donor registration

jeremy · #1 7th May 2012, 20:38

I have a problem....I bought my donor e36 about 8 years ago,was given the manuals,service reciepts etc in the bmw folder....but either i didnt get, or lost the registration/tax book.Now i am near IVA this raises an issue.I know the reg number of the donor, and a search on a car reg check website confirms and matches the car spec, and the engine number matches mine.The check also states the car isn't known to be scrapped, or any other data that is suspicious.If I had a log book, and can match numbers of two major components, I may get a non Q plate.Can I try and obtain one from dvla for a scrapped car which to them isnt scrapped, and if so will I be hit for 8 years non-sorn fines?Any ideas?

peterux · #2 7th May 2012, 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremy

I have a problem....I bought my donor e36 about 8 years ago,was given the manuals,service reciepts etc in the bmw folder....but either i didnt get, or lost the registration/tax book.Now i am near IVA this raises an issue.I know the reg number of the donor, and a search on a car reg check website confirms and matches the car spec, and the engine number matches mine.The check also states the car isn't known to be scrapped, or any other data that is suspicious.If I had a log book, and can match numbers of two major components, I may get a non Q plate.Can I try and obtain one from dvla for a scrapped car which to them isnt scrapped, and if so will I be hit for 8 years non-sorn fines?Any ideas?

Hmmm... Sounds a bit tricky? If it's not registered in your name I'm not sure what you should do.
I think I would ask Paul Jepson for help to avoid getting into trouble with the dvla.
http://nw.rhocar.org/SVA%20&%20reg%20assistance.htm

jeremy · #3 7th May 2012, 21:02

Thanks for that Peter, that sounds like a good option.

timbo · #4 8th May 2012, 07:46

Hi Jeremy
Having been through a similar situation ie not having the V5 for the donor, I found it very difficult to get a non-Q plate (although I got there eventually).

Is it worth contacting the DVLA to find out if you are the registered keeper of the donor? If so, they may supply a replacement V5 which you can then send back to them, informing them that's its scrapped.
If not, perhaps you could explain to them the situation (perhaps mentioning that you intend to build a kit car with parts from said donor) and that you are now the registered keeper and need a new V5. One can't help but wonder that if you are the registered keeper and its not been declared SORN, why they haven't pestered you before with road-tax demands??

If you don't get any joy with getting the V5, let me know and I will try to assist with what you will need to get a non-Q plate (plenty of determination being the primary requirement

)

Good luck
Tim

jeremy · #5 8th May 2012, 09:29

Hi tim, I am sure that I didnt have the foresight at the time to insure I became the registered donor at the time, thinking only of the build and not the final result...in fact I am not sure if Q plates had firmly been introduced at that time.I may give them a ring and see what happens

jeremy · #6 8th May 2012, 11:06

I spoke to dvla today, and am now cautiously optomistic about getting a new log book.....watch this space and fingers crossed!

AcC8braman · #7 11th July 2012, 12:12

Any joy?

jeremy · #8 12th July 2012, 04:32

yes, I have now a new log book,so it will make it easier to get a non_Q plate.

NigelB · #9 19th July 2012, 20:34

I have all the right documentation.

I have photographs of the engine in the donor with the finish missing on the camshaft cover, just as it is in the Sportster.

And when I scrapped the car I told DVLA that the components would be used in a kit car.

But the engine number stamped on the bottom LHS of the crankcase is completely unreadable. It looks as though corrosion has eroded it to such an extent that any numbers that were there have now disappeared.

Any ideas on how I can get an age related plate when it comes to registration with no obvious engine number??

Nigel

peterux · #10 19th July 2012, 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by NigelB

But the engine number stamped on the bottom LHS of the crankcase is completely unreadable. It looks as though corrosion has eroded it to such an extent that any numbers that were there have now disappeared.

Any ideas on how I can get an age related plate when it comes to registration with no obvious engine number??

