Tribute SWB 250 Kits – An Outsider’s View…

[Paul L]

Rather than hi-jack ericholm’s thread, here is my two cents worth.
( Which, unfortunately, has turned into a bit of a sermon. - So my apologies in advance. )

The price of the 250 kit appears to be valued, by some, as little more than the cost of the fibreglass itself.

Whereas, in my option, its true value is linked to the outstanding talents of Chris and Dan.

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In the art world, you could question why some paint splashed about on a canvas was worth £75m in 2006.

Jackson Pollock's No. 5



Or why a few patches of colour, that even a child could draw, was worth £53m in 2012.

Mark Rothko's Orange, red, yellow



You could, but quite frankly you would be missing the point completely.

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The value of Chris & Dan’s work must be seen in the context of both their vision and technical ability.

Mocking up the ”Nip, tuck, stretch etc........” required on Photoshop is one thing.



But turning that into a life size functioning kit some ten months later is something else entirely.



The sheer scale of the task involved was clearly documented on this forum, yet it is still undervalued.

Instead, the small faults (and they are small) are highlighted as though the overall product is not still a work of genius.

So, yes, “the doer of deeds could have done them better”.

But…

“The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly;
who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming;
but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause;
who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly.”

In my view, Tribute did the best job they could under the circumstances and the final kit is what it is.

All suggestions about how to change/upgrade/fix this kit require a further investment of time and money to do.

And there seems to be some confusion on here about the difference between being busy and being wealthy.

Tribute is basically two men in a (big) shed, it is not Ford, or Aston Martin with a multi-million R&D budget.

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The key fact for me is that the time and money required to turn an ‘imperfect’ Tribute kit into this.



Is still a mere fraction of what it would cost to own an original.



It is also significantly less than what you would have to pay for a “better” kit, such as the Mirage 250 GT.



So if you don’t think the SWB 250 kit represents good value for money, then simply don’t buy it.

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I’ve learnt the hard way that the value of a kit (to me at least) is linked to the time required to get it on the road.

I can barely keep this list of Tribute Z3 based kits up to date, as they get turned around so quickly, which has to be a good thing.

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...?t=4623&page=2

Note:
The useful links thread was my way of saying thank you to Chris and Dan for sharing their kit developments.
( As my car would never have got on the road without picking up so many fibreglass tips & ideas from them. )

So, rather selfishly, I want this forum to be somewhere that Chris and Dan can look forward to posting on.

I’d love to hear more about the Tribute ‘Auburn’ kit that appeared on Ebay.
( Plus Chris’s ‘Mexico’ project, Dan’s 275 model and zagmad’s constantly changing Alfa project. )



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Anyway, that is more than enough preaching from me and I’ll end on a more lighter note below.

Cheers, Paul.

The SWB 250 bonnet cut - As shared by Jaguartvr.



However, to paraphrase Crocodile Dundee:

“That’s not a bonnet cut… THIS is a bonnet cut!”

Swifty


Viatron


Paul L

[hurnleft]

I've not said much on here lately but here's my thoughts.

Before I bought mine (the first one they put together as Geoff was waiting for a different colour gel coat than originally planned) I read, reread and read again Geoff's thread showing the amazing amount of work that Chris and Dan had done to get to a product ready for sale. I went at looked at their work and knew exactly what I was buying.

I thought it looked fantastic then and I've never changed my mind. The price and finish was just what I wanted as I could finish it off to a standard and cost of my choosing, in the time frame I chose, whilst driving it all the time.

I have had the car studied by a couple of local guys who used to build and paint aluminium 250swb bodies to use with adapted 330 Ferrari running gear. They were very impressed with the concept of the car, it's construction and the finish I took it to.

Had the kit been to a 'virtually ready for paint" standard, I would not have bought one as it would have been out of my chosen price range and I would not have been as comfortable with making any alterations to it.

As I've already said in my thread, it's up for sale as it's now far too nice for me and I probably should have left it in basic, as bought, in gelcoat condition, just altering the wheels and suspension, as this is the point where I enjoyed it most, thrashing it around and not worrying about the possibility of stone chips.

You pays your money and you takes your choice. I don't have anything bad to say about the company or the product.

Bob.

[Jaguartvr]

It does seem to be the owners and builders that are more than happy with the product.
Most of the negative posts about the quality and finish seem to come from people who are not building one, or even not building a car at all.
As Bob says, the final finish is down to the builder and if they had been more expensive I wouldn't have been able to build one.

The build thread on the development had me glued to the screen impatiently awaiting the next instalment, I do miss the fact that Tribute don't have anything on the go at the moment but if they just develop cars and don't concentrate on making and selling them then they won't be around for long. All a question of balance and they seem to have it just about right.

[smash]

Indeed...and the cost of that finish has been set at £24k.

Just because someone didn't build a car - or even own one - doesn't mean they don't have an eye for detail (sometimes a lot better than the owner/builders) or the ability to suggest improvements.

There's a distinct lack of honesty round here - what is said off the forum is massively contradictory to what people will say on it. You know exactly what I'm saying here.

