250 coupe contemporary

[Jaguartvr]

You are doing it the wrong way round. Fitting is quick and easy, prepping for paint is the hard part.

[Mikewade]

You're probably right...
For me (in sunny Lincolnshire) it's a 5hr round trip to take the car to them, and it was another day to collect the old panels (plus the cost of hiring a van etc).

I haven't got a garage, so firstly it gets done quicker than if I were doing it and secondly it gets done better than I could have done it (hopefully).

I've asked Richard and co to also fit the door locks and the side windows which I thought were the tricky bits.

The only downside is that I can't say that I built it... but it will still be mine!

The prep and painting quote seemed quite expensive, so I am going to have a go at that myself.

[Barber]

Originally Posted by Mikewade

You're probably right...
For me (in sunny Lincolnshire) it's a 5hr round trip to take the car to them, and it was another day to collect the old panels (plus the cost of hiring a van etc).

I haven't got a garage, so firstly it gets done quicker than if I were doing it and secondly it gets done better than I could have done it (hopefully).

I've asked Richard and co to also fit the door locks and the side windows which I thought were the tricky bits.

The only downside is that I can't say that I built it... but it will still be mine!

The prep and painting quote seemed quite expensive, so I am going to have a go at that myself.

But there will still be plenty to choose, buy and fit as well. Jag's thread on sttip and fit shows that more of the work is in the finishing.

[Mitchelkitman]

Originally Posted by Mister Towed

Again, with all due respect Lucky, it's probably not a fair comparison to make between a Tribute panel kit that you bolt onto an old Z3 and a unitary body made to fit on a bespoke chassis to build a car that competes in the same price range as a brand new Porsche Cayman.

Much as I love kit cars I know which of those two I'd rather have if I had £40k+ burning a hole in my other trousers for a hobby car, and it comes from the manufacturer fully painted. And wearing 'Porsche' badges in case anyone wasn't sure which one I meant.

As for having to spend £5k for a top paint job, how about doing it yourself for a tenth of that price plus a fortnights spare time, enjoying the challenge immensely and achieving a finish in the 'as good as the real thing was when Moss/Fangio/Ascari drove it on the track' class rather than the 'never driven, never enjoyed but very shiny trailer queen' class.

I spent way less than five hundred quid to spray mine myself, and that included the compressor, two guns, five litres each of silver cellulose paint, high build primer, standard thinners and high-gloss thinners, all the filler, knifing putty, wet'n'dry paper, a mopping machine, G3 compound, finishing liquid, gloves, mask, disposable overalls, five hundred tea bags and a gallon of milk. Everything needed to spray a car in a domestic garage in fact. And the finish isn't too shabby if I say so myself.

I suspect Phil J spent even less and I know he achieved an even better finish on the two cars he's completed -



Go on, have a go. You never know, you might just enjoy it!

I agree with everything you are saying. It does lead me to ask why (on PH) it has been stated over £1k is the material cost for a respray, and indeed the price they quoted for the paint meant they must have used about 10L of itI didn't argue, no point. I'm all for anyone earning a living wage and all that, but just be transparent about it. If they are quoting £0.5k for materials and £2.5 labour then I might be inclined to pay, but if they say £1k materials (and I know it isn't using their calculations unless it's 3mm thick) and £2k labour I'd go elsewhere - there is a difference!

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Barber

Is there any merit in getting a coloured gelcoat if you plan to paint later? Apart from having something that looks a bit more attractive whilst build and fettling happens, does it help disguise stone chips to paintwork or is it substantially lost when prepping for painting?

ps this forum is great and a real boon for novice builders like me.

Barber - Well, as a novice builder myself, here is my take on it...

This is ericholm's 250 SWB after initially being driven around in just the gel coat and I think it looks great.



If you look closely you can see the flash lines from the moulding process, but who cares?

Now Hurnleft had a dark gel coat, so the flash lines stand out more when the sanding process had started.



