SVA Fail...

AndyDane · #1 26th May 2007, 20:00

Well I didn't expect a first time pass....
Nothing major though and here's the list of fail points
1. Handbrake linkage does not incorporate a means of compensation
2. When driven, safe control of vehicle is likely to be impaired by the front shocks being fitted upside down
3. Metal fuel pipes inadequately supported in engine bay
4. various wiring insecure
5. Electrical relays insecure
6. Wheel arches radius
7. front indicators position
8. quarter bumper ends not turned in
9. 100mm sphere radius issue - front indicators, front damper brackets, headlamp bases, cycle wing brackets, bumpers, siderail rear bolts, rear reflectors
10. Seat belt issue - unable to be tightened by one hand
11. seat belt anchorage bar likely to fail
12. steering column and shaft not designed to minimise upper column displacement in impact
13. speedo wrong

OK, and second/third hand solutions and explanations behind these (i.e. I've talked to John whos talked to Keith who took it for SVA!)
1. e.g. sierras have a "U" bracket that allows both sides to be pulled equally - BMWs don't have this feature - keith has an idea (?) how to sort this.
2. I need to check with Marlin...
3. add more P Clips!
4. Vindicator deliberately left loops of wire so the dash could be easily removed without disconnecting everything and Mr SVA wasn't in agreement - clip wires in place
5. Fix better!
6. add trim to wheel arches
7. the indicators are the right height but need to be less than 400mm from the edge of the vehicle - mine aren't - some form of "extension" bracket required
8. Add trim or remove bumpers!
9. Trim and bolt end caps
10. Not sure on this one - John wasn't sure what the issue really was or the solution
11. I have a bar across the top of the rear suspension turrets to hold the seat belt above shoulder height and when the SVA man tugged the belts he detected a slight flexing therefore it wasn't strong enough. Jonh thinks it's easily as strong than the marlin item but to avoid arguments we'll add a strut where each seatbelt crosses the bar to support it.
12. from Johns experience the Vindi steering column has a bend in it that forms a collapse point in the event of impact -the marlin/BMW one is straight through so doesn't seem to have that collapse-on-impact safety feature. Keith has ideas he needs to explore!
13. read true at 30, true at 40, 51 at 50 and 62 at 60 so fail - Adjust slightly!

I have some pix of the trim etc added so for so if anyone wants them let me know and I'll post. effectively nothing serious just small items to fix.

Andy

Patrick · #2 26th May 2007, 20:14

1. that's a bit odd all BMW's have left / right individually pull able cables

2. did you install with the adjusters top or bottom? We installed ours with the adjusters at the bottom - still pretty easy to get at.
11. You using seats with harness holes? I wasn't planning on having a bar other than the rear strut brace.
12. if you use something like a momo wheel the have a collapsible boss that makes up for the lack collapsible bits with the donor wheel.

At least it was not anything major, you should be able to sort most of those pretty quick! Which test centre was it at? Have you booked a retest yet?

Please do post pics we're getting close to SVA now so the more info the better

No issues with the rear lights at an angle then?

AndyDane · #3 26th May 2007, 21:06

1. from what John said it's not the adjustability but I'm not sure - I'll forward the solution when I know it to see if that helps.
2. Adjusters are at the bottom - I can't remember why I asked, but I'm sure I asked Mark and that was the way up he recommended and I can't emember why... http://www.bmwsportster.co.uk/assets...n_img_1607.jpg
11. yes I have harness holes, we weren't sure whether or not they were sufficient for SVA - marlin at donington last year said the holes were sufficient but their demo car had the bracing bar too!
12. good thought - don't know if it was more of the straight throughness (if you know what I mean) of the column though

Haven't got the pics off the phone yet but will do...

peterux · #4 26th May 2007, 21:08

Andy,

given that you have paid out hard earned cash to have your car built, I found that a shocking list of issues!

Did Vindicator expect it to pass or did they just submit it to get a shopping list of things to do?

Pictures of the solutions would be very useful for the rest of us.

my comments...
1. the sportster handbrake is a straight replica of the BMW handbrake set up, so like Patrick, I suspect the SVA man is only used to seeing ford based kits
2. Marlin frequently mount the shock absorbers upside down, so I supsect this guy was just being cautious.
7. are your indicators mounted on the bumpers? or somewhere else?
11. I gather you were not using the Marlin bar? What diameter bar/tube did they use. I have the Marlin one and can measure it for you if that helps. I think it is a hollow tube.
10. Is there a requirement to tighten the seat belt with one hand? What kind of belts do you have?
13. I assume your speedo was under-reading as over-reading is allowed

Well at least your noise, emmisions and rear lights all passed

peterux · #5 26th May 2007, 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyDane

2. Adjusters are at the bottom - I can't remember why I asked, but I'm sure I asked Mark and that was the way up he recommended and I can't emember why... http://www.bmwsportster.co.uk/assets...n_img_1607.jpg
...

