It's on order!!!!

Bobnic · #1 2nd February 2011, 12:38

Having posted a request to peruse someone's bulit Sportster more closely recently, unfortunately too darn busy to get out there and see one of them(thankyou for all the offers BTW), the decision and deposit have been made and hoping to collect kit from Marlin this April!! Probably going to use a 328i E36/E46 or 330 Ci E46 donor (My dad's a bit of a speed freak) maybe even use the 6 speed manual box from the E46, if that's possible??!! Have "A guy" in the know trying to source the donor car for me (and help with stripping) and co-builder my Dad.
He mentioned there maybe a mix of parts from 2 different donor cars that are supplied, how does this affect the SVA registration please (bit previous I know, but worth asking!) if more than one donor car is used, my gut feeling says it's got to come from a car with a chassis that you then scrap and inform the DVLA of this and then use that to re-register the Sportster later?? Please correct me if I'm wrong. I look forward to posting a lot more techy questions as the build unfolds. :-)

MartinClan · #2 2nd February 2011, 12:42

The main thing multiple donors affects is the registration. You have to have (as I remember) 3 of the main components (front axle, rear axle, transmission...) from 1 veihicle or else you will end up with a dreaded Q plate....

Robin

GreatOldOne · #3 2nd February 2011, 12:49

Taken from another thread where morris asked the same question:

Quote:

Originally Posted by morris

I've also been toying with buying a 5 series for the engine then a 318 for the other bits and bobs though that would mean a Q plate for certain (not sure why that's such a bad thing)

Not necessarily - as long as you can prove that 2 major components came from the 318, you'd get an age related plate base on the age of that donor. You could argue that the gearbox and the diff / rear running gear are you two components there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Directgov Website

if a new monocoque bodyshell or chassis from a specialist kit manufacturer is used (or an altered chassis or bodyshell from an existing vehicle) together with two major components from a donor vehicle, an age related mark will be assigned. The mark will be based on the age of the donor vehicle. An IVA, ESVA, SVA or MSVA test will be required to register the vehicle.
Where there are insufficient parts from a donor vehicle or in cases where the original registration mark is unknown, an IVA, ESVA, SVA or MSVA certificate will be required to register the vehicle and a 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated.

major components from the original vehicle - ie suspension (front & back); steering assembly; axles (both); transmission or engine.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...le/DG_10014246
http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg...mId=1083034396

You just have to prove where they came from on DVLA inspection day

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...46&postcount=4

timbo · #4 2nd February 2011, 13:15

My only advice with the donor would be:
1. Make sure you have the V5
2. If its an M52 engine, beware the immobiliser...
Tim

Bobnic · #5 2nd February 2011, 13:25

Thanks for the advice so far guys. Tim, what do you mean by "Beware the Immobiliser"? Will it not like the change of scene, and stop the motor from working?

Thanks

Rob

timbo · #6 2nd February 2011, 17:33

The immobiliser changed on M52 engined models - I initially thought it just required a matching ECU, immobiliser and key, indeed I had it running on this combo but ran into reliability problems (would give me about 50 starts then die).
Further research suggested I also needed to run it through a matching instrument cluster although this didn't solve the problem either. I currently have a guy in Caerphilly trying to bypass the immobiliser (having tried lots of other things), which has taken him many months...

Of course, it could just be my efforts with the wiring jungle but you can see why I said beware

Good luck
Tim

peterux · #7 2nd February 2011, 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by timbo

The immobiliser changed on M52 engined models - I initially thought it just required a matching ECU, immobiliser and key, indeed I had it running on this combo but ran into reliability problems (would give me about 50 starts then die).
Further research suggested I also needed to run it through a matching instrument cluster although this didn't solve the problem either. I currently have a guy in Caerphilly trying to bypass the immobiliser (having tried lots of other things), which has taken him many months...

Of course, it could just be my efforts with the wiring jungle but you can see why I said beware

Good luck
Tim

Congratulations on your commitment to the world of kit cars!!

I can confirm that the e46/M52 is a nightmare of electronic wizardry outside the complete donor car. The only solution I came up with was a new standalone ECU from DTA but you are talking about £1000 extra plus a couple of mapping sessions. If you really want the M52 double vanos engine be prepared for lots of hassle or additional cost. (But maybe Tim's expert will prove me wrong ;-) )

Also, you need to start reading up on the IVA test and registration process. They are two completely separate processes but you have to complete both.
The IVA is to prove the car is roadworthy and the registration is to make it legal to use on the road. As Robin and Jason have said, if you use more than one donor car or parts from multiple cars you'll probably end up with a 'Q' plate registration. Some folks don't seem to mind these and there is no real problem have a Q plate except it advertises it is a kit car.

good luck!

