A glut of summer Sammio Sales!

[Mister Towed]

Sorry Dave, just getting a bit disheartened by the nay sayers.

I don't think any of us are building these cars as an investment and the biggest financial hit I ever took was the day I drove a brand new Mercedes Benz off the dealer forecourt I won't be doing that again, but I'd happily build another Sammio.

[oxford1360]

Not wishing to sound like some born-again hippy but we shouldn't be trying to place a monetary value on everything.

My well-being has been helped enormously by having a cave to which I can retreat to practise my problem-solving and planning, explore my creativity, learn new skills, and invent anger management techniques (usually involving a hammer).

At the end of the adventure I shall have something that I can be pleased with (possibly even proud of) and I can say, "I built that." That in itself will be worth every penny of the modest outlay.

If the sad day comes when I have to sell it, I shall have to take whatever anybody will pay me for it - for that is what it will be worth. That's life. But, I will still have built it.

As a financial "investment", a kit/special has the same chance of providing a return as John Terry has of becoming a UN Goodwill Ambassador. However, the benefits to your health will mean that you will live a longer more contented life because you have actually done something with your spare time.

Now, where is my dream catcher and those sacred Mayan crystals..............

[Mister Towed]

Not that I know anything about football but I heard that John Terry's applying for the chair of the Commision for Racial Equality while volunteering as a relate counsellor. What a nice guy...

[oxford1360]

Yes, and a G46 has been seen on the road.......

[WorldClassAccident]

Not wishing to sound like some born-again hippy but we shouldn't be trying to place a monetary value on everything.

Similar thing here. I always fancied building a car just to see what was involved. I was originally planning on a 1957 Vanwall F1 but realised the scale of what was involved so went for a G46 instead.

To me this is a hobby. Another hobby I have is mountain biking and I have mates with two or three bikes with a combined value of over £10,000, my three bikes cost about half of that and are now worth perhaps 1/5th. I still think it is money well spent as I have enjoyed the riding, why should I look to make money out of my hobby?

My wife's few is not quite the same when she sees the bills (for bikes or cars) but she is happier for my hobbies to have tyres than tits.

[oxford1360]

Originally Posted by WorldClassAccident

....she is happier for my hobbies to have tyres than tits.

If only there were a hobby that had both.

[WorldClassAccident]

I think there are a few tits in the world of car building that we inhabit...

[Mister Towed]

Perhaps they could include cycle twitching in the Omnium - last one to spot a great tit in the velodrome gets eliminated.

[AndyP57]

Which all goes to show that if you want a Sammio the way YOU want it, then YOU build it .
The car was built to please the builder himself and was only sold due to a change in circumstances.
None of your list would stop anyone having fun in the car.

[AndyP85]

Micha, any news on your Sammio build? I'm quite interested as to what you are doing!

[Psycho pops]

Micha, if the car is so bad why did your mate bother?
Then again he maybe knew he had an expert to call on that could fix all this shoddy work.....
Always a pleasure to read you positive posts..
Pops

[lancelot link]

Micha,
You kind of answer your own questions ...
I cannot and would not comment on the quality of that build but as you say ...'' the one that appears to be nicely built and trimmed...''

My experiences over the years have proven to me that shiny paint and new trim doesn't make a good car necessarily...In the Hot Rod circles , there are many beautifully finished cars that look and photograph like a million dollar car ....some of these cars have got the worst engineering you have ever seen ..there was a string of very dangerous Boyd style cars built in the U.K. about 10-15 years ago ...they won lots of prizes , multiple magazine features etc...but were undriveable !

Then you get a 'survivor' style Rat that looks like dung but is beautifully constructed underneath...

What gripes me is that you are very opinionated about the whole concept....it is a low buck bit of fun if you want it to be or you can build a totally new TUV style car.....or anything inbetween....

I get the impression from your postings that you want a perfectly finished , totally refurbed , period perfect , better than new car for the value you put them at of around three grand !!

Now you can have the perfect car or you can have the three grand car ....but you won't get both !!

Now I may be getting you wrong ....I do make mistakes , but I kind of feel that maybe you are on the wrong forum.....

The best way to show everyone the correct path is to build the car you think the Sammio should be , everything engineered and finished as it should be , decent paint etc.....no one will be looking for absolutely perfect , perhaps something like Phil9's or Barry's from Norfolk....and then so that we know you are a man who stands by your statements , an honourable man and not just an antogonist ....you must offer it for sale on various forums for the high end price of three grand !!