But Bob was still enjoying the car, taking it to shows and eventually it ended up looking like this.



So there is certainly merit in a coloured gel coat until the prep work starts and the primer goes on.

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Compared to the 250 SWB kit, all the modification work I did "next door" defeated the idea of a light blue gel coat.

Before:



After wholesale body shell butchery:



Thankfully, a coat of primer made a big difference:



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Originally Posted by Mikewade

… I'm planning on doing a build thread at some stage ...

I'm sure I've seen a photo of your SWB 250 with the cream coloured gel coat (somewhere ).

Which sounds like a good excuse to start a build thread now.

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Originally Posted by Mitchelkitman

… I'm all for anyone earning a living wage and all that, but just be transparent about it ...

Without knowing anything about the specific quotes, it often depends how the business overheads are being recovered.

Materials could cover a mark up for premise costs, utilities, etc., although this is usually included in the labour rate.

A truly transparent quote would look something like this:
- Cost of the materials used to actually paint your car
- Cost of the labour used to actually paint your car
- Contribution to the total cost of running a car painting business, so your car could actually be painted there in the first place

But you will rarely, if ever, see a quote laid out like that.

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Anyway, this has turned into a much longer post than I was expecting, so I'd better go

Good luck, Paul.

[Mister Towed]

Originally Posted by Mikewade

I've paid extra for a (cream) coloured gel coat for the following reasons:
1. It will look good 'from the off'
2. I'm using a cream primer (although I haven't looked at it yet), so stone chips should not be so apparent
3. And this is the best bit - I shouldn't have to paint the inside of the bonnet and boot lid.

Well that's the theory anyway. I'm planning on doing a build thread at some stage - so watch out for it! (Nubodi fitting the panels, and I'm going to attempt the prep and paint).

Good point about the inside of the bonnet and boot lid MikeW, you'd expect them to be the same colour as the outside on a production car.

You've also got a good point about the stone chips not showing through.

As for the cream primer, do check with your paint supplier to see if the primer needs a coat of etch primer on the fibreglass surface first for it to bond to. I used Jawel paint and their advice was to always start with etch primer on fibreglass to ensure proper adhesion of the high-build primer and top coat.

Good luck with your build, really looking forward to seeing an example in cream (Old English White?), a nice period colour.

[hurnleft]

I had decided that my final colour when the car was painted would be dark blue. The coloured gel coat mean't I had the feel of the finished car from the start.

I then drove it for a year, doing any mechanical, styling and body mods that I decided on as it went along.

It was originally going to have an old race car look but time has given me the chance to modify my plans. In fact I was really worried about whether I'd enjoy it when it was painted as I'd liked the tatty look it had developed. Fortunately, I love it now it's painted.

For me it's been a great way to do it, as my previous few projects have needed to stick to a firm plan from the start as I couldn't drive them until they were fully finished.

I had considered a cream or beige colour (with black and orange race graphics). Here's a picture I'd kept. It's probably white but the light gives it a cream appearance and it looks superb.


However you go about it, just enjoy it.

Cheers, Bob.

[Mister Towed]

Originally Posted by Mitchelkitman

I agree with everything you are saying. It does lead me to ask why (on PH) it has been stated over £1k is the material cost for a respray, and indeed the price they quoted for the paint meant they must have used about 10L of itI didn't argue, no point. I'm all for anyone earning a living wage and all that, but just be transparent about it. If they are quoting £0.5k for materials and £2.5 labour then I might be inclined to pay, but if they say £1k materials (and I know it isn't using their calculations unless it's 3mm thick) and £2k labour I'd go elsewhere - there is a difference!

...they must go to the paint shop with the big windows - they saw them coming.

I used one of Jawel's cellulose packages from ebay - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3706136338...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Bargain, easy to use and gave a damn good finish even though I'd never even sprayed pi$$ up a wall before.

