Another Cordite Is Born ...

[Mister Towed]

Originally Posted by Viatron

Nice job, any hole that big in fibreglass needs to be made by either stitch drilling and filing or using a hole saw.

Agreed, I would expect that wood bit to split the edges of the hole in fibreglass and leave cracks radiating from it.

I bought a set of hole saws from my local hardware store for about a tenner. They work really well, cutting very clean holes, but I did burn out a reasonable new power drill using the largest saw to cut too many holes in quick succession for the gauges

Planning and executing all the little mods is one of the real joys of Sammio building. You don't get such little pleasures with a mainstream kit-car.

[Paul L]

Viatron & Mr T - Thanks for the feedback chaps.

I've seen cheap & cheerful drill bit sets on ebay that look like this...



Although I'd still need to buy the odd bigger size for things like the gauges.

Is this the kind of thing you mean?

Cheers, Paul.

[mikmiglia]

This will also work mate, i would prime foam with resin fast as it will be stronger, and when you add filler it will stick

[Mister Towed]

Yep, that's the type of hole saw set although mine has them from about 15mm up to about 108mm.

[Paul L]

Even though it was dark outside, I wanted to quickly check something in preparation for the weekend.
So sorry about the poor photos, but they are the best I could manage.

Mind The Gap - Part 1:
When removing the seat belt bracket fouling the body work the other week, I spotted something else.
The top edge of the rear cockpit body work is being pushed out by the frame rail behind it.
Not easy to see, but you can just make out the bulge in near the bottom of the hump…





This area is effectively being "stretched" to allow the front of the cockpit to fit over the frame at the other end.
Again, not easy to see, but it is the centre of the dash area that is bulging out...





So gap between front & back of the cockpit is marginally smaller than the corresponding gap in the frame!

I'd also spotted this photo when I was searching for one of AndyP57's rear cockpit access panel…



I had previously noticed that his frame had a different design to allow the steering column to pass through.
( There is a "kink" in one of his vertical frame rails, whereas DonnySoutherner & I have straight rails. )

But what I hadn't spotted before, was that he had a revised design on the top "dash board" rail too.
So is looks like DonnySoutherner had a MkI version, I've got the MkII & Andy has a MkIII version!
Which gives me some comfort that it may be the frame design, & not my fitting of it, that is the problem.

Before I start to take my jigsaw to parts of the body shell, there was one other area that I needed to check.
The body will only be able to move forward if there is a gap between the door cut outs & the frame work.
Unfortunately these touch the frame, with no real "wiggle" room to "shove" the body forward a few mm.

Driver's Side



Passenger Side



Therefore it may take a combination of alterations to both the body work & the frame to fix this.
So I will have another look in daylight just to make sure I am not missing something else.

The door cut outs lead me nicely to a related issue...

Doors - More Thoughts:
I found an old photo of one of MikMiglia's "hockey stick" bonnet braces for Mr T's build thread.
The photo was from Barry May's build and this had doors added to the original Spyder body shell…



It is interesting to see how the shape of these doors & their openings differ from my Cordite ones.
The bodywork edges are very straight and only a bottom "lip" was added before this painting photo.



It is only when you compare the above with my first attempt at door "fitting" that the difference is clear.



Mike himself hopes to post an update on his own build shortly & I look forward to seeing his doors too.
But I've got the feeling there is no escaping some major re-working to get my Cordite doors to fit / work.
The only good news is that if the door cut outs get re-worked the body might be able to move forward.

Rimmer Bros:
Received an outstanding piece of customer service from Rimmer Bros. following my "big box" delivery.
When I finally opened the box, there were a couple of items that were not quite what I expected.
There had been some sort of technical problem with the website photos so I needed to return them.
I spoke to them on the phone, then I needed to send an email to get a "Return Authorisation Number".
So I mentioned the headlight retaining rings I'd bought in error last year when I clicked on the wrong parts.
( I only realised my error months after their normal returns policy had expired & was planning to Ebay them. )
But fair play, in a very generous act of good will, they will let me return these at the same time for a refund.
I just need to pack everything up carefully and get it to the Post Office on Saturday morning.

Whilst I'd checked all the small parts, I'd actually left the radiator bubble wrapped for "safe keeping".
So just to be on the safe side, out it came for a quick check before being tucked back up in bubble wrap.



One thing that strikes me is just how light it is, I know it is made up of a large chunk of "air", but still.
I also realised just what a clever design it is too, as although it is wider, the inlet / outlet pipes are inset.
These pipes are effectively in the same place as the originals, so I can re-use the donor's radiator hoses.

I read that Mr T had accidently damaged his new radiator while working on his car which was a shame.
So in the 'learning from others' tradition I will not rush to fit this & then fit some sort of protection when I do.

Front Indicator Mounting:
While I was outside I thought I'd have a quick look at where the front indicator might go.
( Sorry I know the photo is very blurry. )



It looks like the overall diameter (taking account of the rubber seal) does get in the way a bit.
So I will need to "cut in" the foam to take account the body lines from the grille & headlight.
At least I have plenty of foam to mess about with if I need to try a few options.

