Spitfires ?

lancelot link · #1 9th October 2011, 17:30

I get asked a lot about the compatibility of the Spitfire with our Spyder bodies...I have to always disappoint the enquirer when I explain that a shorter wheelbase , no outriggers and hence rear axle tie bar issues , make it impossible without loads of work to fit the kit to a Spitty ( we have done it once )

There are however a lot of Spits about - they made them for about 7 or 8 years longer than the Herald / Vitesse and they are mechanically superior to the Herald.

The question is ....do I take our existing Sammio Spyder body and tweak it to fit a Spit?

We would need to shorten the body slightly , move the cockpit back a bit and re-design the bonnet as the Lancia style is just too long looking for a shorter main body ....the German bonnet could be anglo-fied to work , ie , 7'' headlights , oval grille opening etc.

I know there are lurkers on here as well as regulars and would value your imput - bit of market research if you like !

I think it could work if tackled correctly , ie. choose a body style to suit the shorter wheelbase ( a stock 550 is actually shorter than a Spitfire , so its workable )
A frame with outriggers similar to our Chevaux one would sort the chassis problems...

tooslow · #2 9th October 2011, 17:58

As one of the Lurkers around here, I think the Spit woulld be a good base car,
For me I prefer the Sammio with the German Bonnet and Two Humps (Merc Style) I would have one but for the fact I am in Grand Cayman at the moment, but I am moving to India in the new year and they have the Standard Heralds (SAME) and the Standard Gazel (A four door Herald with a live axle from a Dolomite or Toledo (I think) to cope with the Indian roads built in India) then I will order one.
Any way back on topic

How about going back in time a bit further and do something on the lines of a Type 48 Corsa Spyder from Fiorano, not copy them but something from that era, open cockpit, open wheels, out side exhaust GT6 based, Straight 6 Hmmmm nice.

Just my thoughts

Martin

Roadster · #3 9th October 2011, 18:16

I think the aston bonnet from the sancton 3 spyder would fit the spitfire you could keep the rear from the spyder

jmc14 · #4 9th October 2011, 18:40

Sorry to hijack the thread. Don't know about the Spitfire, But, Gary, besides widening the body how do you see the Sammio body lining up with the Miata drivetrain. Thanks for any input. John

Patton · #5 9th October 2011, 19:10

I've been thinking about spitfire based Sammio with the early German bonnett and 7" lights (60's lotus elise style, coventry climax engines) pre elan talking of which, not sure about the wheel base but you can get new Elan chassis which is just a central back bone it's pricey and would require SVA/IVA Lotus hung the body on it with doors and unreliable pop up h/lights just a musing of mine.
Back to topic since my brush with me dickie ticker I intend to just do stuff including hillclimbs sprints and track days with something classy looking and different ooh yeer a short wheel base Sammio 1300 (tuned) maybe retain part of the spitfire floor pan. Exsisting hand brake and seat mountings or a folded and riveted zintex floor....... mmmm PAT

Patton · #6 9th October 2011, 19:14

The Elan used triumph and ford bits a fair few still about, I could talk about this for ages thinking of options all the time I'll shut up now wheres me coat...PAT

tooslow · #7 10th October 2011, 17:28

I am board at work today, it is just about lunch time here so I was thinking about this topic and other cars that could be based on a Spitfire and one of these cars is a .....

Lotus 11 style car, semi covered front and rear wheels, wheelbase is just a couple of inches out same as length and width.
I know westfield make one but think of the costs with that one.
Just think painted BRG with yellow nose, screeming little engine.

Martin

tooslow · #8 10th October 2011, 21:43

Me again,
I'll just leave this here for you all, it's the silver car half way down the page
I go now
http://pistonheads.co.uk/xforums/top...+or+Fake&mid=0

Sammio Builder · #9 10th October 2011, 23:27

Hi Martin,

I do like that Silver car......!

I also like the idea of a Spitfire based car Gary, I really think it would sell very well.

Trevor.
http://www.sammiospyder.blogspot.com/

Roadster · #10 11th October 2011, 04:32

i like that silver car too
It has a similar look to my roadster project

Psycho pops · #11 11th October 2011, 06:44

If onlyI could get my interior to that red car standard, I fear it would cost more than my whole project....

Mister Towed · #12 11th October 2011, 07:40

Nice car, I particularly like the silver paint with red interior combination.

I still prefer the look of the Sammio though. I reckon Gary's captured a more authentic period feel while the silver car, extremely well executed though it is, strikes me as more like something BMW or Koenigsegg (whatever) would build today.

Spitfire based Sammio with a full windscreen, doors and folding hood sounds like it would sell well at the right price though...

lancelot link · #13 11th October 2011, 09:15

Thanks for the comments - the silver car islovely , truly stunning ....screen is a bit Spitfirey too !!

Not sure that I want a full restyle project though....I have very nearly financially crippled myself doing the 2 that I am on ...all hopes of a profit this year disappeared months ago , we are probably losing money until those 2 kits are ready to go...Porsche is done , just the goliath that needs finishing...

