Running reports

[Patrick]

It will bolt on to an M20 gear box will be at a different angle, should be possible to raise the mount on one side to compensate

[MartinClan]

Originally Posted by Mike

By simply changing the inlet manifold from the M50 2.5 on to the M52 2.8 will take the BHP up to 220BHP. These are advertised on ebay and I have seen them make £100 each. I

One on Ebay at the moment

140284684840

Robin

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by MartinClan

One on Ebay at the moment

140284684840

Robin

Bit more on that here: http://328compact.co.uk/index.php?section=25

With a remap it will be closer to 240bhp

[peterux]

Originally Posted by Patrick

Bit more on that here: http://328compact.co.uk/index.php?section=25

With a remap it will be closer to 240bhp

Useful info, thanks.

Not sure about the gearbox yet. My e30 box was a very low milage 'box from crashed e30.
If I can pick up a 328i gearbox and I could sell the M20 box?

Lots of other things to ponder....

Do I need the cats and lamda sensors? If not, will it pass an MOT?
Do I need a new radiator?
Will my electric fan still fit?
Will I need an expansion tank?
Purge control valve??
Will I need to move/different alternator?
Will I need to put concrete blocks in the back to stop the wheels spinning!

And probably a whole bunch of other things that I haven't thought of yet....

Peter

[Mike]

Originally Posted by peterux

Useful info, thanks.

Not sure about the gearbox yet. My e30 box was a very low milage 'box from crashed e30.
If I can pick up a 328i gearbox and I could sell the M20 box?

Lots of other things to ponder....

Do I need the cats and lamda sensors? If not, will it pass an MOT?
Do I need a new radiator?
Will my electric fan still fit?
Will I need an expansion tank?
Purge control valve??
Will I need to move/different alternator?
Will I need to put concrete blocks in the back to stop the wheels spinning!

And probably a whole bunch of other things that I haven't thought of yet....

Peter

Peter
As you have already registered your car, I would guess you do not have to fit the Cats: would this only be necessary if you declare the revised age of the engine? - however, the lambda(spelling?) sensor is linked in to the ECU, so could cause problems if you don't
Your electric fan will still fit - you have much more room in the Sportster than the Cabrio and mine is mounted in a similar way to yours
What radiator/expansion tank do you have now?
The alternator has to be moved to the opposite side in the Cabrio - Marlin make a bracket, but don't buty it !- you learn by experience - It does not work with the original BMW alternator, and is designed for a smaller Lucas item. I have altered my bracket to allow the original to locate on the oposite side - Despite what Marlin tell you there is plenty of room
You may have to either cut the manifold and shorten it, or make a new intake elbow. Marlin recommend cutting the inlet manifold - drastic stuff - as in their Demo car, and Chris Cunliffe has done this too. Andrew Curtis preferred to make a new inlet elbow for his Sportster - I have photos - I can post it on my Flickr site if you are interested?
I think you'll need alot more than the odd concrete block to stop the wheels spinning!! - What a hairy motor you are going to have!!
Do keep us informed on progress
Regards
Mike

[peterux]

Originally Posted by Mike

Peter
As you have already registered your car, I would guess you do not have to fit the Cats: would this only be necessary if you declare the revised age of the engine? - however, the lambda(spelling?) sensor is linked in to the ECU, so could cause problems if you don't
Your electric fan will still fit - you have much more room in the Sportster than the Cabrio and mine is mounted in a similar way to yours
What radiator/expansion tank do you have now?
The alternator has to be moved to the opposite side in the Cabrio - Marlin make a bracket, but don't buty it !- you learn by experience - It does not work with the original BMW alternator, and is designed for a smaller Lucas item. I have altered my bracket to allow the original to locate on the oposite side - Despite what Marlin tell you there is plenty of room
You may have to either cut the manifold and shorten it, or make a new intake elbow. Marlin recommend cutting the inlet manifold - drastic stuff - as in their Demo car, and Chris Cunliffe has done this too. Andrew Curtis preferred to make a new inlet elbow for his Sportster - I have photos - I can post it on my Flickr site if you are interested?
I think you'll need alot more than the odd concrete block to stop the wheels spinning!! - What a hairy motor you are going to have!!
Do keep us informed on progress
Regards
Mike

Thanks for the tips, Mike. I've got pictures of the Lucas alternator mounted on the other side but like you would like to re-use the BMW one if I can. I don't fancy cutting the manifold. I think i'll get the engine in and then figure out what to do. Any more pictures would be useful, thanks.
I'm also going to try to re-use the cats if they will fit under the car as i'm not sure it'll pass MOT tests without.
I think I also have something called a Secondary Air Injection but I think that is just to reduce emmisons after start up.
Did Marlin suppy your engine mounts or make your own? I wouldn't mind a picture of each mount next time your in your garage with your camera.

cheers

Peter

[Patrick]

As I understand MOT rules if you take a new car and put an old engine inside it has to pass old MOT standards - but you need to prove engine age.

