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Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Marlin 5exi builds

Marlin 5exi builds Calling all you sexi builders....sorry 5exi builders, show us your progress.

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  #1  
Old 14th September 2008, 22:10
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alackofspeed alackofspeed is offline
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Default The "does my car need an mot" debate...

I remember a while back, the question of whether MOT certificates are needed on cars registered within the last 3 years, but on an age-related, or q-plate.

Here's a brief account of my experience earlier in the week:

Sunday:

I got pulled for "pulling away too quickly" (the comments from the officer that went with that statement were desperately childish and poorly considered...), and for "not having an mot" on a car brand new at first registration in Feb' 2008!

Firstly, and just for the record, I used 4000rpm of a 8600 rev range, and about 1/2 throttle (if that). In jist I told the officer he was incorrect, and I was not going to entertain his comment. The line of conversation didn't go far!

Anyhow, the officer then went on to say that the main reason for pulling me over, was because the car I was driving (5EXI) didn't have a current MOT certificate. I explained the situation (SVA'd 2008... etc..), and the officer even called a "traffic" colleague for clarification. The traffic officer was equally clueless (sad state of affairs really), and thus I was issued a green ticket for failing to produce a document I don't need, and..... I was read my rights, for "breaking the law"!!

Naturally I was a bit miffed, and my dislike of the "law enforcers" further bolstered. [If anyone on the board is a Police officer, then I will clarify that I can only base my feelings on the Police offiers I have met, and none have filled me with any belief that intelligence is a prerequisite of the job! Feel free to demonstrate otherwise.]

Monday:

I went to the nominated police station, armed with my paperwork... and to cut a long story short, the officer behind the desk appologised for her colleague's ineptitude, and confirmed that the PNC (Police National Computer) showed my car as being totally road legal, and not requiring a MOT until 2011.

So..... in summary, according to the Police (well not the remarkably dippy one I first encountered), no MOT is needed on a kit car until 3 years after the date of first registration.
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  #2  
Old 15th September 2008, 05:26
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Hi John.

I went to the lengths of asking the DVLA. Equally a bit wooley. I've sent you an email. But saying the same thing. Basilally not needing an MOT for 3 years.

Then got my tax reminder through. No need for MOT. Renewed online all ok and checks they do passed. With no MOT.

I think it will depend on what people fill out on the forms. Some might fill out the section, "date of manufacture" as the donors year, not the year I intended the car built and going for it's first SVA.
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Old 17th September 2008, 19:10
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In my case where the car was given an 'age related plate, the DVLA have advised me that the SVA certificate is valid as an MoT substitute for 12 months, from the date of registration not the SVA test date by the way.

I will need to MoT my Hood after 12 months.

I formally ask the question of the DVLA after my local MoT tester garage owner who I know well thought I needed an MoT as well.


So do we infer based on collective experence that a 'NEW' registered kit, like a new car, is MoT exempt for 3 years and an 'age related' kit needs an MoT after 12 months?


eaa53
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  #4  
Old 17th September 2008, 19:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaa53 View Post
So do we infer based on collective experence that a 'NEW' registered kit, like a new car, is MoT exempt for 3 years and an 'age related' kit needs an MoT after 12 months?

eaa53
In my case (new plate) they told me no mot for 3 years as it's new car.

But she did say if it was age related plate it would need an mot in a years time as the car would be built with used parts!

But I guess it's different for everyone it seems
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  #5  
Old 17th September 2008, 21:08
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I don't think the DVLA know!

I personal think you could get two age related kit cars, registered March 2008, for example. One needing an MOT. The other not.

And as for MOT valid from date. That's an interesting one as well John (EAA53). Your correct and the date of first registration is from the SVA pass date. Not the date of completion on your SVA form.
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  #6  
Old 3rd October 2008, 20:00
KrazyKen KrazyKen is offline
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Interesting one this. My Marlin 5EXi was built by Which Kit on an age related plate and I have always MoT'd it every year.

By contrast my good friend Dave Bence has an Onyx Firefox also on an age related plate and he has been told it does not need an MoT for 3 years and gets a tax disc every year without any problems.

I tend to agree with limpabit in that the DVLA really are not sure themselves.
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  #7  
Old 3rd October 2008, 21:02
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The Sportster is 1 year old now on an F plate I got an MOT before SVA which was updated after I passed SVA to show the cars proper details.

I've had it MOT last week. It was a good thing as it picked up a fault on one of the handbrake cables that I probably won't have noticed otherwise.

My feeling was as it's a bit of a grey area so I'd rather do it than not. And its proven worth while picking up an issue with the car (not a major one as I never use the hand brake, but still!)

In both cases it's been peace of mind that a 3rd party has checked over the car.
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  #8  
Old 10th October 2012, 09:11
martinwinlow martinwinlow is offline
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alackofspeed

Ah, yes. I fear you may have failed 'the attitude test'. Unfortunately, if you went into this interaction with a police officer from, by your own admission, an 'anti' perspective, the likelihood of you coming out the other end feeling warm and fuzzy towards the constable and police in general is small.

Next time, try imagining that the policeman is your driving instructor who isn't interested in getting you into trouble (do people really imagine police officers enjoy doing all that paperwork?), but is just interested in saving you (and other road users) from yourself and hoping to see you hang up your driving spurs one day with 60+ years of blameless driving behind you.

As for the rights and wrongs of your 'pulling away too fast', I've always applied the simple test (and I have asked this question regularly) "If you did that on your driving test, would you have passed?". It sounds like your 'wrong doing' was marginal but it was probably just an excuse to stop you. And bear in mind, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that the officer was just interested in your kit car and wanted a chat about it, but things spiralled out of hand.

