Scottie on the road

[Ollie]

Afraid i agree with jaguartvr......
I paint cars for a living.....and a good job costs money....end of.
It's almost heartbreaking when i go to a local show and see old classics or kitcars that proud folk may have spent years rebuilding, covered with ripples from one end to the other, and awfull paint. The cars look terrible.
But if that same car came to a quality bodyshop for final prep and paint it would look a million dollars....
But then of course the owner maybe wouldn't be so proud of the final product because he/she didn't do all the work themselves....
Horses for courses....you pays your money.....
PS.....i'm not knocking anybody's hobby / ability here...i am a petrolhead who loves the whole scene.....but i will say an inexperienced hobbyist will not get the quality of a good bodyshop.
Keep building....Keep posting....i love it...!!
Ollie.

[Mister Towed]

Originally Posted by Jaguartvr

Paint is the most important part of a build, doesn't matter how high a standard the build is, if the paint is crap the whole car looks crap.
Painting it at home and creating a "patina" finish is just kidding yourself, it's just a crap paint job.
Save up, take a loan or rob a bank but for god's sake get a decent paint job.

Hmm, red rag? Have you met bull?

That sounds suspiciously like propaganda spread by professional sprayers who don't want to get off the gravy-train of charging a grand for two hundred quid's worth of materials and sixty quid an hour for their expertise (plus VAT of course because they're making over £83k a year at those rates).

Yes, a pro could have sprayed my car better than I managed to with no training or experience and cheap amateur tools, just like Christiano Ronaldo is quite possibly better at taking penalties than me. It's not going to stop me kicking a ball around a park on a Sunday afternoon for a bit of fun though, and it's not going to stop me spraying my own cars either.

I expected my spray job to be terrible because that's what the 'experts' (sprayers and armchair kit car enthusiasts who know all about it but haven't actually had a go themselves because you'll never achieve a good enough finish yourself don't you know) told me would happen.

I was also told by a pro that silver is the hardest colour to spray because it shows all the faults, btw, so I set myself a pretty high bar. But I went for it anyway, and the result was far better than I expected it to be on my first go.

So, here's a brief guide to spraying your own car...

Start with a professional grade paint mixing system -



Cover face to hide terrified expression caused by dire warnings about the horrors of spraying your own car -



Spend a week filling and sanding the body, then add two coats of etch primer and two of high build using two guns that cost less then fifty quid combined -



Sand out the inevitable runs (took about twenty minutes, gosh, wish I'd paid a pro five grand to do it for me rather than wasting all that time) -



Then flat back the high-build primer *important* for best results try not to let too much belly overhang your jeans during this stage -



Follow up with five or six coats of cellulose top-coat (I just kept going until I'd got through most of my five litres of paint) -



Leave it a week then wet'n'dry, G3, finishing liquid, polish, stand back and admire your handiwork -



It'll never win any awards but it's good enough to make me happy and good enough that nobody at any car show I've taken it to, from little provincial events to Goodwood Revival has ever criticised the paint finish, and they're not just being polite because they didn't hold back about me fitting a modern stereo and speakers (now removed because the doubting Thomases were right).

And a few bonuses when self-spraying:

I'm not worried about damaging the paint, I can sort it myself for a few quid.

If there really is a blemish you can't live with, put a sticker over it!

And for those who think you need to pay at least five grand for a paint job, my whole car cost less than that....

[Ollie]

No propaganda here matey....
Just to clariy....
I live in a job scarce part of the country....i'm 47, with a lifetime's experience, ATA body and paint qualified, employed at just over minimum wage....and our shop charges £30 per hr.
So no gravy train here my friend.
Almost poverty in fact.
But i do like seeing a job well done.
Be carefull what you say.

[Jaguartvr]

I am a great believer in DIY, it can be cars, building or whatever but I know my limitations and I get professionals to spray cars and plasterers to plaster walls.
Look at all the crisp reflections in the Ferraris parked behind, show the difference in paint finish on a photo at 50 paces.
However I do understand the not having to worry if it gets damaged as I think cars are to be used.