Anyway I'm off to do a bit more beard scratching, take care, Paul.

Replies:
Mikmiglia - Thanks Mike, another great tip.
Mr T - Cheers, in which case, I'll keep an eye out for a set with a wider range of sizes.

[froggyman]

I am sure Mike will point you in the right direction with the doors. As a quick fix Andy bonded his in. However I think it's worth spending some time on, to get them right, especially if you set your heart on doors in the original plan of things. You seem to be overcoming a lot of hurdles in far from ideal working conditions so I have every confidence you will find a solution.

[Paul L]

Weather Watch:
Well it arrears to have rained quite heavily over night...



[Thinking Positively] Well, at least it got rid of the last of the snow. [/Glass Half Full]



Jokes aside, I managed to grab a few minutes outside this morning...

Front Indicator Mountings - Part 2:
I had my first attempt at shaping the back of the foam to "blend in" with the contours of the bonnet.
This involved removing a bit at a time, offering it up & repeating until I had a half decent fit.
I've taped things in place for now, as I can't fit the rubber seal until I've drilled a hole in the bonnet.



But this wasn't quite right, as although it looked OK from the front, it was not vertical.





So I had another go with my other mount (originally intended for the passenger side).
I got a bit closer to the shape I had in mind, but it still wasn't quite what I wanted.
( Red circle marked around edge of vertical surface just to highlight the angles. )



The good news is that this looks like a good way to build the indicator mounts.
Although, as I look at the photos, I think I might lower the position a little bit.

So as I have got plenty of foam to play with I will have another go.
But this time, I'll shape the back to match the bonnet first, then sort out the front.

I've got more things to update today, but that will do for now.

Cheers, Paul.

Replies:
Froggyman - Cheers & thanks for the vote of confidence.
I would like the doors to work if possible and will be updating more on that later today.

[Paul L]

Mind The Gap - Part 2:
Before my quick check the other night, I was convinced this was going to be an easy fix using my jigsaw.
But the cold light of day confirms a fundamental problem that I need to take more time to resolve correctly.
This "three way" join in the frame protrudes beyond the body line of the dash & really needs to be moved.
( Photo taken underneath the dash, looking up. )



So I will add cutting & re-welding this section to provide a better fit to my list of frame mods required. *
Until then, I will not start taking any chunks out of the dashboard body work.

* It looks like my welding lesson will now take place in early February, which is fine by me.

However, not all of the bodywork was safe from my jigsaw as I returned to the perennial thorn in my side…

Doors - Again!:
It is clear that I really need to decide whether I am going to keep working doors, & if so, how will they work?
( As potential changes to the existing door cut outs may give me a better overall fit of the body shell. )

AndyP57 has effectively abandoned this design on both his own build & future Ribble kits.
Given that he'd already told me he had spent a long time trying to get the doors to fit, I was losing faith a bit.
But the photo of Barry May's build (see earlier post) actually gives me a small glimmer of hope.

Door Opening Lip:
I think one of the reasons that I was convinced the "lip" around the door cut was important was this...



This is how my body shell arrived & to me, it looked like the start of a cut in the wrong place that was stopped.
So part of me kept thinking it should remain for some reason, but now I know it needs to go.

Therefore I took a deep breath and removed the passenger side's lip completely with my jigsaw.

Before:



As I started to cut I found it hard to see where the lip & body joined, so out came my marker pen.



This made it much easier to see what I was doing.

After:



Doors:
I finally removed the yellow releasing wax that has been on the doors since they were delivered.
I figured it would be easier to see how well the doors were fitting without yellow blotches everywhere.

Before:



After:



Whilst this looks a lot better from a distance, both doors are actually in pretty poor condition.
They are splitting apart all over the place and there is "daylight" in some of the gaps (spot my orange glove).







Plus some missing gel coat (I have similar "bald" patches on the body shell too).



There was a time where finding this kind of thing would knock me back a bit.
But these days I just want to find out what needs to be done, add it to the list & keep going forward.

Door Fitting - Take 2:
I'd already done some basic "mock up" work with the doors, but removing the "lip" made things clearer.

This was the passenger side:



What I cant understand is why the inner door's leading edge bears no resemblance to the door cut out's profile?
External hinges allow the door to swing out without any danger of catching anything along the way.
And the forward edges in the Barry May photo posted previously clearly join up nicely.

The other thing visible in the other Barry photo was a "strip" added to the body opening.
There is plenty of room on the inside edge to do something similar on this car too.



This was the view of the outside of the passenger door:



The good news is the outer door skin is generally bigger than the opening, so can be trimmed to fit.
The only down side is the condition of the edges themselves (see above), but they can be fixed.

Top Tip:
One thing I always remember from reading another forum was to fit the passenger side door first.
So when you fit the driver's side, you will have learnt from the experience & hopefully do a better job.
Given that the driver's door gets used more, & by you, that is the more important one to get right.

