Are you madabout kit cars      
 "We've Got Kit Cars Covered" Information about Madabout-Kitcars.com Contact Madabout-Kitcars.com         Home of UK kit cars - madabout-kitcars.com Various kit car write ups All the latest kit car news Kit car related and general discussion

Search
Manufacturers
Kit Cars
Kit Car Data sheets
Picture Gallery
SVA Knowledgebase
Clubs & Communities
Build cost estimator
Kit cars for sale
Knowledge Base 
KitcarUSA.com
Classic-Kitcars.com
 

Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > General Build Chat

General Build Chat Area for general build chat, questions, tips, tricks and progress

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 3rd July 2020, 11:19
SwiftyDS SwiftyDS is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 326
SwiftyDS is on a distinguished road
Default Velomobile

Anyone familiar with these or experience with building a body for one?



I know this is a bit of a departure from the normal kits/builds on here, but you may have seen my separate thread about building a reverse trike and MSVA question. As part of researching frame/body design I starting thinking about a stop-gap project to build on my electric bike experience using a recumbent trike frame.

Seems Velomobiles are very popular in Germany and the Netherlands. Some of them are very odd looking things, others look rather neat. Due to the aerodynamic properties of the body of these, the amount of energy needed to cycle at say, 20 mph, is significantly less than on a normal bike or even a race bike. Couple this with an electric hub motor, even one rated at the legal 250w for pedal assisted bikes, and you can get some serious speed.



I can source a recumbent trike relatively cheaply, but looking into the cost of the bodies for these from companies in Germany and the Netherlands I was really surprised how much they sell for ... cheapest I could find was around Euro 4,000!

So I’ve started looking at what’s involved in building / fabricating a body similar to that shown above to fit over a recumbent trike frame like the one here....



Key thing seems to be to keep it as light as possible but needs to be ridged enough at speeds up to around 30 - 35mph.

I’ve done some simple GRP moulding before but never anything of this size/scale. Done some digging and there’s a couple of other options to building some form of buck and then taking a mould from it:

- Coroplast sheeting (4mm) with some form of ally/plastic tube frame under neath
- Balastic nylon fabric over a frame
- Zote Foam

Issue with all of these over GRP is trying to get compound curves - basically don’t think you can so it ends up looking somewhat angular!



Any one got any bright ideas that might help me here?
Reply With Quote
Available from eBay
  #2  
Old 3rd July 2020, 12:33
Lucky@LeMans Lucky@LeMans is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,142
Lucky@LeMans is on a distinguished road
Default

You could do a rebody on a Sinclair C5 !

Joking apart I can see electric bikes and trikes becoming more popular in the future especially in bigger towns and cities .

I think the recumbent style bikes and trikes are a bit of a hazard on main roads, there are several owners near me. They are so low you hardly notice them until you are really close.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 3rd July 2020, 12:50
SwiftyDS SwiftyDS is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 326
SwiftyDS is on a distinguished road
Default

I’ve looked at a C5 and actually restored one a couple of years ago. Not that stable with the single wheel at the front.

I know what you mean about viability of these - what I have seen though first hand is just how much the velo body painted in the right colours helps them stand out?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 3rd July 2020, 15:22
Paul L's Avatar
Paul L Paul L is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wembley, London
Posts: 5,056
Paul L is on a distinguished road
Default

SwiftyDS – Sorry, if I’m being thick here, but are you looking for an alternative to using fibreglass, or ideas on how to build the buck for a fibreglass body?