Listed a friends Ferrari business a few months ago and he had a 60's (can't remember the model) car with all the lights and chrome removed. I remarked what a fantastic paint job it was and who had sprayed it. The reply was that it was being stripped for a bare metal respray, he had to point out the very minor defects, some micro blistering and a previous repair that you had to squint to see. The respray was costing 25K!!!! But to put it in perspective the car was worth 2 million with perfect paint and probably only 1.5 million for the "substandard" paint.
As someone just said ,you pays yer money!

[Mister Towed]

Originally Posted by Ollie

No propaganda here matey....
Just to clariy....
I live in a job scarce part of the country....i'm 47, with a lifetime's experience, ATA body and paint qualified, employed at just over minimum wage....and our shop charges £30 per hr.
So no gravy train here my friend.
Almost poverty in fact.
But i do like seeing a job well done.
Be carefull what you say.

With my apologies Ollie, you posted while I was waiting for my pedestrian rural internet connection to very slowly download my photos.

If you take a look at my reply to JagTvr above, you'll see that I fully acknowledge that a pro sprayer, like your good self, would have done it better than me.

As for being careful what I say, please be mindful that I was replying to a post that claimed that all amateur sprayed cars are crap, so my car must, therefore, also be crap.

Out of interest, how much does your shop charge to spray a small fibreglass sports car to a professional standard? £30 per hour is half what even the cheapest of my local places charge here in rural Norfolk, so perhaps if your shop is struggling you could drum up some much needed business if you can do a top job for a budget price that undercuts the many thousands charged by an awful lot of your peers in other parts of the country. Just a thought.

Again, I can only apologise to you for implying that pro paint sprayers perpetuate the myth that an amateur can't spray their own car and make the customer pay through the nose for their (undoubted) skill, but the theme on this thread has very much been one side saying you've got to spend thousands on a paint job and the other side, well, me I suppose, saying you can do it yourself for hundreds instead.

I'm also aware that La Maison Au Qatre Saisons charges a hundred and fifty quid a head for a set lunch prepared by a double Michelin starred chef. I'm sure I can rustle up something in my garage for a lot less than that, though, after all, I've already got the magimix...

[Mister Towed]

...got to agree with JagTvr about the plastering though. Tried it, couldn't do it, paid a pro, job done.

[Mister Towed]

Originally Posted by Jaguartvr

Look at all the crisp reflections in the Ferraris parked behind, show the difference in paint finish on a photo at 50 paces.

I'm afraid my eyesight is no longer good enough to be able to see the enormous difference in crispness between the reflections on mine and the Ferraris parked all about. You're obviously dead right though, all these people had to turn their backs on the Ferraris to protect their eyesight from the glare at the Italian car day last summer -



And the organisers made me park it (rather badly I'm afraid but I was overawed by all the shiny things around me) right in the main entrance next to this awful Zagato (that also didn't have great paint, btw) so visitors could get a good idea of what a car shouldn't look like before going round the back and gawping at the £200k supercars.



Oh, and check out the finish on this matt grey Ferrari -



Owner sprayed it himself, of course.

[Ollie]

Ha....apology accepted....
Right then, gotta go, beans on toast awaits....
then on with my cafe racer build..

[lancelot link]

I have spent thousands on paint in the past and also spent very little on occasions ...the last one I did with a deliberate patina , or crap paint as its otherwise known ...£60 for materials and about half a days labour including the stenciling ...



It is very definitely , horses for courses ...I like a fully restored car as much as a 'survivor' or an amateur resto or rebuild ...they all have a place ...

[Mister Towed]

Ha ha, bell end, priceless.

So, a grand for professional paint and materials, no problem. Customer pays for that.

A hundred hours to prep and spray one car, no problem, I can well believe that.

So based on a 40 hour working week you can spray just under 21 cars a year, we'll call it twenty assuming you allow yourself all the bank holidays and a week off at Christmas.

£35 per hour labour rate times two thousand hours = £70,000 a year.

Knock off a couple of grand a month for overheads leaves £46,000 a year.

