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Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Sammio Builds and discussions

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  #1221  
Old 2nd September 2014, 17:38
Scottie22 Scottie22 is offline
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You are doing some really good stuff Paul!

I agree with you over the "It's nearly finished but everything else to do takes ages" syndrome.

It seems that way with me too, everything I do now seems to take a whole day, and I have started wondering whether I'll finish the build this year or not!!

However, like you say "keep chipping away! one day we'll run out of things to do Paul!
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  #1222  
Old 2nd September 2014, 18:41
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Scottie - Cheers, although I am pretty confident that I will NOT be finished this year.
However, I am starting to get my hopes up for being on the road "some time" in 2015.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

"That is going to look amazing!"
Said with an Eastern European accent, by a young man walking past as I worked on the car today.
It really lifted by spirits, especially as he was looking at the rear of the car, which looks a bit of a mess in my eyes.
I needed the encouragement as today's work didn't quite go to plan...

Monday:
Perpetual drizzle outside, so no work on the car.

However, I finally spoke to Jawel about the "Truck Coat" that I want to hand paint the car with.

They were really helpful and talked me through what I would need to prepare and paint the car.

Essentially there would be three steps:
- Etch primer ( As the body shell will be a mix of gel coat, fibreglass, fibreglass filler & normal filler. )
- Normal primer / under coat
- Top coat

I am looking forward to seeing the body shell at the etch primer stage, which should make all the construction scars "disappear".

I've had another thought about the final colour scheme for the car, but I want to keep that up my sleeve for now.

I also ordered some bolts and nuts for the aero screens, as they were not supplied with any.

Tuesday - Part 1:
The good news is that I finally got the chance to remove the former from the scuttle.



The bad news is the tarpaulin doesn't keep the water out when the body shell is upside down.



But the really bad news was that I tipped the water out "sideways" in stages, collecting more water as I went along:
Driver's wheel arch > driver's hump > passenger wheel arch > ground.

This seemed fine until I turned the body shell the right way up and could still hear water running?

Looking underneath there was a stream of water coming out of a rivet hole under the Passenger hump.

So either the water leaked in there under the tarpaulin, or I poured in there myself when emptying the body shell.

After tipping the body shell up and down to get the bulk of the remaining water out, I eventually stuck the hump in the sun light to dry out.

But first I started to work on the top side of the scuttle which looked like this.



After a quick tidy up with the grinder.



In addition to these strips along the joins, I added some matting "scraps" across the area as well.



When all the fibre glassing was done it looked like this.



Another small area I made a start on was where the driver's door joined the body shell and looked like this.



Thankfully, there was a lot of extra matting underneath.



So I ground it down from the outside, before adding some extra matting along the join.



Hopefully by the time I've added filler and sanded it all down it wont look too bad.

Then there was a bit of a break while I had my hearing tested and the results were not good.
( All those years of riding motorcycles without ear plugs have finally taken their toll. )

Now I have to go back in a few weeks for a further assessment in order to get a pair of hearing aids.

In the mean time I've ordered a pair of "headphone style" ear defenders to go with my foam ear plugs when using noisy toys.

End of Part 1...
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  #1223  
Old 2nd September 2014, 18:48
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Tuesday - Part 2:
The hearing test took the wind out of my sails a bit, even though I've know there was a problem for a while.

So I hoped starting on the aero screen wind breaks would help lift my spirits a bit.



But it quickly became apparent that I could mark/line this up until the scuttle was trimmed.

And I couldn't do that until my wife was back to give me a hand lifting the body shell.

Note:
It was around this time the guy stopped to say how much he liked the car and wished me well, so he really cheered me up.

I have been following how Swifty had made a "rolled" edge for his cockpit and I do have some spare conduit that I could use.



I think this will work well across the scuttle as it avoids the need to build a lip in front of the dash.

But I can't work out if I want to continue this along the cockpit sides as well.