Alternative to fibreglass – Alloy sheet

https://randygrubb.com/decopod-tri-pod/

Alternative to fibreglass – As above, but using Linen + ‘Dope’, as per Salvage Squad - Gypsy Moth – from 22 minutes in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tivUXdrA8zE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_dope

Building a fibreglass buck:

https://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/ga...-project-83285

https://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/ga...dy-buck-313330

https://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/ga...tribute-538089

Plus, closer to home, lots of fibre glassing ideas here:

andysharrock

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...ead.php?t=7302

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...ead.php?t=7259

Mister Towed

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...ead.php?t=6672

Good luck, Paul.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 3rd July 2020, 17:23
SwiftyDS SwiftyDS is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 326
SwiftyDS is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks Paul L - exactly what I was looking for - both ideas on building a buck and alternatives.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 5th July 2020, 10:28
Lucky@LeMans Lucky@LeMans is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,142
Lucky@LeMans is on a distinguished road
Default

Here is another idea for making a body...…..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak_rgDPwCEY
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 5th July 2020, 10:34
Lucky@LeMans Lucky@LeMans is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,142
Lucky@LeMans is on a distinguished road
Default

Here is the method for fibre glassing the structure...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEYtrmeerSk
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 5th July 2020, 11:20
SwiftyDS SwiftyDS is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 326
SwiftyDS is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks Lucky - I also found something earlier today similar to the cedar wood canoe where someone had built a pretty convincing velomobile shell with compound curves using thin aircraft ply.

I thought that would be too heavy but the YouTube video was comparing it to a GRP/carbon fibre shell of similar size and it was actually lighter!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 6th July 2020, 07:39
redratbike's Avatar
redratbike redratbike is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,446
redratbike is on a distinguished road
Default

Some race car panels are thin fibreglass with balsa wood strengthening would keep it light

You have me thinking about a project

Have you ever heard of these people ?

https://www.miromax.lt/en/m-6/c-26/c...5__bonus#tog80
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 6th July 2020, 23:22
bladerunner bladerunner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: lancashire
Posts: 38
bladerunner is on a distinguished road
Default

Link below shows a very simple shape for a velocycle but looks very nice in my opinion

https://www.blueskydsn.com/kit_aero.html

Next link is for an original design which replicated the Messerschmitt KR200 They sell all the body parts for the cars. Phoenix classic autos also sell Messerschmitt body parts at reasonable prices.

http://messerschmitt-werke.de/lang_en/index.php

https://electricbikereview.com/forum...omobiles.3666/

Cascu make grp body parts for the kr200

http://https://m.facebook.com/classic.and.sports.cars.unlimited/?locale2=en_GB

https://www.phoenixclassicautopanels.com/new-page-5

Last edited by bladerunner; 6th July 2020 at 23:49..
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 7th July 2020, 07:55
SwiftyDS SwiftyDS is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 326
SwiftyDS is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redratbike View Post
Some race car panels are thin fibreglass with balsa wood strengthening would keep it light

You have me thinking about a project

Have you ever heard of these people ?

https://www.miromax.lt/en/m-6/c-26/c...5__bonus#tog80
Thanks - yes I looked at miromax a little while back when I was helping a 3D printing company who have been working on a carbon re-inforced 3D printed chassis and were looking at electric rickshaw models for comparison on power needs.

I had thought about balsa strengthening but wasn’t sure it would be strong enough.

Funnily enough this popped up on eBay last night ... think it’s marine or aircraft ply based. I’ve asked the seller what the weight is roughly of the shell...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133457921376

And then I found this ... seems it’s aluminium sheet over a frame ....

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184354556577

Starting a trend :-)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 7th July 2020, 07:58
SwiftyDS SwiftyDS is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 326
SwiftyDS is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner View Post
Link below shows a very simple shape for a velocycle but looks very nice in my opinion

https://www.blueskydsn.com/kit_aero.html

Next link is for an original design which replicated the Messerschmitt KR200 They sell all the body parts for the cars. Phoenix classic autos also sell Messerschmitt body parts at reasonable prices.

http://messerschmitt-werke.de/lang_en/index.php

https://electricbikereview.com/forum...omobiles.3666/

Cascu make grp body parts for the kr200

http://https://m.facebook.com/classic.and.sports.cars.unlimited/?locale2=en_GB

https://www.phoenixclassicautopanels.com/new-page-5
Thanks - I’d not come across the AeroCoupe kit before. Looks like it could be a good start point. Will see what the plan set looks like.

