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Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > General Build Chat

General Build Chat Area for general build chat, questions, tips, tricks and progress

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  #1  
Old 3rd November 2009, 23:14
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*Sinbad* *Sinbad* is offline
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Default Suspension

Hi,
I’ve acquired a half started project, in essence a kit car, so figured this may be a good place to ask some tech questions. What I have is a triumph herald chassis/running gear and a glass fibre body shell. I’m ok with reworking some of the chassis in order the get the body to ‘sit’ right and I’m reading up on fibreglass repairs etc…good ol’ google is a great help.

My question relates to the suspension and more over the difference in weight of the old steel body and the much lighter glass one. Short of filling the chassis with lead, I assume I will have to alter the springs/dampers etc. Any info or suggestions on how or what is needed, would be helpful.

Thx in advance, *Sinbad*
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  #2  
Old 4th November 2009, 08:10
chrislandy chrislandy is offline
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For the moment, keep the standard front coil springs and shocks but you need to take 2 or 3 leafs out of the rear spring and keep taking them out/putting them in until you get the correct ride height/camber on the wheels - don't forget to put coppergrease between the leaves to stop the squeaks.

hth
Chris
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  #3  
Old 5th November 2009, 20:30
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*Sinbad* *Sinbad* is offline
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Thanks Chris,
I guess the weight of the engine helps the front end, and I suppose as I need to reset chamber and toe in etc (after total strip down) I can adjust to compensate for differing weight. Would the springs not be to stiff though? is there a calculation or rule of thumb to find the correct ...errrr tension/weight setting? I'm guessing its possible to buy different springs.

As I'm altering the springs what about the dampers? would it be a good idea to swap these?

I want to get in clear in my mind so I understand it, so I can make it as stable as possible. Lets face it heralds weren't known for their handling to start with.

Any one reading this got a herald based kit car? what setup have you got?
any info please is useful.

Thanks again *Sinbad*
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  #4  
Old 6th November 2009, 08:47
chrislandy chrislandy is offline
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Are you talking front or rear? by taking the leafs out of the rear spring you reduce it's stiffness therefore reducing the spring rate. You might be able to find a parabolic rear spring which is slightly different to a leaf spring but from memory the hearld rear chassis uses the spring to locate the top of the rear hub so the softer the spring or more shims/lowering blocks under the spring will increase the +ve camber of the rear wheels and lower the ride height. For the rear shocks, measure the open and closed lengths and just buy some aftermarket adjustable ones (you don't need to spend much on these) eg Gaz or Protec etc

Best bet is to re-furb everything, have a talk to rimmer brothers and see what they suggest (suppliers of all things britsh they look like they do an uprated front spring and shock package) then suspension setup is usually set by feel once a baseline has been set. The hearald, like the mg's and tr's always benefit from a concrete block in the boot...

I'll try and find a book on triumph tuning i have at home and scan a few pages in
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  #5  
Old 6th November 2009, 08:52
chrislandy chrislandy is offline
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Just found this:
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  #6  
Old 6th November 2009, 13:13
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MartinClan MartinClan is offline
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When I built a Triumph based Marlin many years ago, I used Spitfire front and rear springs. The fronts were shortened (1 coil?) and the rear had one leaf removed. Use the later "swing spring" rear from the MK IV spitty if you can - it reduces the risk of the famous tuck in on hard cornering. Also don't get carried away removing leaves from the rear as the spring tends to settle a lot after a few miles.

Robin
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  #7  
Old 7th November 2009, 00:22
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Thanks very much for the help, that's helped me understand it a little better. I'm a bit off final build yet but I'm sure I'll be back with a few more questions.

Thanks again, *Sinbad*

ps. .... please feel free to add further comments.
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  #8  
Old 20th November 2009, 22:30
cswagon cswagon is offline
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Hello Sinbad
Do you know what kit it is that you have please as there were quite a few Herald based ones around in the 70's.
Mine is a JC Midge ('64 Herald 1500 engine) with a ply tub and ally front end.
Cheers
Graham.
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  #9  
Old 22nd November 2009, 20:48
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Hi Graham,

Its really a one off I guess. I was looking for a project and this seemed to fit the bill, so I've set myself the challenge of making it work.
The body is a 60's 'Falcon shells' mk3 Caribbean. Some one has tried to make it fit a herald chassis but as it wasn't designed for a herald they damaged the shell, quite a bit too. So after some major work starting with bonding a new floor in the shell including some sort of cage to help give the body some rigidity.
Narrowing the chassis, some (lots) guess work, I should then be able to start building it up.
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  #10  
Old 30th November 2009, 11:55
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eaa53 eaa53 is offline
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*Sinbad*

It’s clear from my perspective, because I know nothing about Triumph and Herald dynamics, that whatever you are using you have two or three choices.

Now perhaps you know this and just need to push or you are clueless, it does not matter which because as kit builders generally we take on the complex and difficult and somehow make it work for us sometimes (mostly in my case) without a clue as to what we are doing.

So....
You can either build it as it stands and trim and tune the handling when you get it to a stage that with wax and string you are able to take measurement or use seat of the pants judgement of what needs to change
or
You can study the dynamics using spring rates and coils sizes with final weights estimates and wheel position measurements with caster and camber not forgetting roll centres and bump steer and using calculations I have no knowledge of to work out the optimum ride height and spring ratings and settings to give you best handling.
or
You could of course ask a professional to GUESS what they recommend, someone who knows car dynamics and can suggest the ballpark setting you should be aiming for.

Now me, like Chris, would just build it and modify it later, others would pay huge sums of money for someone else to guess. The other option is young ‘Gerard87’ now he sounds like he may actually understand the need to design before building but then his qualification may rests on approaching it by design.

I also refer you to Ed China, now Ed would place a small house on a chassis and still make it look good, after all a shed and a sofa are easy in comparison, bet that was not calculated or planned on paper.

I wish you luck and hope to hear more of your build. Oh and do have fun in the process....

eaa53
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  #11  
Old 9th December 2009, 18:17
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Hi eaa53
Thanks for the words of encouragement. Most of it will be guess work, and if it looks right and feels right, then I reckon it cant be far off. But it does help some have some info to work with hence my first question. I'm still repairing the body for now and welding shorter outriggers to the chassis. I hope to be able to offer the chassis up soon to check things line up etc. I keep you posted. If I can figure out how to upload pictures, I'll post a couple.
One things for sure I am enjoying the challenge so yes it's fun.

*Sinbad*
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  #12  
Old 10th December 2009, 07:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Sinbad* View Post
If I can figure out how to upload pictures, I'll post a couple.
Hi Sinbad.

1) Setup and account on something like www.photobucket.com and click Join Now it's free.

2) Click Upload images and video button. Select the pictures on your computer you want to upload.

3) Click on the picture you want to post in madabout-kitcars.

4) On the left, there will be a section "Share this image". Click on "img code" section. Eg the box that starts with [IMG]

5) Make sure the whole of this box is highlighted in blue.

6) Either hold down the CTRL button on your keyboard and keep in pressed, then press C on the keyboard at the same time. Or right click the mouse in the box and select copy.

7) Go to madabout web site. Where you post your replies etc, either right click mouse and select paste or press and hold the CTRL key then press V.

8) This should paste a line in your text something like [ IMG ]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v693/your user name/your pictures name.jpg[ /IMG ]"

Sounds more complicated than it is. Once you have done it once it's fairly easy.
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