more donor questions

morris · #1 29th January 2011, 21:32

Hi all, I've a number of varied questions about the E36 donor breakup if anyone can help.

1. Do I need the evap control system (carbon filter canister etc)? I'm assuming that I can bin it as the sportster fuel tank will have a straight vent to the atmosphere. Is this still ok for IVA or would these system need to be left as is?

2. What size socket do I need to remove the main hub bearing nut. The biggest I have is a 24mm and that was still way too small. These big sockets usually cost a lot so don't want to waste my money on the wrong one.

3. can anyone tell me how to get the second ECU/DME like box out from the compartment behind the back of the engine compartment on the passanger side? It's not covered in Haynes or Bentley and there are no fixing screws. not even sure what it is.

4. How much of the steering column do I need? I'm assuming the rack itself and the pump is scrap so was just going to unbolt it from the engine and move to one side. I was going to keep all the universal joints down as far as the rack.

thanks in advance.

peterux · #2 29th January 2011, 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by morris

Hi all, I've a number of varied questions about the E36 donor breakup if anyone can help.

1. Do I need the evap control system (carbon filter canister etc)? I'm assuming that I can bin it as the sportster fuel tank will have a straight vent to the atmosphere. Is this still ok for IVA or would these system need to be left as is?

2. What size socket do I need to remove the main hub bearing nut. The biggest I have is a 24mm and that was still way too small. These big sockets usually cost a lot so don't want to waste my money on the wrong one.

3. can anyone tell me how to get the second ECU/DME like box out from the compartment behind the back of the engine compartment on the passanger side? It's not covered in Haynes or Bentley and there are no fixing screws. not even sure what it is.

4. How much of the steering column do I need? I'm assuming the rack itself and the pump is scrap so was just going to unbolt it from the engine and move to one side. I was going to keep all the universal joints down as far as the rack.

thanks in advance.

Hi Ian, I see your having fun pulling your donor apart.

I'll answer your questions best I can but others may know better...

1. I don't think you'll need the evap system. Jason passed his IVA with just a breather tube but from experience you'll need a good quality two-way breather valve.

2. Don't know but if you look up the part on Realoem.com it sometimes has the nut size in the description. My local Halfords has been pretty good at taking back wrong size sockets but not sure if your near one?

3. No idea. Maybe its fixed from above in the engine bay. Maybe a photo would help somebody identify it? Does it have a part number visible that you can look up on Realoem?

4. On the e30 based cars, you just need the column down to and including the first UJ. I'm guessing the e36 is the same but maybe Nigel will be able to say what Mark gave him?

...peter

timbo · #3 30th January 2011, 08:00

3. Is it an automatic? If so then the second box is the automatic transmission computer.
Tim

morris · #4 30th January 2011, 09:41

thanks for the replies

1. so it may be worth hanging on to the evap system for now. it's quite simple and if I can find space it would be easy to re-include.

2. good point, didn't think of that. realOEM says it's M24 but that's the size of the thread I guess, not the head of the nut. According to this diagram
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...41&hg=33&fg=40 the collar nut is like that in the photo below but in this one http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...68&hg=33&fg=25 it's a normal hex nut.
Is it a single nut or is the silver bit a cover that needs to be de-staked? it's really not clear looking at real oem or the manuals as the pictures don't match what I'm looking at on the car.

I also suspect the N/S nut is an anti-clockwise thread

3. I suspected it was the auto box control. I've not been able to get a clear photo due to the space. may be easier if I get the fuse box out.

4. less than I thought then

peterux · #5 30th January 2011, 10:08

2. If its M24 it should be a 36mm socket you need. Get yourself an impact type socket (black) so you can whack it if you need to.
As you say you need to de-stack it first with a small punch.

I don't recall if one is anti-clock thread?

good luck!

...peter

GreatOldOne · #6 30th January 2011, 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by morris

1. Do I need the evap control system (carbon filter canister etc)? I'm assuming that I can bin it as the sportster fuel tank will have a straight vent to the atmosphere. Is this still ok for IVA or would these system need to be left as is?