To get you started ...and I am sure Andy will help me here , we can offer you a decent discount on your kit as long as you post a FULLY comprenhensive build diary on here showing everyone the correct way to build your car....

[Nike55]

micha, There is no doubt that there are a number of vehicles out there that have been built purely for personal pleasure and with the best of intentions. This doesn't mean that they are built in a professional manner nor are deemed to be safe (even with an MOT). Buyer beware.

I have seen pictures of welded parts and chassis repairs on this website which the builder might find acceptable and would seem to hold the parts together that other builders might find less than impressive.

The level of the standard of build varies. If during inspection a car shows careless over-spray, badly ground down pigeon sh*t welds, damaged screw / bolt heads, loose or badly tied wiring, poor hoses, uncared for engine then unless it was very cheap and for parts only or for a strip down and rebuild it would not be conscionable.

There is a real danger that a badly built car (not subject to IFA) is sold onto an unsuspecting person, which due to the negligence of the builder, causes a serious accident, with the possibility that ALL altered vehicles will require an IFA....

I think we owe it to everyone to build the best car we can and if in any doubt get a professional in.

micha, I'm assuming that you are interested in Sammio vehicles and have a genuine reason for your postings, the reason for which I am unclear. If you are simply being misunderstood then I apologise, but if you are posting simply to inflame or cause trouble then you are being as naive as three uninvited girls in a Cathedral broadcasting a an anti-government song against an ex-KGB thug who happens to be the most powerful person in the country residing not more than 500 metres away, not sure you (or they) really thought this through.

[BazMason]

Micha, the points you raise about poor (in your opinion) workmanship is evident in all forms of motoring not just in Sammio/kit car ownership. The first car I ever bought was an MG Midget which looked ok on first appearance and even drove and sounded great, but it still had some major chassis faults which we not immediately apparent on roadside inspection. I have since owned a few Italian motors which although more modern were all bought second hand and I was fully aware that there may be stuff that needs sorting out even if the previous owner has stated that everything had been 'sorted'. Classic cars, of which the Sammio range are based on are, in the main, owned and repaired by enthusiastic amateurs and hobbyists this is one of the reasons why cars devalue and it is a major reason why I can afford to drive the cars I do. Look at the price of classics which are documented as being fully restored by a professional garage and those which are not.

I do not understand why your mate bought the car if he was so concerned about overspray indicating shoddy workmanship etc. He sounds like he knows at least a bit about cars so surely the old adage of following gut instinct should have applied?

What these cars enable is the ability to build a car to a standard that you are happy to drive. The forum provides an information resource where more experienced engineers are able to provide advice and in some cases their time to help out when problems arise or a task is beyond a builders skill-set. By having a build dairy/thread it also gives any prospective buyers the ability to look through and see the standard of build as it progresses. However, without doubt the best way to go about having one of these cars is to build it yourself to your own standards.

Constantly talking the marque down suggests that you have some sort of agenda against the company or individual.

(Just to add, I have no attachment to the company or any of its' products)

[mulberry]

MICHA

have you ever built a car in your life.... I DOUBT IT....

has your friend got the skills to build a car......I DOUBT IT....

alot of time and money and effort was spent on that car YOU ARE A COMPLETE ..ARSE..

WITH ONLY NEGATIVE COMMENTS

[Nike55]

'...alot of time and money and effort was spent on that car....'

Clearly something is amiss. Name calling aside, if a lot of time, money and effort was spent on the car in question, which 'micha' indicates is less than satisfactory, and if the build standards are alleged to be so bad (which must have been obvious) then why buy? Most of the faults mentioned were there
seen.

Even a layman would suspect that over-spray etc might point to a different set of build standards than that engendered by a factory supplied part built kit. For the most part these cars are 'amateur' built (ex-aero engineers excepted). It is the buyers responsibility to ensure that they are getting what they pay for, while the seller (who is possibly also the builder) has obligations to ensure the legality of the vehicle and the safety of the purchaser.

Some would also (rightly) argue that the seller/builder has a moral and ethical duty to point out any known faults, areas of concern and possible mechanical failure points, especially to a layman who may not appreciate the foibles of a fifty/sixty year old design and early generation brakes, suspension and steering, let alone greasing bearings regularly or ensuring the safety/security of wire wheels and their splined converters.