Carry on swooning

[Lucky@LeMans]

To ad my point of view, I think the finished Tribute kits that have been mentioned on this forum and completed cars I have seen in the flesh have all been completed to a very high standard and look great.
Having built the good, the bad and the ugly regarding kit cars and classics over the last 25 years I can say that I've seen it all. My only niggles as a potential customer have been documented by builders of the 250SWB models having troubles with fit and finish of what is quite an expensive panel kit at the end of the day. Really theses small issues should have been ironed out early on.
I'm holding out for the 275 convertible kit, I only hope these same issues are dealt with and not replicated onto the new car.

[hurnleft]

Originally Posted by smash

Indeed...and the cost of that finish has been set at £24k.

All sales start with an asking price. it's actually worth the best offer/ highest bid I get for it.
I might get around to finding out next week as a car I've liked for a long time has popped up for sale and a supply of cash will be needed so the 250 could be available on Ebay.

[Jaguartvr]

It looks to me as if the 275 is using the 250 door skins. Hopefully they will be rejigged to sort out the previous problems and fit perfectly with the new 275 clam. The new 275 doors could then be added to the 250 kit and the 250 bonnet would need just minor adjustment to the mould.
I would like to see different moulds for the 250 coupe and convertible doors.

[Mitchelkitman]

Just to add my 2p worth...... Yes, there are a couple of 'fit issues', but the prices are keen, and Tribute have always displayed the cars "in the raw" at the shows.Unlike some kit manufacturers, you get what you see, you aren't paying 'instalments' in the form of kit1, then add kit2 etc. There are 'issues' with every kit car on the market if you look closely, indeed there are 'issues' with production cars despite all the millions of pounds worth of investment. As long as you view any kit as a labour of love (why do it otherwise), then it's part of the achievement. Unless you can do better (from scratch ie with just a bucket of resin + some matting) then there is really no criticism to be made!
Just my opinion, others may not agree.

[Lucky@LeMans]

The fit and finish issues are indeed relatively small which is why they should have been addressed early on. The price of the kit isn't an insignificant amount. If I spend a couple of months worth of my hard earned wages on a GRP panel set I would expect said parts to go together without getting the angle grinder and P60 out because of manufacturing errors! If you bought a £500 bath tub from B&Q and the plug hole was in the side rather than on the bottom would you really be happy to put it right or would you be a little narked ?

[Mitchelkitman]

Originally Posted by Lucky@LeMans

The fit and finish issues are indeed relatively small which is why they should have been addressed early on. The price of the kit isn't an insignificant amount. If I spend a couple of months worth of my hard earned wages on a GRP panel set I would expect said parts to go together without getting the angle grinder and P60 out because of manufacturing errors! If you bought a £500 bath tub from B&Q and the plug hole was in the side rather than on the bottom would you really be happy to put it right or would you be a little narked ?

An interesting analogy (as I'm a plumber, and can spot issues with baths that others may not), so given that you've built a few kits and classics did you not expect some issues? I'm not trying to be confrontational, just interested to know. If I saw the hole in the side of a B&Q bath I'd not buy it, if I saw it was rather too thin (as they can be from lots of suppliers) I'd not go for it, but others may not see the problem.

[Lucky@LeMans]

Originally Posted by Mitchelkitman

An interesting analogy (as I'm a plumber, and can spot issues with baths that others may not), so given that you've built a few kits and classics did you not expect some issues? I'm not trying to be confrontational, just interested to know. If I saw the hole in the side of a B&Q bath I'd not buy it, if I saw it was rather too thin (as they can be from lots of suppliers) I'd not go for it, but others may not see the problem.

So taking this to its conclusion and before I get accused of being sarcastic;

Turns out there is a helpful B&Q forum where quite a few people have had the same problem so you don't feel quite so bad. Having read all the threads there is an easy fix to the plug hole being in the wrong place. All you need to do is drill a hole in the bottom of the tub and glass over the hole in the side, a quick skim of filler and you're all done. Its a shame that having skimmed over the hole you have lost the integrity of the avocado gel coat so you now have got to paint the complete bath tub. The consensus is that you only spent £500 on the bath and in the grand scheme of redoing your entire bathroom that's a drop in the ocean. Your bathroom is now finished and the neighbours are really impressed. You now return to the forum and thank everyone for their help and advice.

[Jaguartvr]

I would suggest a buy it now price not an auction.
You only need 1 buyer, look at the price the first DNA commanded. You would have laughed but they are selling at that price and more.

[lancelot link]

Originally Posted by Jaguartvr

I would suggest a buy it now price not an auction.
You only need 1 buyer, look at the price the first DNA commanded. You would have laughed but they are selling at that price and more.

If Tributes or any other similar products started to reach high , high prices ...then there is the distinct possibility that , like DNA , the suppliers might decide the hours of unpaid aggro selling kits isn't worth it !!