Driver's Side:
As I was happy with the stage I'd reached on the passenger side, so repeated it on the driver's side.







Mirror Images:
I know that you can't see both sides of the car at the same time.
But you can see the insides of both doors, so why don't the trailing edges have the same set up?

Driver's Side - Rear of door on the left, bodywork on the right, not a great join, but a start:



Passenger Side - Not even close:



I have got more build news from today & more thoughts about what to do about the above.
But it has been a long day and I am going to call it a night now.
( Plus my first attempt to post this exceeded the 20 image limit. )

More tomorrow, cheers, Paul.

[oxford1360]

Keep going, Paul. I can feel your frustrations but it will be worth it in the end. I like your "There was a time where finding this kind of thing would knock me back a bit." A project like this certainly builds resilience.

[seanick]

I would do whatever it takes to keep the doors (more in a bit).
If you have doors you can still get in with a soft or hard top fitted. Whilst you may not be planning this at this stage, I found after a wet summer I was tired of leaving the car at home if rain was forecast for the evening run home. A modified midget hood would probably fit.....

With the doors you have, keep the outer skins and junk the rest. Make new frames by adding an inch spacer all round to the body aperture, face them up with Formica, then you have the basis for a plug (or buck) from which you can form a mould. Make mould, then make new inners that actually fit.
Alternatively, make new inner frames from ply and glass over.
At least if you do this you will have frames that can come up against the lip with a door seal, which umm....you have just cut off...

[AndyP57]

Hi Paul, PM in your inbox

[WorldClassAccident]

Seanick's tip about junking the inners is a good one.

I have similar door issues on the G46 which although I may (or may not) be selling, I keep thinking about. The fit on mine isn't so bad but could be a lot better.

My doors are good enough to make fit but if I redid the inners I could get the door much better and get door bins like I want. I could also glass in reinforcement points for the slams and catches in exactly the right place at the right angles.

Nothing like being unable to walk to give you time to think

[Mister Towed]

My sole reason for going doorless was that they're notoriously difficult to install, even in high cost kits, never mind a budget special where you do everything yourself.

Have you considered having just a driver's door? If you look at the original Lancia D24 it only has the one door on the off-side which looks race car cool imho. Phil J's probably going that way with his third build so you'd be in excellent company.

It'd give you the access you want while only giving you half the installation headaches. 99% of the time you'll be the sole occupant anyway and it's easier to climb into the passenger side as there's no steering wheel in the way.

As for weather equipment, I'm going with a zip centre tonnaeu cover, a gore-tex suit, goggles and just drive faster when it rains so the flyscreen swooshes the rain over your head into the slipstream. Oh, and a bucket and sponge in the passenger footwell

Best of luck and I know you'll get there in the end.

[Mister Towed]

Here we go - full weather equipment Spyder style...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3506323081...84.m1423.l2649

[Viatron]

Had a similar door issue on a mates car some years ago, can't remember the make now but they weren't around for long as the bodywork was awful. We ended up glueing foam all around the outside edge of the door shell then sanding it till it fitted nicely, we then just glassed over it finished with some tissue for a decent surface finish, obviously this relies on having a decent fibreglass backing to glue and glass to, no good if your filling thin air. As per the cordite the hinges were mounted on the door skin so before we glued the foam we bonded metal plates where the hinges were to go and made a cutout in the foam to still allow access to the back of the plates for doing up nuts, hope that makes sense?

[Viatron]

I have one of these from my racing days, very good at keeping the rain out, also retry good at keeping the sweat in though....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OMP-Kart-R...item1c2f808031

[seanick]

Whilst tidying the kitchen....I had a better idea for making door inner frameworks.
Use the door aperture on the car as the mould, gel and lay up your grp and make a new inner. Pop these out. When done you will need to shorten the length by say 2" and the height by say 1" for clearance of hinges and catch. Morris Minor hinges are an easy internal fit.
To reduce the frame simply cut into quarters on the straight sections, feather the edges of the joins (12:1 ratio) and glass over internally. Hang this frame without the skin, and when all good fit the skin, holding in place with small blobs of filler. Carefully glass skin to frame when this has set.

The wet weather gear and drive fast bit is fine until you come up behind a slow moving car, then you just sit in a puddle. The seats take weeks to dry, and the dashboard electrics corrode. I felt like a prate at traffic lights too! Totally different to motorbiking. I have the t-shirt!
Back to the housework......

[Mister Towed]

Originally Posted by Viatron

I have one of these from my racing days, very good at keeping the rain out, also retry good at keeping the sweat in though....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OMP-Kart-R...item1c2f808031

Ah yes, the plastic onesie. Probably not the most breathable garment available.

And Seanick I take your point about the impracticalities of driving an open car in the wet. I feel a mount for a golf umbrella that automatically deploys at under 50mph could be on the cards...

[seanick]

Umbrella...mmmmmm, never thought of that!

[Viatron]

Or alternatively emigrate to the south of France!