Compared with:

a top of the scale band 6 staff nurse on £34,876

a top of the scale Lieutenant in the British Army on £34,180*

A top of the scale Police Constable on £37,626

Hmm, I'm in the wrong job.

*I have to admit I was quite surprised that one was so low, I was an EOD Sergeant and I would be on four grand a year more than a Lieutenant if I were still serving, just for walking up to roadside bombs and dealing with them.

Oh, and that was the only run I got in any of the coats and it was a result of moving the gun too slowly too close to the surface. Didn't happen again, I guess experience really does make a difference.

I'd also like to say that I really enjoyed the process - it was a real challenge, physically quite hard work (but not up there with manually digging out unexploded bombs), and very satisfying to see the transformation from a patchwork of fibreglass to smooth shiny thing. A sort of ugly caterpillar to beautiful butterfly (ok, moth) sort of thing. Would recommend it to anyone.

[Paul L]

"Holy Thread Hi-Jack Batman!"





Meanwhile, back in Gotham City...

Scottie’s car looks good.

[Mister Towed]

Nice. Did he spray it himself?

[Mick O'Malley]

Hi All

Wow! Thanks for all the input everyone, I wasn't expecting to open that big a can of worms!

As I have a huge time window before I have to commit to using my millionaire spray dude (he arrived in a platinum plated, diamond studded Koenigsegg CCXR Trevita), I'll delay making my decision whilst carrying on with the body prep.

Yesterday I went to the Spring Autojumble. A RAM D Type evocation in Flag Metallic Blue with a reasonably authentic looking interior was for sale there first thing for £33,995. By lunchtime it was sold.

I went and saw Chris up the top of the Red Field (AKA 'cheap seats'), he was very chipper as ever and had had a successful Friday with the other dealers.

The only project related item I bought was a cloth 'Goodwood' patch for my white overalls. £3. Result!

Got soaked in the Marlin on the way back from my mate's house in Yate. Happy Days!

Regards, Mick

[Scottie22]

Well, seeing as its my thread, I feel reasonably comfortable replying to the "can of worms" aforementioned!!

Of course a professional will usually get much better results than a
DIY with less experience, and a DIY with little cash will always feel that some professionals may rip him off.

I can only speak for myself and say that I bought good quality paint from my local paint shop, which they recommended, it really did only cost around thirty pounds, and I did all the prep work myself, and sprayed the car outside on my driveway.

I would agree with any professional painter that its not the best job in the world, there are imperfections, insects walked on the wet paint etc. But it still looks reasonable, and from 5 or 6 feet away, looks as good as a much more pricey job.

And the paint really did only cost £30!

Of course I have a big compressor and all the stuff that goes with it, I had all the grades of paper and G3 etc to do the job,
I have not costed those things out as I already had them.

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[Scottie22]

P.S The professionals surely must hate me!!!
Sorry blokes!!

[Scottie22]

P.P.S. Just to be fair, the 30 quid was just the top coat, come to think of it, so that did not include etch primer, high build or anything else!

(Before I get flamed!!)

[Scottie22]

And to add insult to injury, I painted the boot lid with a rattle-can,
because someone said a good result could not be achieved by doing it that way.

[Lucky@LeMans]

Thanks for cleaning up this thread moderators !

Scottie , your car looks superb and I followed your thread from the start . You put loads of time and effort into the prep and paint and the result speaks for itself , very well done and it does proves it can be done DIY.

[WorldClassAccident]

So in summary, the Diy person can buy the paint and do a half decent job as Scottie has shown,,,

... As long as they have the compressor, paint gun, multiple grit papers, polishing conpound etc. Also don't have business expenses, rent etc

I think we can all agree that paint comes in many levels and you pay your money and take your choice.

Pm people if you want an honest opinion on what they got.

[Scottie22]

For anyone interested, the spray gun I used to chuck my paint on,
was (is) a Devilbiss copy, but made over thirty years ago, when a "copy" was a work of art made in Great Britain, not some internet shite made in Ch*na.

And I did not get one run, but missed a bit on the inside near the back seat area! I left it like that as the aluminium showed through!
It all helps with the illusion and deception I've found.