If I do I will need to work out a way of blending the sides in with the rear cockpit lip.
( Or a way to blend in the cockpit sides to the rolled edge across the scuttle. )



When my wife returned the body shell was lifted back into place and I could work out where to make the cut.



I also marked up the front cockpit corners using the same cutting disc I used before.
( I did remember to put this to one side so it wouldn't get used! )





Eventually I had a guide line for the jig saw.



I even remembered to pull the steering column out a bit so I wouldn't cut the indicator stalk off by mistake.



And with the dust sheet removed you can get a better view of the scuttle.



I am really happy with the way it looks now, even though I still have to add a final layer of filler.

Although what I am most proud of is the fact that I have built this whole scuttle from scratch.

And when I cut the old scuttle out, I had no idea if I would be able to do this at all, a real leap of faith.

The other bit of good news is that I can now move on to start work on the wind break.

But that will be another day, cheers, Paul.

Last edited by Paul L; 3rd September 2014 at 06:13.. Reason: Typo
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  #1224  
Old 2nd September 2014, 19:44
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Its looking well Paul, before you know it you will have the rolled edge fitted.

Keep up the great work.
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  #1225  
Old 3rd September 2014, 00:17
Thurcroft flyer Thurcroft flyer is offline
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you are doing real well Paul, to say you had no experience of fibreglass before this to read your posts it now sounds like you are a pro, and full of confidence. keep up the good work, you will soon have the body tub sorted.
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  #1226  
Old 4th September 2014, 16:57
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Swifty & Thurcroft Flyer - Thanks chaps.
Whilst this build has certainly be a challenge, I do feel more confident tackling it now.
It had taken a very long time for all the parts of the jigsaw to fall in place, but I am getting there.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Slowly Taking Shape - Part 1:
The M5 bolts I ordered initially looked like a perfect fit for the aero screen brackets.



But the countersinking in the bracket doesn't match the bolt, which stopped it sitting straight.



So somewhere along the line I need to take a file to this area.



Still, the bolts are certainly good enough for the next round of mocking up.

I really took my time to ensure that I would only need to drill each hole once.

So I didn't mark up the second bracket hole until the first one had been drilled & the bolt pushed into place.



Then I fitted the screen to ensure the second bracket was in the correct position relative to the first.



Note:
The "inside" bracket is half an inch further away from the scuttle lip compared to the "outside" one for a subtle screen angle.



Obviously I repeated the exercise on the driver's side, but ran into a small problem, that was thankfully easy to fix.

I want to fit the screens so that the "Brooklands" stamp faces forward & the "Made in England" faces backwards.

But the two screens had the fitting brackets fitting in different ways, so I had to swap the "ends" over.



That way, the "flatter" section of the bracket was in the same orientation on both screens.



As always, the sloping drive doesn't help the "head on" view.



Next it was the turn of the rear view mirror to be fitted & I just had to enlarge the holes ever so slightly to take the M5 bolts.







After I had temporarily fixed all these things in place, the M5 "Penny" washers arrived.



So I will be using these when the time comes to finally fix everything into place.

Then I put my well used former back into service to help me line up the wind deflector.



I trimmed the metal former to allow the bottom edges to be curved nicely.



But in addition to curving "forward to back", I also needed the former to curve "downwards" too.



So I had to make some slits in the vertical face.



End of Part 1...
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  #1227  
Old 4th September 2014, 17:00
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Slowly Taking Shape - Part 2:
Fixing the former into position turned out to be a bit of a palaver as it was my first attempt to use a hot gun gun.



Initially I tried to run the glue along the bottom edge of the metal, but most of it was set before I covered the whole area.

So instead I had to cover the mesh on the bottom edge, one section at a time, holding it down until the glue was set.

Obviously this took ages and in the end I had to shape the driver's side slightly differently to the passenger side.
( As I forgot the screens are not fitted symmetrically as neither are the seats. )





I left that to dry while I got on with some other chores.



I just had time to make a start on the fibre glassing & put some slits in the matting to follow the curves.



After a couple of sessions the leading edge of the wind break was under construction.