As Pete replied, I didn't reuse the canister and had a straight pipe via a one way valve. No probs on the IVA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by morris

2. What size socket do I need to remove the main hub bearing nut. The biggest I have is a 24mm and that was still way too small. These big sockets usually cost a lot so don't want to waste my money on the wrong one.

I'm not sure - I used an old large whitworth socket from my father-in-laws old toolkit that happened to fit. The easiest thing to do is to measure the nut across the flats. It doesn't need to be completely accurate, but it'll give you a rough idea as to what the size is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by morris

3. can anyone tell me how to get the second ECU/DME like box out from the compartment behind the back of the engine compartment on the passanger side? It's not covered in Haynes or Bentley and there are no fixing screws. not even sure what it is.

Another option for what it might be - the ABS control unit. I know when I stripped my e30 donor, I spent hours extracting what I thought was the ECU only to find out that the identical box I'd got in my hands was the ABS unit. I'd forgotten to take into account the fact that the Bently manual is American, and their steering wheels are on the other side of the car!

Quote:

Originally Posted by morris

4. How much of the steering column do I need? I'm assuming the rack itself and the pump is scrap so was just going to unbolt it from the engine and move to one side. I was going to keep all the universal joints down as far as the rack.

I kept the whole column that went through the firewall, the shroud around the column stalks, the plastic collar & clamp that goes round the column as it goes through the firewall, and the large aluminium UJ that bolts directly onto the splines on the end of the column. Everything else I junked.

If the e36 column is the same as the e30 one (I'm guessing that it probably is), you can easily adapt the top of it to allow you to have the ignition on the correct side. the casting that holds the barrel and the mounts for the stalks can be spun 180 degrees by removing a 'tamper proof' screw at the lower back of the casting.

It's the bit that sticks up at an angle to the rear of the casting in that pic. Once you've flipped it, screw it back up. Then when you bolt it up using the tubes marlin supplies, it's on the right side:

morris · #7 30th January 2011, 11:58

Looks like BMW had sorted the column out by the E36 as the ignition barrel is already on the correct side.

I've set myself a target of getting the steering out today and de-staking those nuts. A mate down the road (who plays with VW camper vans and is used to this kind of rusty old car work) reckons even with the handbrake on I may not be able to apply enough torque to the hub so is going to give me some scaffold pole to pop over my braker bar and some box section to rig up a brace using the old wheel studs to bolt it to the hub.

unfortunately I've not started yet as I lost an ignition coil on the pug coupe yesterday so being a transverse V6, that of course requires removing large sections of the engine bay to get at them under the intake manifold. Really starting to see why people buy german and not french, so much easier to work on.

GreatOldOne · #8 30th January 2011, 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by morris

Really starting to see why people buy german and not french, so much easier to work on.

Ah, yes. That's why we got rid of our Laguna (why oh why oh why did I buy it...), and bought a Golf.

Only the French could build a UK spec car with continental headlights (yep, it failed it's first MOT as they dipped the wrong way) - and then attempt to make me pay to get it fixed. Or make the reception on the radio so terrible by completely ballsing up the antenna design. Or make the keycards so flimsy they bugger up after 18 months, requiring a new £150 replacement.

I'm rambling, aren't I? I can't help it. It's the flash backs. My French car victim support group says it should diminish in time.

morris · #9 30th January 2011, 17:29

My experiences after owning two pug 406 saloons and two 406 coupes in a row have mainly been good but I find the parts cost a fortune and usually don't last long, depreciation is enough to bring you to tears and every repair job requires some daft tool you invariably only find out you need when there are vital bits of car already all over the drive. I need to do my cam belt soon and in every garage I approach they turn a funny colour and basically say they'd rather not have the business than attempt it due to the cramped engine bay and past experience of the 5 hour job being in reality more like 2 days. Oh and then there's the electrics...very pretty to look at though.