I will probably do something that still says SAMMIO , bonnet and cockpit changes but not much else...

Psycho pops · #14 11th October 2011, 10:19

With the Sammio the immediate appeal for me was the styling and yet simplistic build, lack of doors, boot etc just add to the ease cost and speed of build. This car has come a long way in the past 12 months, I think you have found your niche market and if you stray too far from this then the competition becomes fierce, I would imagine stretching yourself too far with too many ideas would be easy and restraint while you establish what you have is the best way. If a Sammio altered to fit a Spitfire isn't too hard in terms of developement then yes I can see the market, many of the minor changes us Herald, Vitesse builders make are allready incorporated in the Spitfire ( Fuel tank swing spring , anti roll bar) so a sound idea - go for it.
Psycho pops

garyh · #15 11th October 2011, 11:08

all i would look into is a long term donor i.e mazda mx5, i do feel this is the way ahead, make the leap for the long term?

I would say a roof, doors and windscreen... but once i have built my sportscar i won't take it out in the rain anyway!

davecymru · #16 11th October 2011, 14:50

The reason i went for the Spyder kit in the first place is exactly what has already been said, it's simplicity and flexibility.

I wanted a kit where i could do as much or as little as i liked and i could spend as much or as little as i liked on each task, rather than just opting for a "car in a box".

I think that your kits are targeted at a specific market (the more Heath Robinson type!) and right from 1st contact you are open and honest with what we are getting for the price at which we are getting it and it's that approach i would say you need to build on.

The switch to the Spitfire goes with this approach, although as with the Herald/Vitesse you are still going to end up with a quite small pool of donor vehicles.

Now if you could only find a way to panel strip an MX5 without altering the "chassis", possibly add a small frame to make up for the removed doors and to support a Spyder style body, in a similar way to the *errari 355/360 replicas (i've been thinking about this recently as i near the end of my build!),then you and Mike will really have your work cut out. Not that you're exactly slacking atm!

jmc14 · #17 11th October 2011, 15:08

I believe that the MX5 has the biggest potential for long term sales. I am getting ready to strip my MX5 in anticipation of receiving my widened body. I have given a lot of thought as to the best way to use the MX5 parts. On my other cars I have built a dedicated space frame and bolted in suspension-drivetrain. (Corvette parts for my other cars). This creates the lightest, stiffest, and best performance car possible. But, this is for the "race car" crowd and I am not sure that this is the best way to go with the Sammio.

So, I have been thinking of how I can cut away as much of the MX5 and designing a a bolt/weld in superstructure that will allow pretty much everything to remain MX5. I think that this can be accomplished and actually improve the stiffness of the MX5. I see the dash being cut out but leaving the firewall. Moving the MX5 gauge cluster mount in the center, in the fiberglass dash which could be molded as part of the body.

The result would not be the ultimate "track toy". Put, I think it would be possible to reduce the weight to around 1600lbs. I believe the car, at least in the US, would be registered as a MX5. This approach would leave the firewall, rear bulk head, floor, seats, and fuel tank in the stock location and would eliminate fabricating them.

Just ideas, but this is what I am thinking.

Of course it would be possible to offer this option and then offer a second, dedicated frame option as well. I do believe the MX5 is the future, at least in the US.

Roadster · #18 11th October 2011, 18:48

Ok I admit im slightly biased here because i am in the middle of an mx5 build but here is my two penneths.
I agree with the views above and the mx5 front end unbolts leaving minimal metal work left.
I chose to remove 2 small non structural pieces to give clearance for my headlights. At the rear it is slightly different because the wings do not unbolt .
However there is a clear internal monocoque which i left alone but the final few inches of the single skin rear arch i trimmed to allow the shape of the rear body to fit.

If two mouldings were made - a one piece bonnet and a rear section to bond into place on the rear it would be easy to transform the mx5.

Mines a little harder because i am building the two halfs but Garrys body parts were a good start.
There are lots of classic looking parts for mk1 mx5's and the doner cars are cheap.

Im off my soap box now
ps im curious what Garrys mx5 is under going now he has lent it to another kitcar company hmmmmmmm they do body conversions

lancelot link · #19 10th December 2011, 14:37

I have just bought this .....

Hopefully coming back next week....

That gives me something to do before Stoneleigh , doesn't it !

I am getting so many Spit enquiries - I had to take the plunge !

I can borrow a bulkhead from Southern Triumph near me , so same concept as the original Sammio....... frame will look like a combination of the existing Sammio Spyder frame and the Chevaux version...

I did make a deal with myself to not develop anything new for a while , but its not really a full on development , we are 70% there with the Sammio body anyway....

Please don't tell Mike !!!

lancelot link · #20 10th December 2011, 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadster

I'm curious what Garys mx5 is under going now he has lent it to another kitcar company hmmmmmmm they do body conversions

A sort of 60's 250 GTO style car - very definite GTO styling but tweaked a bit to fit the very different Mazda configuration....usually built on Datsun 240z's but they are actually getting collectable nowadays !

saw it under way last week and was certainly looking the part....