I had seen the Morgan before when looking at CycleKarts for inspiration. Looks really neat but think the layout is more pedal car as most velomobiles are based on a recumbent trike chassis layout with the pedals ahead of the front axle.

Lots of inspiration here to help me decide on what route to take...thanks again
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 7th July 2020, 19:10
redratbike's Avatar
redratbike redratbike is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,446
redratbike is on a distinguished road
Default

You can use Balsa ply strong and light
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 7th July 2020, 19:43
SwiftyDS SwiftyDS is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 326
SwiftyDS is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks for all the input and feedback folks. Decided this afternoon to go for the Alleweder A2 that was up on eBay.



It’s a full suspension monocoque structure out of aluminium - similar to air craft structure with bulkheads clad in thin ally sheet.



It’s also got a mid-mount motor fitted for pedal assist which will help with the hills.



They are still made in the US and are available in kit form, but this one was an original European built model.

Gives me a base to work from and it’s relatively light so can decide if I want to try to remodel parts of it or build a lightweight structure over the ally skin to make it a bit more attractive.




Thanks again for all the input.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 7th July 2020, 21:31
redratbike's Avatar
redratbike redratbike is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,446
redratbike is on a distinguished road
Default

Keep us updated we are all interested
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 8th July 2020, 08:50
bladerunner bladerunner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: lancashire
Posts: 38
bladerunner is on a distinguished road
Default

That looks good. As an aircraft designer I can appreciate this type of structure. Surprisingly there are very few kit or production road cars built this way. I can only think of the Robin Hood lightweight 7 they did a few years ago and the Berkeley cars had aluminium riveted to a fibreglass shell.
You could use this type of construction for you reverse trike. Somebody in the states fitted a motor bike engine and two front wheels to a Bede BD-5 kit aircraft to form a single seater car. The BD-5 was a popular kit aircraft constructed from aluminium sheets.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 8th July 2020, 10:54
SwiftyDS SwiftyDS is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 326
SwiftyDS is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner View Post
That looks good. As an aircraft designer I can appreciate this type of structure. Surprisingly there are very few kit or production road cars built this way. I can only think of the Robin Hood lightweight 7 they did a few years ago and the Berkeley cars had aluminium riveted to a fibreglass shell.
You could use this type of construction for you reverse trike. Somebody in the states fitted a motor bike engine and two front wheels to a Bede BD-5 kit aircraft to form a single seater car. The BD-5 was a popular kit aircraft constructed from aluminium sheets.
Good luck and keep us posted.
I built one of the early RH Engineering folded stainless steel monocoque kits about 25 years ago - based on a triumph Dolomite for suspension and engine. Have to say it wasn’t the most rigid of things - if i remember correctly the front and rear suspension mounts were welded in at the factory and after I sold it on I heard the welds had cracked!

The previous owner has had the Alleweder for 10 years plus so hopefully should be ok. Certainly looks a strong shell.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 8th July 2020, 11:06
Lucky@LeMans Lucky@LeMans is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,142
Lucky@LeMans is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwiftyDS View Post
I built one of the early RH Engineering folded stainless steel monocoque kits about 25 years ago - based on a triumph Dolomite for suspension and engine. Have to say it wasn’t the most rigid of things - if i remember correctly the front and rear suspension mounts were welded in at the factory and after I sold it on I heard the welds had cracked!

The previous owner has had the Alleweder for 10 years plus so hopefully should be ok. Certainly looks a strong shell.
The early monocoque Robin Hoods were great little cars for the money. I built several of the Sierra based kits with the stainless chassis. There were a couple of well known modifications that were quick and easy fixes that transformed the road holding and strengthened the body.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +0. The time now is 06:54.

copyright © madabout-kitcars.com 2000-2024
terms and conditions | privacy policy