Initially I was planning to leave the former in place and cover it in matting on the other side as well.

But as I was covering everything up for the night it looks like the matting hasn't stuck to the mesh very well.

So when today's work has set I might try to remove the former completely and just build a fibreglass lip.
( Which will be built higher than it currently is, before a final trim into shape. )

Either way, this final photo gives you a very rough idea of how the car in shaping up.



As I said in my last post, attempting to build the scuttle with no experience was a huge leap of faith.

But I am really pleased with how Frankenstein's Monster is turning out.

So until next time, take care, Paul.
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  #1228  
Old 4th September 2014, 17:56
oxford1360 oxford1360 is offline
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That's looking great. I bet it was rewarding to fit the screens. I have aeros as well.
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  #1229  
Old 4th September 2014, 18:44
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Agreed v.pretty.
Although after years of no one using Aeros it seems like we've all opted for them at the same time, as I've got some as well
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  #1230  
Old 5th September 2014, 16:20
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Oxford & Dave - Cheers gentlemen, there is certainly something very retro about aero screens.
Although ironically I really liked the three screen set up that the Cordite was supposed to use.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Very Slow Progress - Part 1:
After a bit of gentle persuasion the former did look like it could be pulled free of the fibreglass.



Although this turned out to the easiest section to remove and the rest of the former put up a fight before I got it all out.



Then it was another slow task to remove all traces of the glue.



Leaving me with a "clean" fibreglass lip to work with.



In order to get easier access to the cockpit side of the lip I started by removing the passenger aero screen.

At which point I remembered I wanted to test the rear view mirror screen, so it went back on again.

The problem is that the mirror is in the centre of the dash, not the centre of the two screens.
( As mentioned before, the screens line up with the seats, but the framework puts them in different positions. )

I wasted a lot of time testing various alternative screen designs.







Plus all of the above trimmed to be a little lower.

In the end I wandered down to the bottom of the garden to dig out the "one I prepared earlier".





Note: This is now centralised between the two screens, as lining it up with the mirror just doesn't look right.

But the fact the mirror isn't actually in the middle of the two screens isn't glaringly obvious.





So after finally agreeing to stick with the shape I already had, I could finally remove everything.



Then I mixed up some fibreglass filler and shoved it in/along the inside edge.





Because the glue had caused a small air gap that would be hard to fill with just matting.

There was a little bit of filler left over, so I added some to the passenger door gap to avoid wasting any.



Once the filler had initially set I could roughly sand it down and then tidy up the top of the lip with a cutting disc.



I will give the filler time to set properly before I put any matting over that side of the lip.

End of Part 1...
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  #1231  
Old 5th September 2014, 16:21
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Very Slow Progress - Part 2:
Instead I started to extend the other side of the lip, which due to the curves involved I need to do in stages.





Well, the curves and the fact I only have 4 clamps to play with.

With the first round of fibre glassing complete, I left it like this while I got on with other stuff.



After a while I came back to remove the formers, leaving the lip looking like this.



This allowed me to put the formers back on to fill in the gaps and extend the lip on the driver's side.





As before, I had to ensure there was a bit of extra pressure from behind to hold the shape of the lip.



Although it doesn't look it, there are actually 4 layers of matting in parts of the lip "extension".





That was all for today, but I hope to start building up the lip from the other side over the weekend.

And at some point I will have to re-work the outside edges of the lip to minimise the lack of symmetry on each side.

Until then, Take care, Paul.
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  #1232  
Old 5th September 2014, 22:14
Scottie22 Scottie22 is offline
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Wow Paul!

This really is going to be a creation of your very own and the only one like it!
Keep up the good work!
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  #1233  
Old 6th September 2014, 16:51
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Scottie - Thanks mate.
Despite working on the car for so long, it is weird how the final look of it is only just starting to emerge.
If I can do a half decent job on the wind deflector lip and the cockpit edges I think it will really look the part.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The End Of The Fence Work:
While waiting for the fibreglass to set last night, I was back on fence panel duty, breaking up the last of the panels.
Then my wife & I could carry the bits of fence from the bottom of the garden, through the house and onto the drive.



