Another Cordite Is Born ...

[swifty]

Very thorough and interesting read Paul, hopefully these kits fall into section 2 which looks to be simpler than section 3, i suppose it's down to how the DVLA guy looks at it but will wait and see what happens.

[micky1mo]

My experience with the DVLA is KEEP IT SIMPLE and IF THEY DO'NT ASK DO'NT TELL .

Fill in the paper work complete with "informative" photos of the build ( Paul L you might need some help on that one )

I like to have front right quarter and left rear quarter, showing the registration before "work" starts. It is also nice and helpfull to include a photo of the "original" chassis plate, and engine number.
IMHO, I think photo evidence will soon become part of the DVLA form and have to be submitted as part of the form as it is with HGV conversions.

More photos taken from the same angles partly striped, then full striped, then refurbished chassis, then rolling chassis, then cage frame bolted on, then finally body on with registration number in place.
This will show the major components in place which are what DVLA and VOSA are looking for. VOSA score each major component to make a total of 14 points. To retain the original registration the score must be over 8 points and must include the original "unmolested" chassis ie; the chassis engine and steering.
Chassis 5 points.
Axles 2 points.
Suspension 2 points.
Steering 2 points.
Transmitsion 2 points.
Engine 1 point.
Total 14 point
You will note the bodywork scores nothing according to VOSA
Make a point of showing and high-lighting the original components as this is what DVLA and VOSA are looking for. The fact that we use every original "unmolested" components helps big time!!


Also include a brief description of what's happening, remembering the person reading the form and looking at the photos doesn't know what a spanner is and never looks under a bonnet.

If you have no invoices say why you have none ie; recycled every thing from the donor.
NEVER mention any thing is SECOND HAND
Paul L , the bulkhead you used was the old one from the original donor wasn't it

DVLA personal will not take any chances so try and take away the guess work.

Keep it simple.

[Paul L]

Dave - Good luck with your application, it will be nice to see how you get on.

Swifty - My reply letter to the DVLA asks for confirmation that Section 2 applies.
From my understanding, we are definitely not Sections 3, 4, 6 or 7.
However, I think it is "Section 5. Kit Conversions" that causes the confusion.
I am NOT adding "a kit of new parts" to an existing vehicle.

My replacement bodyshell is actually made up from the following:
- A selection of new parts from the Cordite kit
- Parts from the original vehicle (petrol tank, filler cap, etc.)
- Old parts from a Spitfire tub (bulkhead & wheel arches)
- New parts from other suppliers (aero screens, rear lighting, etc. )
- Home made parts (brackets, fixings, etc. )
- Modifications to new kit parts (replacement scuttle, sealed doors, widened rear, etc. )

I am sure parts like your home made hand brake panel mean you are not adding a "kit" of parts either.
Similarly, Scottie had not used a kit of parts, but parts from a kit, plus other items.
To me, a "kit of parts" is what you get with a Caterham kit, not what we are building.

Mike - Thanks for the detailed reply, as that ties in with my understanding.
I've always assumed that at least one person in the DVLA probably reads car forums like this one.
Thankfully, the "old" body tub that I used has an Ebay sales record & its own VIN plate.
Actually, I have tried to keep good records of everything I have bought for this project.

I've included these "sample" photos with my DLVA reply which seem to follow your suggested approach.









Although I only have "work in progress" photos for the replacement bodyshell at the moment.





So I will be very glad when I have finally bonded everything together.

Cheers, Paul.

[Paul L]

Well the forecast said it would be dry, so I took a chance to play outside...

Bloody Weather - Part 1:
This is Tribute's new 250 SWB under construction and they do make their "cutting & shutting" work look very easy, .





However, I have a long way to go before I am even half as good as Chris & Dan.

So I guess I need a bit more practice...





Before I started cutting, I needed to ensure the body shell was sitting on straight.

Without a layer of bonding paste front & rear, the shell still wants to "wobble", so I weighed one corner down.



At the rear, the tail pipe exits now act as my point of reference for aligning the body shell.