[Barber]

Paul,

Thanks for the encouragement and information. I think I will go the gelcoat route most likely, as it allows plenty of time for considered direction on any modifications.

The comments regarding transparency are interesting. Everyone has to make a living, and they have to do that according to their own economic level. I don't have a problem. I have worked in businesses with high margins, and have knowledge of others (like funerals) where the client is ripped off at every turn and it is justified as "standards" which actually means very expensive car fleets and silk top hats.

This business is much humbler, and largely closer to the client. I have to say it hits you in the face how straightforward Tribute are. Other pricing is clearly unjustifiable at worst or unclear at best, neither of which is good for business in the long term. There are enough savvy builders on here that flush out the inconsitencies. Thank goodness.

[Barber]

Originally Posted by Mister Towed

...Bargain, easy to use and gave a damn good finish even though I'd never even sprayed pi$$ up a wall before.

And if anyone believes that ....

[Barber]

Originally Posted by hurnleft

I had decided that my final colour when the car was painted would be dark blue. The coloured gel coat mean't I had the feel of the finished car from the start.

I then drove it for a year, doing any mechanical, styling and body mods that I decided on as it went along.

It was originally going to have an old race car look but time has given me the chance to modify my plans. In fact I was really worried about whether I'd enjoy it when it was painted as I'd liked the tatty look it had developed. Fortunately, I love it now it's painted.

For me it's been a great way to do it, as my previous few projects have needed to stick to a firm plan from the start as I couldn't drive them until they were fully finished.

I had considered a cream or beige colour (with black and orange race graphics). Here's a picture I'd kept. It's probably white but the light gives it a cream appearance and it looks superb.


However you go about it, just enjoy it.

Cheers, Bob.

That look great, just a bit creamier than Old English white

[Jaguartvr]

Gel coat is always going to look crap unless you spend a great deal of money on it. It needs to have enough thickness to the gel coat to allow you to sand away the flat lines and then polish it back. To do this it needs to be quite thick, I have found that the thicker gel coats are prone to chipping. The chance are that the flash lines will need to have some filler so this is going to be a different colour so there really its no point.
The colour of my car was determined by the donor, nothing worse than lifting a blue bonnet to find it red underneath. Eric was lucky, his car was black underneath even though it was a blue car. Mine is exactly the same blue but it is painted blue underneath. If you are lucky enough to have a black, dark grey or silver base I think you can get away with any colour on top.

Raw fibreglass always looks awful so I was going to gel wash the underneath of the bonnet and boot. You just add some liquid paraffin wax to the gel coat, this rises to the top forming an airtight seal allowing the gel wash to cure. If you allow it to dry in the air it remains sticky.
However the quality of the finish underneath the boot and bonnet is exceptional so I won't be bothering. The bonnet hinge and striker plate panel are already in gel coat so can be painted and I think just a coat of colour on the rest will be fine.
I am hoping to paint the underneath of the bonnet and boot myself and get the rest professionally painted with me prepping it. I will also paint the door shuts and put some colour where the front wings were. Inside the boot will be carpeted.
Base coat and lacquer on top, I didn't think anyone just used one coat anymore. If you want a good finish you must use lacquer.
2.5 litres of base coat is about £50 and if you allow another £50 for lacquer and primers. I've spent £40 on mesh sandpaper which should do this car and 5 more!

[Barber]

Originally Posted by Very Andy

With shiny bits....

This is growing on me. I am tempted to say there must be a hairdresser in me, but i know it would be misconstrued.

[Mikewade]

Thanks Mr Towed for the etch primer advice and words of encouragement, Also thanks Bob for posting the cream photo - mine won't be that creamy.
I ought to get off my arse and actually start a build thread, but apart from buying stuff, I haven't actually built much yet. I did collect the old panels the other day, so hope to photograph them and get them on eBay over the weekend... Another step in the right direction!