So this morning we could move the panels into the back of my car.







Note:
Whilst I am building a small, completely impractical, no roof, roadster, I do love my estate car/work horse.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Another Small Step Forward On The Car:
After some other domestic chores were ticked off, I could finally return to the wind deflector lip.

With the formers removed it looks like this.



Before I started to build up the lip from the "inside" face, I went back to the outsides edges of the lip.

The cold reality is that the cockpit sides are not the same distance from the centre line of the car.

But I abandoned the quest for perfect symmetry a long time ago, so this is just another compromise I've got to live with.

However, I have decided to line up the final edge of the lip with the cockpit sides, regardless of where they are.

Hopefully, the more areas of the car that vaguely line up the better.

So I cut out the end sections and re-used some mesh to provide a new profile.

Driver's Side:







Passenger Side:







Obviously the two sides are not identical by any means, but I am not going to lose any sleep about that.

I cut out two long lengths of matting to cover the inside face of the lip and the join between body & lip.
( This last piece had some slits cut in it to make it easier to bend into place. )



The reality was I should have stuck to my normal practise of using smaller sections of matting as these sagged when lifted.

Still at least I eventually got them into position and all flattened out.



I also started to rebuild the corners.





By the time I have given this lip its final shape, I expect it to "fade" down to the scuttle long before it reaches the ends you see here.

As I have just added extra fibreglass to make the whole thing easier to build and then cut back.

That was all I managed to get done on the car today, but it is good to see the wind break slowly taking shape.

Until next time, take care, Paul.

PS
My new ear defenders have arrived and they are pretty impressive.



I used them whilst using the angle grinder earlier and mowing the lawn a few minutes ago and they make a HUGE difference.
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  #1234  
Old 7th September 2014, 16:19
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Sunday Service:
I was only able to grab a few short sessions on the car today...

I started by removing the formers from the new side lip profiles.



At the stroke of midday I started the angle grinder to trim / tidy up the area.

Then I started the process of building up the lip along the new sides.





Unfortunately, the clamps for the formers prevented me from working on the very ends of the lip.

But that may not matter by the time I have trimmed this lip into shape.

While I was fibre glassing I also added some more matting to the inside of the lip.



This means that the middle section of this lip is now complete as far as fibre glassing is concerned.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

During my next short session I removed the formers from the new corners.





That allowed me to get some fibreglass filler along the inside edge as before.





I also started to apply fibreglass filler to the scuttle in front of the lip.

As I need to get the basic shape / level sorted out before I start trimming the wind break lip.
( Obviously the height of the lip needs to be relative to the final level of the scuttle surface. )





As you can see, I have used up the last of the green filler & have started on some new brown stuff.
( The green stuff was out of stock when I tried to buy some more. )

So by the time I have finished applying filler to the whole scuttle it really will be a patchwork quilt.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

My final session of the day was with the long board, as I tried to put a basic shape on the filler.





Clearly there is a lot more work required before I have anything close to a presentable finish.

But there are some encouraging signs that I will be able to blend the new scuttle into the sides of the original body shell.



Whether I can create a "sweeping arc" across the length of the scuttle is another story altogether.

But at the very least I should be able to achieve a smooth, if slightly undulating, surface.

Until next time, take care, Paul.
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  #1235  
Old 8th September 2014, 20:17
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Thinking Time:
Whilst I didn't even get a chance to peak under the covers at the car today, I have been thinking...

As I am reaching a point where some decisions now will have a knock on impact on others later.

When I first built the scuttle, I was forced to set the new bonnet lip at a slight angle.



This due to the fact the angles of the bonnet lip, and therefore the body shell were different on both sides.





Since then, Mac has solved that particular symmetry issue by "adding" the bottom section of the bonnet to the body shell.



Clearly if I copy this idea then I could re-set the bonnet lip to a straight edge that runs parallel to the scuttle edge on the cockpit side.