...peter

Bobnic · #8 2nd February 2011, 20:11

Thanks for your advice Tim and Peter. So am I best to avoid a M52 328i by the sounds of it? So best to go either M50 325 or M54 330 engine? Or is there a better option altogether please? Haven't even got the build manual yet and already I'm scratching my head!!! Have a guy my dad knows who maybe a wizard with this type of problem, will sound him out and let you know if he knows the way through the wiring jungle!!

No regrets.......Yet!

Rob

morris · #9 2nd February 2011, 20:29

Hi Bobnic, this is the only reason I've just gone for an M50 donor, I couldn't face the hassle of the complex electronic problems. I had my heart set on an M52B28 with the 2.5 manifold trick to increase the Hp but decided it wasn't worth the risk.

I've also got similar questions in this area. When you've finally stripped everything you want from my donor, what are the options

- sell/pass body on to scrappy including transfer of V5 in the usual way then keep a photocopy of the V5 as evidence of original vehicle.

- sell/pass body on to scrappy as parts but retain the original V5 and responsibility for SORN every year (even though the car doesn't physically exist)

- declare the car as scrapped by myself. Can I even do this or will I have to provide unavailable evidence of ecologically friendly disposal.

- keep the car in the back garden for foxes to live in

- something else?

Bobnic · #10 2nd February 2011, 20:38

Thanks Morris for your advice, may well be the sensible option I feel to go with and M50 lump, although does anyone know if the M3 E36 engine (S50B30 I think it is/was) is Ok as it's still based on the M50 block I think? Again all advice greatly appreciated and any nuggets please don't hesitate to throw them my way.
And as far as retaining an age related plate goes as long as I have 2 "major" components from a car with a V5 as proof sounds like that's that sorted I think!!
P.S. Like the BMW Foxhouse idea Morris, beats a Duckhouse any day!!!

peterux · #11 2nd February 2011, 20:43

Hi both,

I followed option 2....

" sell/pass body on to scrappy as parts but retain the original V5 and responsibility for SORN every year (even though the car doesn't physically exist)"

My 'virtual' donor was scrapped by the DVLA at the same time I registered my Sportster about 4 years after I dismantled it.

My donor shell was taken away by a local metal merchant with a grab.

Going....... by marlinpeter, on Flickr

Going.......... by marlinpeter, on Flickr

Gone! Body shell going for recyling by marlinpeter, on Flickr

Mine was the second shell he collected that day!!

As you can see there wasn't much left once i'd finished taking it apart.

NigelB · #12 2nd February 2011, 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobnic

may well be the sensible option I feel to go with and M50 lump, although does anyone know if the M3 E36 engine (S50B30 I think it is/was) is Ok as it's still based on the M50 block I think?

Have a look at http://www.bmwheaven.com/database/engine.php for engine variants and the models they were fitted to.

I've gone for the M50B25 after Timbo's troubles, but I think the key issues is the engine management system. It changed from the DME3.1 on most of the M50s to DME MS41.0 on the M52s

But unfortunately the S50 isn't listed so you can't tell what that's got so it doesn't help a lot...............

Bobnic · #13 3rd February 2011, 12:00

Thanks again guys for all your helpful tips!! Have dispatched the man in the know to try and source a 325 M50, or an M3 S50 IF he can, apparently he'd be a hen's dentist if he can find an E36 M3 for a reasonable price!!! He also agrees the later engines are a lot more tricky...In his words "Anything is possible, but some things aren't far off impossible!!!". So the hunt is on for the E36 single lady owner, never raced or rallied with full dealer stamps and low mileage, or as it will probably turn out, an ugly duckling with rust scabs everywhere!! May do Patrick and Richard's 2.8 stroker upgrade as desribed in CKC mag later/or even possibly at time of build as it sounds like fun, sorry to be a copycat!!!!

Thanks again for all your responses, keep 'em coming please!!

Rob

Sorton · #14 4th February 2011, 14:00

I thought the stroker conversion was for the M20 engine - or have I missed something!

Good luck with your search for a donor, but beware the nikasil problem. Incidentally the old Marlin demonstrator was an E36 M3 so that can be made to work.

Bobnic · #15 4th February 2011, 14:54

No, sorry, you're right, it was on the M20. I think I may have fried my brain already with all the different M and S engines, vanos, nikasil issues etc.
My Dad has done some digging and came up with this:

The M50 was used and badged 3.25i between 1991 – 1995, There was a technical update in 1992 to introduce the M50 TU which brought in the Vanos timing and this ran to 1995. The
M52 was introduced in 1995 and was badged 323i.