With the body shell "set", the rear passenger arch still covers the wheel nicely.





But the driver's side doesn't.





This is all related to the issues with the original Cordite buck, which was covered in more detail previously.

Mac did a neat job when he fixed this corner, but I didn't want to touch the area where my boot lid will eventually go.

So out came the jigsaw and I cut through a section of the rear arch like so.





I had just put the first tech screw in place when I felt a drop of rain.

Given the heavy downpours of late, I decided to get a cover over the rest of the car before continuing.



This was a good idea, as, sure enough, before I had finished "stitching" the two sections back together the heavens opened.

This was as far as I had got...





By the time I'd take the photos above, covered up this corner and packed my tools & bits away, I was soaked.



That is how I left the car and until the sun came back out.

End of Part 1...

[Paul L]

Bloody Weather - Part 2:
Unfortunately, I only managed to add a few more brackets before the rain came hammering down again.

I must confess to a major sense of humour failure after getting soaked a second time.

But it was third time lucky, by the time I managed to finish the "stitches".



Due to the curves involved, I had to use a lot of smaller brackets this time.

Here is the "after" view to compare with earlier.







And this is the view along the rear of the car, before & after.





Overall, I am pretty happy with how this has turned out.
- Is the new arch perfect? - No.
- Are both arches now completely symmetrical? - No.
- Is the new arch better than it was before? - Yes.

So that will do for now and that should be the last of the major surgery (touch wood).

I just had time to start cutting some templates for the cockpit side panels.







Due to the angles of the framework, I plan to use three panels, rather than one.

With the panel closest to the dash having a "hollow" built in to access the mounting brackets for the side mirrors.

But I didn't get a chance to start mocking this up as the sky looked like this.



So I decided to cut my losses and call it a day, rather than risk a third soaking.

Anyway, it was good to be back working on the car, regardless of how much I actually got done.

So until next time, take care, Paul.

[oxford1360]

Good going, Paul.

I don't know if the back of the Cordite is identical to the Spyder but it does look like it is as I have the same problem of the O/S rear arch drifting inwards and not covering the wheel to the same extent as the N/S.

With the help of my roll hoop frame, I was able to draw a reasonably accurate (ha ha) line down the centre of the car and all the way to the very back. When I measured from the centre line to two "equivalent" points (visually) on each of the rear wings, I was surprised to see that they were within 10mm.

What am I trying to say? Well, it looks like the Cordite solution pursued by you and Mac adds ~50mm to the width of the rear on the O/S. If I were to take this approach it would make my rear-end look odd (ha ha again).

How does the surgery affect the view from the back? Does this new cut just balance out the added width on the N/S? It might be that you now have a well-balanced "wide boy" Cordite.

My feeling is that the built-in asymmetry lies in the vertical plane of the rear wing rather than the horizontal, and that it is the vertical face behind the centre line of the wheel that needs filling-out a little.

If the above makes any sense to anyone else I shall be amazed. It's just that it looks like an awful lot of width to add to the rear body to cover a bit more of the rear of the wheel (the original view from the top wasn't too bad).

This is in no way a criticism, just the ramblings of a mad man who will have to address a similar problem very soon.

Update: I've just looked at Mac's pics and it would appear that he has taken more of a twist approach to get the wheel covered, and has not added as much width. As I said, by adding width to both sides, you have probably achieved a balance. Hey, Oxford, shut it!

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by oxford1360

...Does this new cut just balance out the added width on the N/S? It might be that you now have a well-balanced "wide boy" Cordite...

Oxford - Funny you should say that, because I thought exactly the same thing earlier today.

I can't get a decent photo of the rear of the car at the moment, as there is a hedge in the way.

But I will try to remember to take one when I next have the body shell off the frame work.

The problem I have is that Mac is making minor tweaks to the Cordite/Navigator MkII body shell.

So I still have to fix some of the original Cordite MkI problems that his Navigator body shell no longer has.

You might remember just how far Mac moved the rear passenger side on the original Cordite!