However, there is a slight technical problem when I compare my build to Mac's due to our different bulkheads.

This is what the inside of his body shell extension looks like.



Whereas this recent photo gives you some idea how far my body shell extends beyond the Spitfire bulkhead underneath it.



It must be possible to get around this, but it certainly will not be straight forward.

The reason I am thinking about this now is that I want to make more progress with filler on the scuttle.

Last time I deliberately kept the filler away from the passenger bonnet lip.
( And the fresh fibreglass on the new passenger corner windbreak lip. )



At this point I think I will carry on with the filler work across the whole of the scuttle and rework the lip if required at a later date.

As the other key question I have relates to how the bonnet itself is going to hinge / operate, so these two areas are related.

Obviously I am hoping either Mac or Swifty will come up with a working solution that I can then steal.

Taking of Swifty, his build is motoring along and I finally got my head around the way he built his boot lid rain channel.

Unfortunately, I've haven't worked out a way of copying & pasting an attachment yet, so I can't put his photos on this thread.

I also plan to copy Swifty's use of plastic conduit to form a round edge along the scuttle edge above the dash.

Although that brings me to the next decision which is how far do I continue that rounded edge.

The rear cockpit edge is almost complete and that is a "traditional" vertical lip.

Because I have widened the cockpit sides, I was toying with fibre glassing the panels directly to the side panels and then smoothing the body shell edge with filler.

Although I doubt this would look as neat as Mac's handy work.



So if I use a lip like Swifty then I would need to "tuck" the side panels underneath.

For now I plan to build the lip across the main section of the scuttle and leave the corners alone.

So despite putting some thought into this I still haven't committed to anything.

At least I feel like I am still making steady progress in the right direction (touch wood).

Cheers, Paul.

PS
By complete chance I spotted the red, LHD, Ribble Navigator on Ebay Here.

Last edited by Paul L; 8th September 2014 at 20:21.. Reason: Missed the PS
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  #1236  
Old 8th September 2014, 21:01
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When you mention about running the rolled cockpit edge all around you are right about having to tuck any internal panels up behind the rolled edge which means the panels will have to be slightly curved to follow the body work which adds a complication to the job, this is what i intend to do but also have the frame on show. Where as if the internal panels butt up to the cockpit edge then all is hidden so potentially less work, i suppose it all depends on the final look you require.

Keep pushing on with the build Paul.
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  #1237  
Old 9th September 2014, 17:31
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Swifty - I'm still not sure what the final look of the cockpit interior will be.
But I will definitely be covering up the frame work, as mine frame has mis-matched door openings.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Other Thoughts:
Yesterday I forgot to mention another area I have been thinking about recently, which is the side mirrors.
I have decided to fit them in two stages, the first being to bolt them directly to the body shell.
I have also been working on a "plinth" design to raise the mirrors up in the way Mister Towed has his.
This will be stage two and will depend on what, if anything, I can see out of the mirrors in their first position.
Either way, the plinth will be mounted to the body shell using the same holes that I will drill for the mirrors.

Tuesday - Session #1:
With the above thought in mind, I marked up the driver's side of the body shell for the mirror mounting holes.



Then I could drill the holes and fitted the mirror.







Obviously it will look a lot neater when the wind break lip has been trimmed into its final shape.

Note: By mounting the mirrors in this position, the Spitfire bulkhead underneath does not get in the way.



I had a slight technical hitch on the passenger side, as although there were no problems with the holes...



I have re-enforced the area so much that the fibreglass is too thick for the bolts.



Thankfully, this is nothing some longer bolts can't fix.

The next job was to add some extra fibreglass matting to the inside edges of the re-profiled corners of the wind break lip.

But this caused quite a bit of beard scratching as I tried to work out the best way of contouring the lip at the ends.

I even re-fitted the the aero screens temporarily and the lip / lip profile will really highlighted the differences between the two sides.

I will make a final call on the best way to trim this when I've finished with the filler on the scuttle.

But for now, it looks like it will be closer to the lower line that you can see here.