Didn't get a huge amount done on the donor today. tackled the messy job of removing the auto box oil cooler and steering rack. Had a go at de-staking those hub nuts too with not a huge amount of success. I'll see what can be achieved once I've picked up a 36mm impact socket

morris · #10 25th February 2011, 21:47

Hi All,

me again with more (maybe stupid) donor questions

1. Are the front anti-roll bar AND drop links needed from the donor. The marlin website says yes but I've had a good look around other peoples build logs and I'm struggling to see any photos of where and how it is fitted

2. injectors and O rings. I've read a few posts on the web about how the O rings are impossible to get off without damaging the injector tips. any experience of this out there. I had planned on replacing all of them as a matter of course but wondering whether to apply 'if it aint broke...'

3. removing cam shafts. The pelican parts web site has a nice article about how to remove M50 cam shafts without breaking them
http://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/tech...ft-removal.htm
Has anyone applied this technique and can you comment on whether it's reliable

4. On board computer - Ive an 18 button example which could fetch around £20 on the 'bay. Do I need to hang on to it until first start up is proven to work or has this absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with engine (Sell sell sell).

5. Has anyone done a complete refurb on the E36 rear subframe bushes. Just want to get a rough idea of cost and effort. RealOEM gives the $ price but that's not a good guide. Mine all look pretty tired and I'd rather take the hit now and take the opportunity to strip the whole lot down and re paint than try and re-paint with a it all in one piece only to have things failing in the near future.

6. Is the N/S alternator issue an M52 thing, Cabrio thing or a problem full stop (strikes me as bit of an oversight design wise).

I'm sure there will be more questions before this thread is spent

peterux · #11 26th February 2011, 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by morris

Hi All,

me again with more (maybe stupid) donor questions

1. Are the front anti-roll bar AND drop links needed from the donor. The marlin website says yes but I've had a good look around other peoples build logs and I'm struggling to see any photos of where and how it is fitted

2. injectors and O rings. I've read a few posts on the web about how the O rings are impossible to get off without damaging the injector tips. any experience of this out there. I had planned on replacing all of them as a matter of course but wondering whether to apply 'if it aint broke...'

3. removing cam shafts. The pelican parts web site has a nice article about how to remove M50 cam shafts without breaking them
http://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/tech...ft-removal.htm
Has anyone applied this technique and can you comment on whether it's reliable

4. On board computer - Ive an 18 button example which could fetch around £20 on the 'bay. Do I need to hang on to it until first start up is proven to work or has this absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with engine (Sell sell sell).

5. Has anyone done a complete refurb on the E36 rear subframe bushes. Just want to get a rough idea of cost and effort. RealOEM gives the $ price but that's not a good guide. Mine all look pretty tired and I'd rather take the hit now and take the opportunity to strip the whole lot down and re paint than try and re-paint with a it all in one piece only to have things failing in the near future.

6. Is the N/S alternator issue an M52 thing, Cabrio thing or a problem full stop (strikes me as bit of an oversight design wise).

I'm sure there will be more questions before this thread is spent

Hi Ian,

I'll start the ball rolling with my answers, but others can chip in with their own experiences...

1. This one made me chuckle, since it was the start of my first 'debate' with Terry at Marlin. Like you, I saw it on the parts list and wanted to know why the mounts were not provided. Mark will insist that the front ARB is not required.
The bottom line is that there are no mounting points on the wishbones (and possibly chassis) so the answer is no, you do not need one.

2. I sent my injectors away for clean, refurb and test. There are a number of companies that do a postal service. I will be doing the same with my M20B28 rebuild.

3. I have read that article a couple of times but not actually tried it. It seems to make sense though.

4. I think the OBC can head off to eBay but others may know better?

5. Can't comment on an e36 subframe, but I would myself replace all the old bushes while it's all in pieces. It's difficult to check if a bush is knackered just by looking at it. GSF, Eurocarparts or my current favourite supplier, Wannapart, should give you some idea of the additional outlay.