I know I keep coming back to the following photos, but they do help justify the butchery I'm doing.

The original driver and passenger sides of the Cordite buck next to each other.



The rear end of all Spyders seem to have a nice sweep on both sides, as per Mr T.



Whereas, I had a nice sweep on the driver's side and a much "flatter" profile on the passenger side.

But the rear passenger side also had the problem of the wheel arch not covering the tyre.

This was AndyP57's original Cordite demonstrator.



So I fixed that problem by cutting the rear of the car in half and pulling it out a bit.

But that still left me with two different rear "sweep" profiles.
( Well, until today that is. )

Widening part of the body shell arch, rather than just moving the whole arch has also helped.

As the width of the driver's side rear arch was less than the passenger side one.

So I believe that I have made an improvement, even if I haven't got a perfect match on each side.

Cheers, Paul.

PS
Feel free to "ramble" any time and I look forward to seeing your body shell work.

[oxford1360]

Ah, I'd forgotten that Mac was on a MkII. And, yes, mine is the same as T's, and has a rather nice sweep to it.

Foolishly I had assumed that a Spyder and a Cordite Mk I had the same back end. As if!

[Paul L]

Oxford - No, I was the foolish one for believing the Cordite was an improvement on the Spyder and an easier build.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

A start...
Only had a small chance to work on the day today, but did want to start repairing the latest gash.

However, before I moved the body shell I went back to the previous gaping wound.

There are just two small sections left to do.



So I removed the bracket and tidied up the edges of the fibreglass.



Then I recycled a section from the "former" I'd used on the spare hump.



Looking at this, it dawned on me, that it would have been a better idea to use hardboard under the brackets.

Having hardboard behind the "wound" held in place by the brackets would certainly make filling in the gaps a lot easier to do.

My wife helped me move the body shell so I could work on it.

Here is a photo of the rear and although it doesn't look like it, the widened arch is very close to the size of the uncut one.



By the time I add the second hump, there will be unmatched curves all over the place, so this will just have to do.

At least it will look a bit better when I trim the edge of the driver's side (right of photo) to match(ish) the passenger side.



I layered on some parcel tape into the gap.



And after cutting out a lot of matting strips I was ready to start.



But Sod's Law meant the sky now looked like this.



So as a precaution I covered the rest of the car & grabbed a tarpaulin to protect the body shell.



The last section of the gaping would was finally sealed.





I will finish this off when the former has been removed.

I also managed to get most of the latest gash joined up as well.





I did get a little wet and had to work under the tarpaulin briefly, but thankfully it was a very short shower.

Still, I wrapped up my work to give it a better chance of setting if the rain returned.



Right, I'm off down the pub to meet my mate, the one who taught me to weld.

So until next time, take care, Paul.

[Mister Towed]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Oxford - No, I was the foolish one for believing the Cordite was an improvement on the Spyder and an easier build.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Improvement on the Spyder? How was Gary supposed to improve on perfection?

[garyh]

I thought that was a picture of you under the tarp...

[Axel]

Hi Paul

So many screws....! I was wondering if you are using self-drilling screws? It could save you time before you get soaked the next time ;-)

Well, I couldn't really guess from the picture, may be you are using them...

Anyway, good progress!

[Scottie22]

That is going to be a very special car when its done Paul, you have put so much into it.
It will look fabulous!

[CarNoob]

Hi Paul

Having chopped my body around quite a bit. wont the hump over the rear wheel be wider than the other it may look odd!. The best thing I did was move the divers hump to line up with the seat.

[Paul L]

Mr T - Well it was the beautiful Spyder #66 that got me into this mess in the first place!

Gary - My attempt to finish the fibre glassing under the 'tarp would have made a much better picture.

Axel - They are self tapping screws, but I still drill separate pilot holes to avoid cracking the body shell which takes extra time.

Scottie - Cheers, although at this point in the build, I will settle for looking "finished" or "on the road", rather than fabulous.