At least this allowed me to finished adding extra matting to the inside of the corners.







Then I put another layer of fibreglass filler across the top of the scuttle.





Then I had to leave the car for a while, but did get a chance to return to it later on...
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  #1238  
Old 9th September 2014, 17:33
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Tuesday - Session #2:
I wanted to look at the option of using a variation on the way Swifty built his cockpit edge lip.

So I gave some conduit a bit of a trim.



This would allow me to stick this directly to the scuttle edge itself like so.



Although I will need to tidying up the cut edge first.



Then the idea would be to wrap fibreglass matting over the conduit and blend it into the rest of the scuttle with filler.

But that is a job for another day and instead I started to sand down the filler on the scuttle.

Note: I will re-drill the side mirror holes from the other side when the filler work is complete.





Despite the obviously low spots, this is slowly starting to take shape.



Unfortunately, I think it will be very hard for me to avoid a certain amount of gentle undulation across the scuttle.

I am also beginning to understand why just mentioning sanding causes people like DaveCymru to start twitching.

I dread to think how much prep. is required before some primer can finally go on.

At least I can hose down the mess I am making at the end of the day.





Until next time, take care, Paul.
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  #1239  
Old 9th September 2014, 21:20
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Paul I thought about going about the rolled edge the way you are thinking but a problem i thought would happen is gravity would pull the fiberglass down from the underside before it dried so would need supporting in some way.
This is why i used the oval section plastic conduit bought from B&Q for 1.70 3mtr length (tried to find a link on the web for you but no luck, the 3mtr was cheaper than the 2mtr at my local store) i then stood it up by screwing an L shape bracket to each end then covered the full length in brown tape and then fiber glass matting so that each side and one oval surface was covered if that makes senses the other uncovered oval surface was face down on the floor, then trimmed one of the flat surfaces back to the start of the oval curve, the flat surface left was used to stick and screw to the cockpit perimeter until dry.

Any way i am sure you will come up with a great idea and i look forward to see how you tackle this.

Cheers Swifty
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Old 10th September 2014, 16:46
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Swifty - Thanks for the detailed explanation and encouragement.
Unfortunately, I have now abandoned the rolled edge idea completely (see below).
Which is a bit of a shame, as I really do like the way your cockpit edge looks.

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Chasing My Tail...
There have been many parts of this build where I have gone around in circles before getting back on track.
Sorting out the cockpit opening has certainly turned into one of those sagas.
As no matter which way I looked at it, I couldn't see how to blend a rolled edge on one side with a lip on another without it looking rubbish.
So I have decided to stick with KISS principles and build a lip all the way round.

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My wife helped me lift the body shell, turn it upside down & place in on some wood to protect the wind break lip.



I cut up some of the cardboard packing "corners" so I could cover most of width of the scuttle.





Then I used my last clamp to work on the driver's corner on the rear cockpit lip.



The first fibre glassing session got the lip construction underway.





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During my next session, I removed the former from the rear cockpit lip corner & gave the edges a quick trim.



After removing one set of formers from the scuttle lip, I set up the next set to finish the job.







After the second round of fibre glassing.



I also added some fibreglass filler to the rivets (& extra rivet holes) holding the passenger hump in place.



Hopefully this will keep the hump water tight if I need to leave it under a leaky tarpaulin again.

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My final session of the day saw the scuttle formers removed completely to leave the lip looking like this.





Note: It is now quite hard work for me to "flip" the body shell over by myself due to all the extra fibreglass I've added.

Next job was to give the corners of the wind break lip an initial trim.





Although I should have known better than to bring a tape measure along to check what I was doing.

Let's just say that if I did have a radio in the car, it would be permanently tuned into to Banjo FM.

With the final trim of the wind break lip still to come, this is what the body shell looks like now.



Hopefully I will get a chance to start adding some fibreglass filler to the scuttle area inside the lip tomorrow.

Until then, the body shell is tucked away on the drive, so I don't need to move it again.



Cheers, Paul.
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