[Lucky@LeMans]

Originally Posted by Barber

This is growing on me. I am tempted to say there must be a hairdresser in me, but i know it would be misconstrued.

I've seen some chrome yellow vinyl wrap that colour , it would be unique !

[Mark Burton]

For my pennies worth regarding paint, the benchmark for refinishing a car year ago was 40 hours and this included for removal of handles, glass, locks and trims. This would typically be a car that had been lightly coined. Materials would vary from £450 to £600 depending on whether it was direct gloss or clear over base.

Labour then was £21 per hour, based on a shop having a quality low bake spray booth. I owned a manufacturer approved bodyshop for nearly twenty years, repairing 500 - 600 vehicles a year.

The difference between Warranty approved coatings to the budget hobbyist range are massive by way of cost and quality. What may look OK from a DIY job in a home garage is no where near what comes out of a professional shop where the finish will also carry a 3 year guarantee.

I've tried the budget primers, basecoats, clear coats and you pretty much get what you pay for. Just depends how particular or picky you want to be.

I reckon you need to be around £2k upwards for prep and finish on these cars, but it's about managing expectations regarding quality and the finish standing up to the rigours of use, or lack of as it may be.

[molleur]

#1

[molleur]

1. Use quality materials from the same manufacturer. Don't stint for mix & match paint components.

2. As Mark mentioned, you get what you pay for.

3. A DIY paint job using good materials is completely acceptable (IMO).

[Mark Burton]

There's a way of making the underside of fibreglass or Carbon Fibre have the same finish as the outer, if you're doing the prep and paint yourself.

Takes a lot of work, but well worth the effort.

[Mister Towed]

Originally Posted by Mark Burton

For my pennies worth regarding paint, the benchmark for refinishing a car year ago was 40 hours and this included for removal of handles, glass, locks and trims. This would typically be a car that had been lightly coined. Materials would vary from £450 to £600 depending on whether it was direct gloss or clear over base.

Labour then was £21 per hour, based on a shop having a quality low bake spray booth. I owned a manufacturer approved bodyshop for nearly twenty years, repairing 500 - 600 vehicles a year.

The difference between Warranty approved coatings to the budget hobbyist range are massive by way of cost and quality. What may look OK from a DIY job in a home garage is no where near what comes out of a professional shop where the finish will also carry a 3 year guarantee.

I've tried the budget primers, basecoats, clear coats and you pretty much get what you pay for. Just depends how particular or picky you want to be.

I reckon you need to be around £2k upwards for prep and finish on these cars, but it's about managing expectations regarding quality and the finish standing up to the rigours of use, or lack of as it may be.

Couldn't agree more with all of the above. Two to two and a half grand sounds pretty reasonable to me these days for a professional paint job. I was quoted £400 to prep and spray an MG Midget back in 1980, which is about two grand in today's money. If you desire a professional paint finish £2.5k's not a bad ceiling to keep to.

If you want to show your Tribute BMW Z3 Ferrari body conversion at Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance, by all means spend double that on the paint. But you still won't win any prizes because the big guys in black suits who keep touching their earpieces won't let you in.

I've never used professional paint products myself but of course they're going to be better quality than those aimed at the DIY market. If you are going to spray a car yourself though I can recommend Jawel paint as I found it to be great value for money with excellent customer support. It was easy to use, gave a surprisingly good finish and has been very durable with no paint issues at all over 3 years/14,000 miles of devil-may-care use.

Oh, and don't forget these cars are all fibreglass bolt/bond on panel kits. Depending on how well they fitted/were fitted/were modified when fitted, the panels will be under varying amounts of stress and you are very likely to get the odd crack/bubble in the surface. You really can't 'blame' the manufacturer, builder or sprayer if that happens, it's the nature of the beast, I'm afraid. If you've spent thousands on the paint you'll be pulling your hair out when it happens. If you've done it yourself with Cellulose you can just shrug and repair it in a weekend.