You take an old car and put a new engine in and it has to pass the MOT standards for the original chassis.

Now here's the the one I'm not sure on, the Sportsters first registration date in my case is 2007. So is the chassis classed as old or new? It has an age related plate which would lead me to assume that the engine passed F plate regs, but then the date of first registration is only a year ago.

Meh I hate "grey" area's when it comes to this stuff.

[peterux]

Originally Posted by Patrick

As I understand MOT rules if you take a new car and put an old engine inside it has to pass old MOT standards - but you need to prove engine age.

You take an old car and put a new engine in and it has to pass the MOT standards for the original chassis.

Now here's the the one I'm not sure on, the Sportsters first registration date in my case is 2007. So is the chassis classed as old or new? It has an age related plate which would lead me to assume that the engine passed F plate regs, but then the date of first registration is only a year ago.

Meh I hate "grey" area's when it comes to this stuff.

Yeah and I bet you get three different answers from the DVLA/MOT station!!

[Patrick]

I asked here hoping to get answers from a wider audience, but they don't seem to know either:

http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?t=275058

[Mike]

Originally Posted by peterux

Thanks for the tips, Mike. I've got pictures of the Lucas alternator mounted on the other side but like you would like to re-use the BMW one if I can. I don't fancy cutting the manifold. I think i'll get the engine in and then figure out what to do. Any more pictures would be useful, thanks.
I'm also going to try to re-use the cats if they will fit under the car as i'm not sure it'll pass MOT tests without.
I think I also have something called a Secondary Air Injection but I think that is just to reduce emmisons after start up.
Did Marlin suppy your engine mounts or make your own? I wouldn't mind a picture of each mount next time your in your garage with your camera.

cheers

Peter

Peter
I have posted pics of Andrew Curtis's M50 Inlet mods in his Sportster on my flickr site. Although Andrew is happy with it, the racing fraternity believe the elbow restricts breathing at the top end - which defeats the object of using a bigger engine if you cant extract the full power from it?
Looking at richard & Patrick's Compact M52 conversion, I do not think shortening its Inlet manifold is an option as it changes shape along its inlet tubes length. Shortening the M50 manifold is much easier, and will give you the additional benefit of an extra 20BHP! - see my Flickr pics.
I will take some engine mount and alternator pics over the weekend for my M50, which I guess is very similar to the M52? - Perhaps Patrick knows better, but I have the impression the M52 is mechanically similar (bottom end & block) to the M50, except it has a twin Vanos head? - but could be wrong.
Marlin supplied my engine mounts - but like most things they make they could be improved - to use the original BMW rubber mounts - not the cheap Landrover units they supply. The BM ones are offset top and bottom, so you can rotate them to move the positioning of the engine in the bay-- very useful in a Cabrio as the engine bay space is much more limited than your Sportster.
regards
Mike

[Patrick]

The M20/M50/M52/M54 bottom ends are all very similar, I've got an M52 crank in my M20 block for example, its the heads / vanos that make the most difference between the engines.

The M50 manifold swap is not quite bolt on IIRC Richard bought a kit from someone on a BMW forum with various machined parts to make the two work together. We've not got any photo as we were asked not post what they look like publicly. I'll ask Richard to stop by as he did the swap out work on his engine.

[peterux]

Originally Posted by Mike

Peter
I have posted pics of Andrew Curtis's M50 Inlet mods in his Sportster on my flickr site. Although Andrew is happy with it, the racing fraternity believe the elbow restricts breathing at the top end - which defeats the object of using a bigger engine if you cant extract the full power from it?
Looking at richard & Patrick's Compact M52 conversion, I do not think shortening its Inlet manifold is an option as it changes shape along its inlet tubes length. Shortening the M50 manifold is much easier, and will give you the additional benefit of an extra 20BHP! - see my Flickr pics.
.....................