From all of this I reckon we are looking for a 1992 – 1995 E36 badged 325i
with the M50 TU engine version (Vanos) to get an easier ECU time?? PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong!! Or an old M20 from an E30. Will speak to Marlin re M3 E36 engine set up, as this would be my absolute ideal scenario!!!

Thanks again for your help.

Rob

Mike · #16 4th February 2011, 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobnic

No, sorry, you're right, it was on the M20. I think I may have fried my brain already with all the different M and S engines, vanos, nikasil issues etc.
My Dad has done some digging and came up with this:

The M50 was used and badged 3.25i between 1991 – 1995, There was a technical update in 1992 to introduce the M50 TU which brought in the Vanos timing and this ran to 1995. The
M52 was introduced in 1995 and was badged 323i.

From all of this I reckon we are looking for a 1992 – 1995 E36 badged 325i
with the M50 TU engine version (Vanos) to get an easier ECU time?? PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong!! Or an old M20 from an E30. Will speak to Marlin re M3 E36 engine set up, as this would be my absolute ideal scenario!!!

Thanks again for your help.

Rob

Rob

Several of us have arrived at the same conclusion - an M50 with single vanos and simple ECU.
There is a nice looking metallic pale blue Sporster, which I guess has an M3 engine (as it has an M badge on the grille?) If you look at the photos on Patricks website I think he has kept the BMW binnacle with all the guages/clocks etc, and no doubt central locking. This way it can be made to work, but you will need the complete donor, not just the engine, or even the engine loom.
Mike

Timoteus · #17 4th February 2011, 20:14

Hi Bobnic, great thread, i am just about to place my order, I think. I have been umming and aghing for months, been looking at every possible 'kit' available and counted my tower of pennies over and over again just to see if I can make it a little more.

Really good to know that tehre may well be someone else starting at about the same time. I am not setting a time limit so lets not race.

What made you finally plump for the sportster?

peterux · #18 4th February 2011, 20:42

Wow, more new builders, where are you all coming from?
Marlin has kept a low profile so I think it must have been the Complete Kit Cars feature about Patrick's superb build.

Or is it this site?

Am I right?

Anyway, great to see a sudden revival in a classic kit car again.

...peter

morris · #19 4th February 2011, 22:06

For me, I've been following all of your builds for well over a year now. I've never liked the 7 style kits (cos every kit looks like that) and I don't want a cobra copy (cos every kit that's not a 7 is a cobra) so for the last 6-7 years I've had my heart set on a tornado TS40 as the ideal car to make me scared even to press the start button. I was dreaming of transaxles and trumpets but when you do the sums (and lets face it if you're going to go a gt40 copy you have to make a proper job of it) you're talking over £40K. That would take me over 10 years to build even if I never spent a penny on anything else. I looked at GD-70s and Ultimas and they're all in that same bracket so that's when I started looking around at other kits. I fancied some of the Jag replicas but again, to do it well you have to spend a lot of cash and that's when I came across the sportster.

You get exclusive looks and donor base, very low numbers so more exclusivity plus it's on the more affordable end of the scale. being a design out there on its own means there's no expectation from other people on how it turns out so you can make what you want of it. even just the fact it is designed around a BMW with an I6 engine gives it that little something different from all the Rover V8 and ford power cars.

I'm planning on a "get it on the road and tart it up later" strategy. I know lots of people like to get the interior and engine dressing right from the start but I'd rather go for a minimalist approach in terms of interior and cost to get me through IVA and out on the road and then I get spend the money as end when I can afford it over the years making it into the perfect car.

Bobnic · #20 4th February 2011, 22:24

Timoteus, I remember an old science teacher of mine having a Marlin (probably a Hunter/Roadster/Berlinetta) and always thought it was the mutt's nuts, and that's nearly 20 years ago now!! I completely agree with Morris too, not a 7, too many, not a cobra, always looks like a wannabe to me, and I think Marlin have got it pretty much spot on with the styling and price. I have quite a few mates with TVRs and look forward to exchanging GRP round Castle combe one day!
Time limit?? Well let's just say, like all good plans it will be ready when it's ready, but by the end of this year would be great, and at the risk of sounding like Tony Blair and Gordon Brown again "I agree with Morris". Would like to get it on the road ASAP and then fine tune and fettle once We've got the IVA seal of approval.
On a slighly different note, has anybody done a 0-60 in their Sportster (especially if it's a 2.5), just out of interest, I'm not a hooligan, would just like some idea of what the stats are please.