Dutton Dementia

[Mick O'Malley]

Yesterday I pootled up the Fosseway for my long-delayed collection of the Avenger prop-shaft I need for mating to my gearbox. I have to say that the vendor, with whom I've been in internet correspondence was, as miserable gits go, right up there, even face to face. Still I got the necessary for a reasonable 30 quid, result! It was a 150 mile round trip so, on return, I left unloading and examination for today.



The internal splines were as rusty as the rest of the prop. and needed a good hour of wire brushing (I had to saw the longitudinal corners off one of those pound shop brushes to get it slim enough) and scraping with a skinny flat bladed screwdriver for them to look half way decent. I next sat the Ford prop. alongside and had a good head scratch.



The U/J spiders and their yokes look to be of similar dimensions so it may be possible to hybridise the original with the gearbox end of the 'new' one. Before I embark on attempting this, I'll have to carefully measure where everything sits (again - I know what I'm like!) to ensure that I wouldn't end up with the gear stick either under the scuttle or my left elbow.

Whilst searching my shed for the old prop., I found the engine mounting rubbers (which were attached to the cross member when I collected all the gubbins). I'd forgotten I had them and had been searching the internet without success for a pair to bolt to my recently acquired 'Holy Grail' brackets. I now have all the necessary for more engine dangling to accurately fabricate the chassis frame mountings.

I'm beginning to feel that I'm getting somewhere!

Regards, Mick

[Lucky@LeMans]

Well done Mick for sorting all the bits ! At least the internet is there to help find all the parts, it still takes a lot of work / miles and time to bring it all together ! To think that in the 70's, 80's and 90's you could go down your local scrappy and get all the bits in an hour or two for a few quid ! There were plenty of miserable old gits back then too, usually running the scrap yards !

[Mick O'Malley]

Yesterday I decided to offer up the Talbot Sunbeam cross member again and have another head scratch: after lots more measuring, including some ground clearance guesswork, I concluded that it could be used if positioned under the Dutton's frame. I clamped it roughly in position, tapped it back and forth until it sat correctly, and checked that there was sufficient edge to the mating surfaces for secure welding. I took a rubbish picture in the gloom and called it a day. I will of course get all the relevant bits back to bare metal before taking it to my MIGmeister.



Today I re-checked everything and had a quick panic regarding clearance for the radiator, but my fears were allayed when I remembered that I'd be fitting an electric fan - phew!. I jacked up the front end to a convenient height, secured it to a beam with a ratchet strap, and drilled through the frame and cross member (after yet more measuring). I cut some threaded 6mm bar and bolted through, two nuts locked together and a penny washer beneath, and another above topped off with a split washer and nut. Job done .



I can now do some more dangling for gearbox mounting positioning.

Regards, Mick

[Mick O'Malley]

After yesterday's temporary bolting in of the cross member, I today decided to offer up the engine. It seemed that everything was in the wrong place to achieve this . First job was to turn the 'car' around. Whilst it was down the garden, half way through the manouvre, I hoicked out the crane which it had been blocking in. I then had to work the crane around to the other side of the engine stand, which was only just possible with one crane leg up. Taking the engine's weight with the crane I freed it from the stand, which I could then stow away. With the front end of the frame now much more accessible, dangling could commence . I lowered the engine fully down onto the cross member and released it from the crane, having roughly levelled it with my trolley jack under the rear sump.



Measuring the distance from the front edge of the integral bell housing to the gearbox mounting lugs, I could accurately work out if the existing frame cross member and gearbox mounts would be compatible. The jury was out on that one so, as the sky blackened threateningly, I packed up and called it a day, well pleased with my progress.

Regards, Mick

[Lucky@LeMans]

At first glance it looks like the bulkhead structure is to the left and the engine is in back to front ! Then looking again you can see the girders rising up towards the right of the picture which hold the rear axle in place. Sometimes wonder how Mr Dutton came up with this chassis design, quite unconventional even back then !

[froggyman]

Hi Mick, hope all well with you as no updates for a while. Best wishes for 2023.

[Mick O'Malley]

Hi Froggyman

All's good here thank you, apart from the demon bug I've had for a fortnight, which somewhat put the kibosh on Xmas. The only tiny progress I've made is buying a pair of long front wings on Ebay for 50 quid. I'm supposed to be motoring down to Winchester today to collect them but not sure if I'm up to it. My last post seems a lifetime ago, although it's not even six weeks. Roll on spring!

New Year's Best Wishes to you too.

Mick

[Lucky@LeMans]

Happy New Year Mick .
Keep posting your build, its the only currently active one on the whole forum !

I'd post more on my project but little to report at the moment and sometimes I think I'm talking to myself when I do !

[Mick O'Malley]

Yesterday, spurred on by Froggyman's and Lucky's good wishes and encouragement, not to mention the crisp sunny weather, I wandered down to the cave and decided to start working out gearbox mountings. First job was to get the trolley jack out of the way, so I lay a piece of 4x4 across the top rails and took the weight of the back of the engine with a ratchet strap.



I was then able to crane the gearbox roughly into position. It was immediately apparent that, unless the engine/box were to be at a crazy nose-down attitude, the interfering frame cross member would need to be modified.





A new length of inch and a half box complete with the two forward facing stubs will need to be lap welded beneath the existing cross member (suitably cut to clear the gearbox tail). With so much welding work on the frame being needed, I think I'll ask my ever accommodating friend if one of his boys would like to come in on a Saturday for folding money, with a suitable donation for consumables. This is what we did for the substantial frame mods needed on the Rover V8 engined Phaeton I built back in '92.

Having reached this impasse I decided to offer up the prop. just to see how it looked for cutting and shutting. Imagine my dismay when the female end's internal spline proved to be way too small for the gearbox's male output spline. Aaaaaargh!!! The above mentioned miserable git had said "There's not much I don't know about these Rootes propshafts". Obviously mistaken!

So, it looks like going back to the relevant FB groups to find someone who really knows what they're talking about, so that a correct prop may be sourced. 30 quid and 150 miles of petrol down the pan. Disappointed? Just a tad!

Regards, Mick

[peterux]

Hi Mick,
sorry to hear about your propshaft woes. I got my propshaft from Dunning and Fairbank (https://www.dandfltd.co.uk/) and they were extremely knowledgeable and very helpful. Worth dropping them an email?
....peter

[Mick O'Malley]

Thanks for that Peter, I may well avail myself .

On Monday, at long last, I motored down to Winchester and collected my Westfield SE wings. My Dutton chum of 40+ years accompanied me, reprising the many trips we made rescuing abandoned Phaetons and B Types back in the 80s. Happy Days!



And yesterday the nice man delivered my metre of 40x40mm tube, destined for cross member modifications. The sun has today crept high enough to clear the houses opposite and illuminate the cave from just after 0900 - spring is on its way...



As I've been typing this I've flicked back and forth to Ebay where I've just this second won a pair of A35 front sidelights for a tenner. They're 'spares or repair' but as I'll be making my own LED bulbs, as per usual, that matters not.

Regards, Mick