the ABS.

The engine was reassembled over Xmas and is running like a good'n.

I have scouted round the local scrap yard and have a actuator and can soon have the slave mounting bracket and clutch actuating arm, I am advised that the conversion of the PG1 from cable to oil is a matter of bolting on the correct bracket and I will assume the arm as well.

You guys have convinced me that I should convert to hydraulic and at my stage of the build it will be a lot easier.

I will need to bit the bullet and spend a cold afternoon stripping the pedal box out to review the mechanical options, I have a 400 and a 600 available to me to strip.

JohnC
(eaa53)

eaa53 · #9 3rd January 2008, 12:12

With regard to the removal of the servo, I have heard this option voiced before but could not reliably judge the brake feel and operation by doing so.

I am still toying with the idea of fitting the ABS and having a big switch to disable it during fun run times.

I know that may not be everybodies taste.

JohnC

Ex-Biker · #10 3rd January 2008, 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by limpabit

R400 would need to come from a 420/turbo. Not sure if these are cable???

The newer R400 & R45 1.6's use hydraulic clutches.

limpabit · #11 3rd January 2008, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-Biker

The newer R400 & R45 1.6's use hydraulic clutches.

Hi mate.

You are indeed correct. Also the 420 in the later models use hydraulic. Clutch arm and slave look a bit different from the 600 ones.

craig · #12 3rd January 2008, 23:07

Elises run your engine without a servo on the brakes and they feel fine, mine was ditched about a month ago, but still not got master sorted yet

EXI Turbo · #13 4th January 2008, 15:28

Hi, I started with the cable but soon realised it was not going to work when I started to route it through the car. I have gone for the larger petrol tank which means a tight(ish) bend is required.

So in the end I copied John's set up but used the standard pedals/box with a small modifictaion.

It was quite simple to do once John talked me through each step and even supplied me with a shopping list ! (thanks John)

rgds

Nick

Ric H · #14 7th January 2008, 21:29

I've sat in Marlin's demo honda car a few times and pressed the clutch. It's certainly on the heavy side! I fitted a honda type r master cylinder directly to the standard rover pedal box - with a bit of friggery. Have a search on the forum and you'll find a few pictures of people's set ups - min included.

As with Johns, my clutch action is heavy and "digital" when compared to a modern car...but not in a bad way! It makes rapid gear changes and double declutching a joy. Also, the car is so light that it's *very* hard to stall. If you let the clutch off too fast, you just pull away too fast :-)

Richard