CarNoob - I know it sounds odd, but the "cut & shut" has actually improved the symmetry in sections of the humps (see below).
It is not easy to see in the photo, but the rear passenger side of the body shell is also slightly lower than the driver's side.
( This is something I remember Oxford fixing on his build. )
So, as I said before, by the time I add the spare hump, the "ups & downs" across the whole of the rear may well look very "odd".
But if I ever want to finish the car, I just have to pick the big battles and let a lot of other things just go.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Every day has its cloud - Part 1
I started the day by taking a tape measure to the inside of the wheel arches.
( So it was spooky to see CarNoob's question later on. )

At this point the width of the two arches arches is very similar.

Passenger side - Original



Driver's Side - Stretched



Although I must confess it isn't a close match across the whole arch, but "it is what it is".

First job was to remove the brackets and hardboard to leave...

The original gaping wound.



And the latest gash.



Sad as it sounds, I'm still getting a kick out the fact the fibreglass repairs holds everything together.

The next job was to minimise the impact of the different rear arch "sweeps".

As this is what the passenger side looked like.





But the driver's side was "sticking up" too much following the cut & shut.





The view along the inside edge also helps highlight the difference.





So the passenger side got a very light trim.



But I cut a much bigger chunk out of the driver's side.







Note:
You can see I needed to cut "down" quite a bit, so I could extend the same body shell profile from the left (as you look at the photo).

End of Part 1...

[Paul L]

Every day has its cloud - Part 2
Then I used my angle grinder to tidy up all the screw holes on the inside.





Then I put some parcel tape on some mesh and fixed that to the body shell.







I also widened the thinnest part of the gash, which was too narrow to fill with fibreglass from the inside.



After two sessions of fibre glassing I had...

Covered all the screw holes on the inside of the original gaping wound.



And the holes on the inside of the latest gash too.



Started to rebuild the rear edge of the body shell.



Started to seal the narrowest part of the new gash.



But by now, the dark clouds had returned.



So there was just enough time to tidy up and get the cover on, before it started to bucket down again.



There was even thunder and lightening as I was typing this up, so that is probably it for today.

Still, I have made some progress and that is the key to getting this project finished.

Until next time, take care, Paul.

[Paul L]

Wet! Wet! Wet!
You think that by now I'd would know better than to take a chance with the weather.

But I figured if I made a bit of noise now, I could start some filler work early in the morning (if it was dry).

So I moved the bonnet back to the rest of the car and covered that for the night.

Then I turned the body shell over and set it up on some blocks.

I removed the mesh former and tidied up the fibreglass a bit.



Obviously there is still a bit of work to do to blend in the transition from back to side.

But at least I now have got something to work with.

I also countersunk all the bracket holes and there were quite a lot of them.



Hopefully this photo gives you a good idea of what the back of the car looks like.



The "sweep" on each side is not identical by any means, it is, as Oxford said, a Cordite wide boy.

But it is not as obviously wrong as it was when I started.

Similarly the arch "humps" over the wheels are not glaringly different.



And by the time the car is all in one colour, I think you will have to look to spot the difference.

Mind you, if you start to look for differences, you will have plenty to keep you occupied.

You can just about see the rain drops in the photos above, as sure enough the rain had returned.

So by the time I'd got the cover on, I was once again quite damp.



Please let it be dry tomorrow.

[Scottie22]

Paul, its wonderful to see how you have progressed, a few months ago you never would have considered doing any of what you are doing now!

If its not right now, you just butcher it until it is right! Fantastic stuff really. Keep it up.

[Mister Towed]

That's looking fine Paul, the original Spyder bodies aren't particularly true at the back either. If you look closely you'll see the rear 'valance' on mine slopes from offside to nearside. By the time I got to that bit I just wanted to get the car finished so I left it as it was. Nobody's ever commented on it so it doesn't exactly leap out at you.

[swifty]

The nav II rear valance also slopes from the offside to the nearside along with the offside rear arch issue showing more tyre than the nearside. From that view yours does not look as bad as the Nav II that i have.