6. I think the n/s alternator mounting is an M50/52 engine mod. You'll get an alternator mounting plate with your kit from Marlin to fit an old Lucas 100 series alternator. I think Mark would say that is the design, not an oversight as you suggest

...peter

Adding the Injector cleaning company that I used for mine.

http://www.injectorcleaning.co.uk/

timbo · #12 26th February 2011, 10:04

6. I don't know if it will work on your engine, but I was able to re-use the BMW alternator by fitting it on the other side with the help of a suitable bracket:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/3310545...7612162516794/

There was even enough room to re-use the air intake as well, although the alternator gets pretty close to the bottom radiator hose.
Tim

morris · #13 26th February 2011, 11:28

Thanks for the answers both.

Tim, did you ever manage to make any alterations to the belt arrangement with your swapped alternator so it wasn't in the diamond shape? I know there were a couple of comments at the time that there may not be enough snatch onto alt or pump with the lack of looping back. OR did it work out ok?

Peter, I'll get in contact with that injector company and report back with a price.

I managed to get the subframe out this morning. dropped the body a bit lower as I was worried about it falling then cut a section out of the bodywork so I could get a breaker directly on the stubborn bolt without any extensions (broke another adaptor this morning). with another pole over the end of the breaker it finally screamed out and about half or the thread was nothing but rust. I think it will be worth doing the bushes though if the $/£ equivenlant from RealOEM is anything to go buy it's going to cost a few hundred quid in total. may see what polyflex have on offer too.

Strange about the front ARB, pretty fundamental item on a modern suspension. Maybe it's not so relevant with a double wishbone as with a macferson strut

MartinClan · #14 26th February 2011, 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by morris

lStrange about the front ARB, pretty fundamental item on a modern suspension. Maybe it's not so relevant with a double wishbone as with a macferson strut

Like the others I queried the lack of brackets to mount the ARB although my kit has the chassis brackets so it was an option at one time.

In practice I think that the centre of gravity is so low that the ARB is probably the last handling issue to worry about.....

Robin

GreatOldOne · #15 27th February 2011, 10:48

OBC - has nothing to do with engine management, so can be so can be sold. All it seems to do is provide the display and interface to scroll through the different items.

Injector O rings - didn't have any problems with mine. It's been a while since I did them, so I can't remember how I did them... But I got them off without damaging the tips. The old ones could be cut off if they're stubborn - and the new ones can be made more malleable by putting the o-rings in hot water before you slip them on.

morris · #16 5th June 2011, 10:53

Hi all

back to my original question about the steering column. Do any E36 based builders have any photos of the arrangement of the connection between the BMW column and the Marlin supplied extension. I'm cleaning up the parts below

I think I need the top UJ plus just the left hand end of the bottom part. I'm assuming I just need to drill out the two rivets on the left hand end and that T shaped part will be what bolts to the marlin part? the other side of the doughnut including the bottom UJ will just be scrap?

Picking up module 1 on tuesday

Patrick · #17 5th June 2011, 12:10

Bottom item, remove the bit on the left (damped bit) an your left with the same part as I used off the E30:

morris · #18 5th June 2011, 16:40

oh, so the very part I thought I'd be throwing away is the bit I need to keep. good job I checked.

That was the end that was attached to the rack on the donor so I'll double check it fits ok the other way round on the bottom of the column then tidy it up.

thanks

NigelB · #19 5th June 2011, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by morris

Hi all

back to my original question about the steering column. Do any E36 based builders have any photos of the arrangement of the connection between the BMW column and the Marlin supplied extension. I'm cleaning up the parts below

:

Sorry. No photos of that bit but..

The UJ that connects the top part of the column top the extension is supplied by Marlin. The only part of the column I needed was the top section ending with the splines that goes into the Marlin supplied UJ.

Unless I've missed something.................................??!!

morris · #20 6th June 2011, 08:13

They may have changed the design a bit then as I brought it up with Mark when I was down there and he specifically said the extension mates to one half of the doughnut part. It may be that this area of your kit was based on the earlier E30 donor the same as patrick and they've now brought it in line with the parts available off and E36. it would only mean the shortening of the extension by about 20cm. I'm down there tomorrow so I think I'll take both parts and get some clarification.

thanks