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-   -   Nearside driveshaft (http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6758)

Leadfoot 27th May 2018 12:06

Nearside driveshaft
 
1 Attachment(s)
Having suffered a driveshaft failure coming back from Stoneleigh, I have now repaired the hole in the gearbox and fitted a new driveshaft. My issue is that the tri-bearing on the inner joint is very close to coming out. I can feel the bearing edge through the rubber boot. It will drive I'm sure but it's like the driveshaft is approx. 1.5" too short. I bought the standard nearside driveshaft that would have come from the donor car (1.6k Rover 400 Tourer). I've altered the suspension settings to try and get the angle down so that as it becomes straighter, the more it engages with the inner joint. I'm even thinking of making a new gearbox mount to pull the engine to a greater angle in order to straighten the driveshaft further. Seems a lot of work for a part that should just do its job...

limpabit 31st May 2018 06:21

Never heard of driveshaft problems, with 1.6 K series models only T series.

Clutching at straws. Wonder if the drive shafts are different part numbers from the 400 and 200 series? Know there were changes like clutch system that were different.

I’ll try and have a look on Rimmer Bros after to compare part numbers. What year was your donor?

I know 420 related but driveshaft length problems
http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...ght=Driveshaft

Cees Bakker 31st May 2018 11:41

driveshaft
 
isn't it a problem of old engine/gearbox mounts?
when you push hard, change the engine of position?

limpabit 31st May 2018 12:39

Hmm a little confused.
Had a look on Rimmer Bros web site. 1.6K post 95. It's saying on came in an auto version only. 1.8 was manual.
Pre 95 was Honda.

Leadfoot 31st May 2018 19:49

Driveshaft failure
 
3 Attachment(s)
So today, after patching the gearbox, resetting the geo, making new engine mounts and fitting the new driveshaft, I got 6ft out of the garage and the driveshaft popped out straight away. Arrg!
So I'm left with the following options; buy an off the shelf option (cheaper and preferable), have one custom made (expensive) or modify the existing one (dubious reliability).
The Rimmer Bros site doesn't supply dimensions and they're also expensive.
The replacement I bought is from a 1997 416 Tourer N/S which is the correct donor part.

My resolve is being drained...

peterux 31st May 2018 20:39

Do the old ones have any part numbers stamped on them? It may help find the right replacement.
Also, I guess it's possible that you have been supplied the wrong part?

Leadfoot 31st May 2018 21:18

Driveshaft failure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by peterux (Post 95323)
Do the old ones have any part numbers stamped on them? It may help find the right replacement.
Also, I guess it's possible that you have been supplied the wrong part?

Hi, can't see anything on the original but I did do a side to side comparison of old and new and the length was the same. That's why I couldn't understand today's immediate failure...
The 'original' one I assumed was just worn but in retrospect it was probably too short and that's why it failed as well. A bit stuck at the moment tbh as the part I ordered was as per the original donor.

limpabit 2nd June 2018 21:30

Donít worry plenty of hurt feet kicking the car. Know how you feel.
Let me know year and model of 400. Iíll compare with 200.

Leadfoot 3rd June 2018 09:15

Driveshaft failure
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by limpabit (Post 95356)
Donít worry plenty of hurt feet kicking the car. Know how you feel.
Let me know year and model of 400. Iíll compare with 200.

Hi Limpabit, took the new driveshaft back out and stripped it down on the inner end to transfer this onto the old driveshaft, unfortunately the tri-bearings inner cage height is thicker and has a larger spline diameter than the old one. Thought I caught a break there for a minute but alas no...
I did a length comparison test again with the boots removed and found (as per Peterux's thoughts about the right part being supplied), that the new driveshaft when compressed fully, is 20mm shorter than the old one.
620 VS 640mm.
I did a lot of sanding of the old rusty and pitted CV joint and found a number I can't seem to trace. GKN HSP ?08703 088 CS5 EMA7 96 12 19A. I can't make out the ? (it could be a damage mark, A, P or an R).
The barshaft inner which the tri-bearing assembly slides onto and is secured with a circlip, is a 22 spline and approx. 24.2mm OD. Oddly enough, exactly the same as the input into the gearbox.
For reference, the new driveshaft from J&R Part No. Is DS266. I've e-mailed them about the DS178 to find out the difference.
Btw, as per an earlier thread, the donor model was a Rover 416 Tourer 1997.

Phaeton 4th June 2018 07:10

Do you know somebody else with the same kit, could they measure where their engine is mounted, very remote possibility is that your engine mounts have been mounted too far towards the drivers side?

Leadfoot 4th June 2018 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaeton (Post 95374)
Do you know somebody else with the same kit, could they measure where their engine is mounted, very remote possibility is that your engine mounts have been mounted too far towards the drivers side?

Hi, the pick up points for the engine and gearbox are set by the chassis builder so I have no reason to think it's set too far one way from another. There is 40mm worth of sliding play in the driveshafts, so if the drivers side was say, bang on centre, then anything more than 20mm would have it bump stopping on the gearbox end..? Wheels are central to the bodywork so don't understand why I'm having the short driveshaft issue. I've found a site that shows the driveshaft lengths and it does state that the standard item is 620mm long. So I've just ordered a cheap Rover 25 driveshaft off eBay as this is stated as being 645mm long. We'll see if it fits...
Thanks for responding.

Phaeton 4th June 2018 15:36

Is it a PG1 box?

Leadfoot 4th June 2018 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaeton (Post 95382)
Is it a PG1 box?

No, it's the R65 I believe.

Phaeton 5th June 2018 07:22

Ah okay I have the PG1 in the MGF subframe was going to offer to try to measure but if it's the R65 then it's not going to help, unless that is the issue the mounting is for a PG1 box

Leadfoot 5th June 2018 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaeton (Post 95398)
Ah okay I have the PG1 in the MGF subframe was going to offer to try to measure but if it's the R65 then it's not going to help, unless that is the issue the mounting is for a PG1 box

Thanks for the kind offer of support anyway. Much appreciated.
Don't know what the dimensional differences or mounting points are between the PG1 and R65. It was a thought that if my gearbox had been trashed, I would have considered a swap to a PG1 but mine seems Ok despite the hole it received.
Hopefully, the driveshaft that I've ordered will arrive and be the right length so I can fit it at the weekend :thumb:. We'll see...

bigrich 8th June 2018 21:59

Hi Leon,

I reckon the rover 200 or rover 25 shaft will work for you.

Mine is an R65 gearbox from a 1997 Rover 216, with a Rover 216 driveshaft..no problems with this popping...angle still looks tight but runs OK

Leadfoot 9th June 2018 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigrich (Post 95458)
Hi Leon,

I reckon the rover 200 or rover 25 shaft will work for you.

Mine is an R65 gearbox from a 1997 Rover 216, with a Rover 216 driveshaft..no problems with this popping...angle still looks tight but runs OK

The 645mm long Rover 25 nearside driveshaft fits fine and engages better than the brand new/old one (620mm) that was in. You called it in advance Rich :eusa_hand:


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