Marlin supplied my engine mounts - but like most things they make they could be improved - to use the original BMW rubber mounts - not the cheap Landrover units they supply. The BM ones are offset top and bottom, so you can rotate them to move the positioning of the engine in the bay-- very useful in a Cabrio as the engine bay space is much more limited than your Sportster.
regards
Mike

Thanks Mike, and for the photo's. It sure is a close fit for that manifold and throttle body. Perhaps I should cut a hole and put the air filter on the outside of the car.
I wonder if these would fit?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=170220243691
Now they would look cool!!

There are two M50 manifolds on ebay i'm watching.

I have ordered some engine mounts from Terry but god only knows how long they will take. Thanks for the tip about the engine mounts.

thanks

Peter

[peterux]

Originally Posted by Patrick

The M50 manifold swap is not quite bolt on IIRC .............
We've not got any photo as we were asked not post what they look like publicly. .......

Perhaps you could share them privately

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by peterux

Perhaps you could share them privately

I have to ask Richard if he took any photos

[Mike]

Originally Posted by peterux

Perhaps you could share them privately

Peter

try this site
http://forum.performancebmwmag.com/v...hp?t=5058:icon


Mike

[peterux]

Thanks, Mike, that is interesting. Ive seen that very same manifold sold on ebay complete with the mods (in fact the exact same picture).

Peter

[jeremy]

Hi Peter, I have the m50 engine and have basically sorted my air flow without shortening the manifold, and without reducing the air flow to the throttle body.Just finishing mounting the afm and filter.Would some pictures be useful?

[Mike]

Originally Posted by jeremy

Hi Peter, I have the m50 engine and have basically sorted my air flow without shortening the manifold, and without reducing the air flow to the throttle body.Just finishing mounting the afm and filter.Would some pictures be useful?

Jeremy

I'd appreciate some photos
Regards
Mike

[Mike]

jeremy
have you completed the cooling piework?
Have you fitted a valve between the head and the in-car heater?
How have you dealt with the expansion tank pipework?
Any info would be appreciated
Mike

[peterux]

Originally Posted by Patrick

The M50 manifold swap is not quite bolt on IIRC Richard bought a kit from someone on a BMW forum with various machined parts to make the two work together. We've not got any photo as we were asked not post what they look like publicly. I'll ask Richard to stop by as he did the swap out work on his engine.

I found these sites today...........

http://www.m50manifold.com/
and this....

http://www.europeancarweb.com/tech/0...s52/index.html

Interesting exert........

Because of the car's choked down intake manifold there is a serious drop in power after 6500 rpm, which is where any stage-one-equipped M3 should be shifted from second gear onwards. At 7000 rpm this car is only making 189 whp.So what would happen if we were to successfully adapt an OBD-I manifold? What we like to call EHP's stage-two power upgrade does simply that-it exchanges the OBD-II intake manifold for an OBD-I manifold that can be found on any stock '92-95 325i or '95 M3. EHP made this possible with its CNC OBD-I adapter bracket, which adapts the OBD-II idle air control motor and vacuum lines. The install isn't as simple as it may seem, but luckily EHP's easy-to-read CD-ROM instructions were easy to follow, keeping this portion of the install to three hours.

When finished, this upgrade proved well worth it. Without changing the stage-one software, the power soared to 233 whp-the most power I've ever seen out of the stock HFM. Because EHP hasn't developed specific software for running the intake manifold with its stage-one intake kit, it does not recommend this particular setup-despite the fact that several of its customers reportedly drive their M3s this way. I think EHP just wants to be able to fine-tune a lone intake manifold upgrade first. But we found the idle was still good and the air/fuel ratios were a leaner 12.5-13.2 from 5000 rpm-still fine for a normally-aspirated car.The gains don't come without a small price paid in low-end performance, however. A power loss started at 2500 rpm and continued to 4600 rpm, with a peak loss of 17.4 hp and 23.3 lb-ft at 3930 rpm. But the window in which it happens is fairly small and will only be noticed while driving around town or powering out of turns in too high a gear (in that case, shame on you). In a drag race the losses would be insignificant, as all you'd have to do is launch at any engine speed greater than 4000 rpm. It's evident BMW chose the OBD-II manifold to make the car feel quicker at low speeds and at a stab of the throttle. But where the OBD-II intake manifold really drops off in torque-at 5000 rpm-is where the OBD-I manifold shines, maintaining it much better through redline. And it's this range that makes the car significantly faster in a straight line for the simple fact that the engine is now getting much more work done over time. In other words, horsepower-32 whp more at 7000 rpm to be exact.