Now I am really confused?

the guy wanted the adjusters at the top or the bottom??

Was it because they foul on the suspension?

AndyDane · #6 29th May 2007, 07:57

nope they don't foul - My impression is that as they are not the "right" way up compared to their design that might cause an issue.
And yes it was under reading by 2mph - not a lot but enough.

Vindicators approach is that as very few pass first time it's worth going in with a few things potentially suspect to see if they do fail rather than spend time and money fixing everything when the SVA may not notice or fail it. But the shocks was a new one for them and the things we thought might fail passed!

We talked about the fuel pipes one and what they do is put the clips on where they think they need to go but frequently the SVA centre they use say things like "should really have more here" so their man usually takes a few spares with him and they let him fit them there and then! Didn't help me though with the other issues.

I have sabelt harnesses and the lap adjustment straps sit just outside the seat so it is tricky to pull them with one hand at the moment - apparently not an issue so watch this space.

Andy

MartinClan · #7 29th May 2007, 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyDane

1. Handbrake linkage does not incorporate a means of compensationgAndy

Thats a bit worrying as we all have the same handbrake mechanism. I would like to know which bit of the SVA manual says you have to have a compensator - seems to me like the SVA guy is making it up as he goes along.

Which station did you go to?

Cheers

Robin

Patrick · #8 29th May 2007, 11:23

The BMW system adjusts in two places. The bolts on the handbrake are only for tensioning the cables. The adjustment happens through one of the wheel bolt holes directly by the shoes - there's a spring and the shoe end.

I'm really not understanding what they mean by a "means of compensation"

PJC · #9 29th May 2007, 18:16

Hi,

the compensation is easy, Ford uses a small disk at which the cable can freely run along. The pull-force on the cable is there fore allways equal to both sides. Imagine one brake pad to wear unevenly then the Ford one allways pulls the same.

If you need a picture please let me know.

Your pictures would be very helpful for me too, so thanks in advance.

I must say that there's light at the tunnel for you for SVA approval. I don't have to think about it now. To far away

Allthough I don't agree with Vindicator that there allways must be something. There allways should be nothing !!!
I must tell you it costs me a fortune if I can't get it fixed the next day at SVA when I'm that far. It's just too far for me to fail.

Peter-Jan

peterux · #10 29th May 2007, 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick

The BMW system adjusts in two places. The bolts on the handbrake are only for tensioning the cables. The adjustment happens through one of the wheel bolt holes directly by the shoes - there's a spring and the shoe end.

I'm really not understanding what they mean by a "means of compensation"

Just had a scan through the SVA manual.

It does talk about having ' an adjustament/compensation capability to compensate for friction wear '
Failure is the REAR axle brakes not having manual or automatic means of compensating for friction material wear. The BMW system incorporates an automatic adjuster inside the brake drum, which is not visible without dissmantling.

So assuming the guys at Vindicator assembled the brake system correctly, there should be nothing wrong with this design.

It will be interesting to see what they do to 'fix' this failure point?

Patrick · #11 29th May 2007, 21:18

Ah I understand now thanks both

SVA situation could be wrapped up with a piccy from a Bentley manual or realoem which seems to be down at the moment

Anyway an exploded view of the parts with an explanation should suffice - I would hope!

Patrick · #12 30th May 2007, 07:21

It's working today:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...30&hg=34&fg=30

AndyDane · #13 30th May 2007, 10:41

Cheers Guys - I'll chat with John and see if this will help. Makes perfect sense to me.

They use the shrewsbury SVA station and the guy there is apparently one of the SVA head honchos so is potentially stricter than other places...

Patrick · #14 3rd June 2007, 22:47

Rob sent me these photo's of a quick mockup he did of the handbrake problem:

http://www.msportster.co.uk/rob/DSC00020.JPG

http://www.msportster.co.uk/rob/DSC00022.JPG

He can make better pics if you want!

MartinClan · #15 4th June 2007, 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick

Rob sent me these photo's of a quick mockup he did of the handbrake problem:

He can make better pics if you want!

So is "Rob" another guy that has had a problem with the handbrake failing the SVA? Is it going to be a problem for all of us then.

Personally I can't see what is wrong with the BMW standard system. I guess
the compensator business is to ensure that both sides have the same braking effect - but what does it matter with the handbrake - DOH - I am confused....

Patrick · #16 4th June 2007, 13:41

Nope, RobDorey who doesn't post very much but read through the thread and emailed me the pics:

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...8&postcount=37