As for the MOT question, my understanding is that if you have based your kit on the major components of an existing vehicle which is at least 3 years old already, then your kit will need an annual MOT. If not and you fill in the registration forms correctly and the kit's V5 shows 'new' on whatever (recent) date, then you get the 3 years grace.

But, yes, I suspect the real answer is that 95% of DVLA staff don't know.
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  #9  
Old 10th October 2012, 09:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinwinlow View Post

As for the MOT question, my understanding is that if you have based your kit on the major components of an existing vehicle which is at least 3 years old already, then your kit will need an annual MOT.
No, I'm sorry but you are misinformed and that is incorrect.
A kit car submitted to an IVA test does not need an MOT until three years after registration, regardless of the age of the donor parts.

However, many kit builders do take their cars for MOT prior to the IVA test as its a cheapish way of having it checked and testing things like emission and brakes that is difficult to do at home.

If you do decided to take this option, then an MOT is required each year.

Of course, if you were referring to a simple body conversion, then you are right it needs an MOT based on the donor car under the bodywork.
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  #10  
Old 10th October 2012, 10:51
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Hi, Sorry - we are talking at cross purposes (I think). The original question, as I understood it, was "Do newly registered and IVA'ed kit cars need an annual MOT". We are in agreement that one does not need an MOT to attend an IVA - apparently. It would be nice to see this on the DVLA's web site somewhere and avoid all this confusion. But where would be the fun in that?
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  #11  
Old 11th October 2012, 14:38
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It does seem a very grey area depending on who you speak to in the DVLA with kit cars. For example. I was given a letter stating as long as I had insurance and DVLA letter authorising me driving to get the car inspection for registration, I could drive it there. Others have had a different answer and needed to trailer car there.

As for the MOT. I contacted VOSA to confirm. Car was age related using more than 3 donor parts. It was for SVA, so might have changed. Ths was the response:
"Thank you for your e-mail. I've checked the vehicle on the DVLA database
and the date of manufacture and registration are both listed as 12-07-2007.
I can't find any evidence of previous use anywhere else and though the
vehicle does have an earlier registration identifier the DVLA database has
an SVA date of 12-07-2007 which is taken as the date of manufacture.

Under section 47(2a) of the Road traffic act 1988 (as amended) a vehicle
is required to have a valid Mot certificate after 3 years from the date of
first registration.

From the evidence available I would conclude that this vehicle does not
require an Mot certificate until three years after the date of its first
registration i.e. starting on 12-07-10.

I would add that this is an interpretation of the regulation using the
available information and is not to be taken as an authorisation or
endorsement to use the vehicle. It is the vehicle user's responsibility to
ensure that his/her vehicle complies with all current regulations when used
on public roads."
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  #12  
Old 11th October 2012, 18:30
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Holy thread resurrection.

In very quick summary:

1- The officer I encountered was sadly a dim-whitted individual, who in absolute truth wasted my time due to his ignorance and lack of knowledge. His colleague was also sadly ignorant and apparently unable to consult the readily available database to confirm my car's legality

2 - There was no interest in my car, else he wouldn't have been the one being borderline agressive in his tone when first addressing me. I was absolutely polite in my delivery to the policeman, but assertive and factual.

3 - "Would I have driven like I did whilst on my driving test?" For what it's worth, I would - cold engine, not pushing hard at all, and driven within the speed limit.

4 - MW if you are a police officer or a relative of one, or have strong connections with police officers, then I accept that there are variations in the quality of individual in all jobs in society. Sadly I encoutered 2 professionally sub-standard individuals on this occasion.
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Old 18th October 2012, 17:35
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Perhaps I am a little naive here but I though in these sitautions the police such as this would ask for a PNC check (maybe I have watched to many episodes of the Bill) at the road side to clarify the sitauation rather than wasting the time of memebers of the motring public.

I would be looking for a formal appology from the officers seniors and a confirmation that they and indeed others are trained accordingly to avoid another example of this.
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Old 19th October 2012, 06:40
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Its a very grey area, as when my car came up to 1 year old I was not sure if I would need and MOT or not. So I contacted DLVA who, after a long while said they didn't know and transferred me to VOSA, who after a long while said they didn't know, but could transfer me to DVLA.

So I went to the loacl nick and asked Plod behind the desk, who took me off to the traffic division. The Sgt. Plod said he didn't know, so he phoned DLVA, who said they didn't know ...... you get the picture

In the end I did nothing, the car re-taxed without the need for a MOT, and it wasn't until it was 3 years old did the reminder for the tax say explicitly that an MOT was required.

So the only one who seems to know the rules is the computer at DVLA, and its not telling anybody.
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Old 19th October 2012, 20:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDMC001 View Post
Perhaps I am a little naive here but I though in these sitautions the police such as this would ask for a PNC check (maybe I have watched to many episodes of the Bill) at the road side to clarify the sitauation rather than wasting the time of memebers of the motring public.

I would be looking for a formal appology from the officers seniors and a confirmation that they and indeed others are trained accordingly to avoid another example of this.
The claim of the policeman was that he'd requested a PNC check and it had come back that my car did not have a MOT and that it was needed. I set about explaining the situation - SVA, why the car has an age-related plate - with the result the question was forwarded to a traffic officer. The traf-pol had no understanding of SVA and kit-cars, thus I was awarded a 7-day wonder.

The car's details were PNC checked again (or perhaps for the first time, if you're cynical) when I went to tender my car's and my documents, and the police officer at the station confirmed no need for a MOT according to the computer.
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