Of course it is possible to give a notional value to the completed builds on the website based on the build blog, i.r.o. the expertise and knowledge shown, general build quality and finish and engine size and specification.

However I suspect that there is indeed a hidden agenda to attack the marque, its designer and its builders for reasons, perhaps, known only to 'micha'.

[Psycho pops]

Originally Posted by micha

...my comments should give others some ideas how those cars are built, or what you will expect.

Your comments are your views, how these cars could be built, how can you blanket every build with this statement.

Perhaps your real meaning is lost in translation, I hope...

[davecymru]

Originally Posted by micha

i´m the only one highlighting other people´s mistakes).

I'm sorry matey, i've given you the benefit of the doubt so far and i've even gone so far as sort-of defending your forum posting style to others in case we were just misinterpreting you, but it's the sentiment you're outlining in this statement that get's everyone's goat!

We all make mistakes and on here we all comment all the time on each others builds and i'm certainly the biggest critic of my own car. But what you have been doing is not just pointing out peoples mistakes, but just being plain rude!

Originally Posted by micha

the lights on the car work...but: 2 stage switch for side and driving light: stage 1: zero light, stage 2: side and driving light. stalk on steering column which operates high beam: position high beam = driving lightsare ON, position driving lights=side lights only...and everyhting with a valid MOT.....

My lights are correct as per the service manual and haynes manual description and they work as follows:

2 stage switch, that is actually a 1 stage switch that turns them, on/off
Then the column stalk operates as follows:

• up - sides
• middle - main
• down - driving.

Trying to decypher what you have written, seems to fit with this?

And if there are ways of selecting all of the different settings (which i think you are saying despite being confused about how they work) then what has this got to do with the MOT?

Originally Posted by micha

after further investigations the engine seems to be dead....low on compression, carb worn out

PLEASE stop over exaggerating! Dead=dead i.e. doesn't work at all.

What you describe is just an old engine by the sounds of things that may benefit by more money being thrown at it?

Originally Posted by micha

@mulberry: i appreciate that you spent a lot of time and money in that car....and it looks like you started in the right way...but the last finish in nearly every area of the car failed.

HOW DARE YOU make such a rude and impolite statement on what is one of the friendliest and closest forums i've ever had the privilege to be part of!!

As others have said, after we've seen you build a car or some of the cars you've built then we'll take your "opinion" <- NOTE: most of what you state is opinion rather than fact! a bit more seriously.
But even then, there is no excuse whatsoever to be so rude and demeaning in commenting on others work!

I REALLY hope that we are misinterpreting what you are saying, or that you're not coming across as intended in writing and i look forward to meeting you one day and comparing cars, but in the meantime please can you just try and be a bit more positive and considerate to others as at the moment you're just winding everyone up!

Dave

[Paul L]

On another forum I use the traditional advice is not to feed the troll.

But just this once, I'll bite...

Originally Posted by micha

... i´m critisizing not in the politest way...

micha - And that quite simply is the point.

Originally Posted by micha

... also i do not need to prove how good my, and my mates skills are nor we need to reproduce ourselves with pictures on the web ...

Then why go out of your way to prove how bad everyone else is?

Or is this part of a wider campaign to fix all that is wrong with the internet?

You know full well this has nothing to do with you being a " forum nobody".

But if you post like a troll, react like a troll & insult like a troll...

Then to the casual observer you are in fact a ...





If the way things are done on this forum offends you so deeply, simply ignore it.

We'll just muddle along and do the best we can and take the risk of missing out on your help.

Cheers, Paul.

[GazDavies]

Originally Posted by micha

both auctions, ended yesterday have reach almost the same price...slightly over 4k...and the metallic red one is far, far, far better in condition than the red one.

Do you remember writing this Micha? I have not been able to take a word you have written since this post seriously. You judged the condition of two cars based on a few photo's of each one and it now seems to have backfired on you.

Your doom and gloom posts used to annoy me but I now see some comedy value in your writing and the way that you constantly contradict yourself. I now see you in the same light as a monty python movie, rarely factually correct, a bit silly and if viewed without a sense of humour, could be considered offensive however as soon as you understand that its just a bit of fun, its hilarious. Just remember, You are not the messiah........