[Jaguartvr]

Just make sure you don't mix up the bog and the bath after a skinfull

Another thread down the pan

[Mister Towed]

Dave P and Paul L, I couldn't agree more with your posts above, it's a shame when unnecessarily critical and/or rude comments spoil what is otherwise a massively useful resource for the hobby car builder.

As for Chris and Dan I have nothing but respect for their ability to rapidly develop classic looking cars and get the kits into production and into customers' hands. Having recently spent far longer than intended just making a mould for a bonnet scoop I can tell you that they work miracles in no time at all.

Their kits are sensibly priced and cater for a range of tastes and budgets - who else sells a brand new fibreglass car body (Mistral) for under £800?

They offer more comprehensive kits for under two grand in the MX250, D Type, Z300S and A352, while around another five hundred buys you a Kobra or MRS 200 kit.

At the top end of their comprehensive range you'll pay four thousand pounds for a convertible 250 SWB kit and five thousand for the coupe, which, given that it includes the roll cage and sliding side windows is quite a bargain - start looking at their competition and you'll find that once you start buying all the 'packages' you'll easily blow ten grand on parts alone for a Seven, Speedster or Marlin, and more than double that for anything that looks, sounds or even smells like a Jag.

So, the kits aren't perfect and need some fettling by the customer or their build agent to get them right. But, it's quite possible for the DIY builder to buy a Tribute kit and have a fully finished, painted Mistral on the road for around two thousand pounds, a D Type for less than four thousand or a 250GT SWB Coupe for easily under ten, and the customer built cars on this forum show what can be achieved with what really are budget kits.

Oh, and the panel gaps on Ross Brawn's 250 look a bit iffy while the side vents look like they came from ebay for a fiver inc. delivery from China. Ferrari should be ashamed of themselves...

[swifty]

I think that it's not an issue for problems to be discussed on the forum it's this type of feed back that a business requires to move forward albeit that printed words can sometimes come across a little harsh. I for one have been looking at this rebody for some time now but are holding back to see if the few minor faults are ironed out at the moulding stage, they certainly are not a massive issue however 5k for a body should mean it fits from the beginning without having to take a cutting disc to make it fit.

I am sure tribute are happy with what they have achieved and the examples I've seen in the flesh live up to expectations so hopefully tribute will take on board the few minor issues and develop the mk2 moulds.

[froggyman]

I'll pull the flush on this thread then.

[Paul L]

This will be the last post from me on this, as I appear to be making things worse, rather than better.

I also agree that this sort of debate works better face to face over a beer, rather than in the written word.

So I will just modify Lucky@LeMans bath analogy and call it a day.

You see a beautiful roll top bath at a stately home, but this is effectively unobtainable/ludicrously expensive.
( The Ross Brawn 250 )

An architectural salvage yard can sell you similar original baths, but they too are beyond your financial reach.
( The Mirage 250 )

At which point you find there is an option of buying a cheaper bath from a small supplier & doing some work on it.
You then find there is a bath building forum where others will help you create something you can enjoy.
( Tribute 250 )

Or you can get professional help to take the small supplier’s bath to a whole new level, with a factory standard finish.
( E.g. A Tribute 250 prepped and painted by JeffH )



Given that B&Q has an annual turnover of £3.9 billion & over 25,000 staff, I don’t think it is a fair analogy for two men in a shed.

Cheers, Paul.

[Lucky@LeMans]

My very very last post on this one !

I can sort of see what you are getting at Paul L. You've mentioned all the options in your post above. I love the shape of the 250 SWB and will love the 275 for the same reason when it becomes available. I do admire the work done by Chris and Dan and they have lots of orders on the books.
Because it will only cost around £3995 ( same as the Kaliforina kit ) I will have to accept that the detail might be a little below par and some parts might not fit at all. Its a bit of a shame because I thought that aspect of the kit car business was long gone. The forum provides lots of help and advice so the problems can be addressed.

[WorldClassAccident]

I suggest everyone comes along to the Tribute Owners BBQ to see the actual cars and discuss this over a pint and a hog roast.

Meat and Motors


The Tribute Automotive Owners Club BBQ is definitely on June 10th 2017

There will be just 10 show car places.
There will be room for other people etc but just 10 in the Car Show spaces of honour. Depending how this one goes I might arrange bigger things in the future in other parts of the country but I need this to be a success first.

The lucky people who are quick enough to book their space in the car show will get a free, yes FREE, BBQ Burger. Look at the menu on pub website and you will see these are great burgers with no added donkey meat.

The lucky people who are quick enough to book their space in the car show will get a free, yes FREE, Tribute Automotive t-shirt

The lucky people who are quick enough to book their space in the car show will get free, yes FREE, automatic entry into the public vote for the "Car of the Show" with a keg of beer as the prize!!


I have borrowed this place : http://www.brewhouseandkitchen.com/venue/southampton/



11:00 - 11:30 Meet at the pub
11:30 - 13:00 Drive around Southampton / New Forest with photo stops
13:00 - 15:00 Official BBQ and Hog Roast talking bollocks session
15:00 - ??? Well I plan to stay at the pub and drink my fill, you lot can do what you like :-)