Nigel

My latest engine's number was very corroded and initially unreadable but after a few goes at it with a wire brush and some emery cloth/oil I could begin to be able to read it OK. Sometimes taking a close up photo with flash can help. (assuming you don't have an x-ray forensic machine

)The BMW number stamping does seem to go quite deep.
I would persevere as an engine without a number will cause you problems at registration regardless of age related plate status.
If it is really completely gone then I see no reason why you shouldn't re-stamp it somewhere on the engine block. Especially if you have a copy of the donor's V5 to prove that you are not trying to change the engine number. I would only do this as a last resort as it may cause more problems.
Maybe wait until registration and see what they do? Just tell them what the number is and where it is stamped and let them try to figure it out.

...peter

NigelB · #11 19th July 2012, 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterux

My latest engine's number was very corroded and initially unreadable but after a few goes at it with a wire brush and some emery cloth/oil I could begin to be able to read it OK. Sometimes taking a close up photo with flash can help. ...peter

Thanks Peter. I've done a lot of work on it with a wire brush on the end of a drill and now I've ended up with a very shiny corroded patch where the number should be......................!!

I'll try emery and oil and I like the idea of taking a close up with a flash. That may reveal something if i can get the flash in there.

morris · #12 20th July 2012, 11:32

I've got an easily readable engine block number, the Donor V5 and the scrapping paperwork etc but I didn't see any options to state that I'd be using the components for a kit car. Should I be worried?

Maybe a call to the DVLA is in order. I will be down as the last owner so if this does cause a problem it should be nothing more than an administrative thing to correct.

I'm personally not worried about having a Q plate but I wouldn't want trouble registering it fullstop.

I've also just been looking through some examples of the reg forms and wondered what those who registered prior to painting put down as the colour, Silver or Baby Sick?

NigelB · #13 22nd July 2012, 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by morris

I've got an easily readable engine block number, the Donor V5 and the scrapping paperwork etc but I didn't see any options to state that I'd be using the components for a kit car. Should I be worried?

Ian, there was nowhere on the form to say the bits were destined for a kit car. I just said it in a covering letter - which chances are they didn't read anyway

peterux · #14 22nd July 2012, 09:59

In my case, I didn't officially scrap the donor car until I registered the Sportster but I've no reason to think that what you guys have done will cause a problem. You've both got good photographic records, should there be any questions.

IIRC there is only a limited list of 'V5' colours that you can choose. I registered mine as Beige.

...peter

morris · #15 22nd July 2012, 17:28

that makes me feel better. I do remember something on the destruction form stating that the car would not be returned to the road in any form but I took that to mean the chassis rather than salvaged parts, otherwise the salvage business would not exist

morris · #16 19th September 2012, 20:12

not feeling so confident on this now. I thought I had an easily readable engine number because I was looking at the massive embosed casting number rather than the completely unreadable stamped one on the little machined area next to the sump join

Nigel, did you get any further cleaning your's up? I've painted my block so I wonder if now sanding the paint back will leave the paint in what's left of the marks highlighting them a bit.

I was more concerned about getting the engine number to potentially prove it was a 92 build so I could argue for no cats, now I'm just worried if I can register it at all. I think the restamping option is looking good provided I can get some stamps the right size.

Mike · #17 19th September 2012, 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by morris

not feeling so confident on this now. I thought I had an easily readable engine number because I was looking at the massive embosed casting number rather than the completely unreadable stamped one on the little machined area next to the sump join

Nigel, did you get any further cleaning your's up? I've painted my block so I wonder if now sanding the paint back will leave the paint in what's left of the marks highlighting them a bit.

I was more concerned about getting the engine number to potentially prove it was a 92 build so I could argue for no cats, now I'm just worried if I can register it at all. I think the restamping option is looking good provided I can get some stamps the right size.

Ian
Have you tried writing to BMW, and asking for the engine number from them, as you presumably have the V5 and SORN document and original registration number, for your donor?

Also you have very good documentary evidence (on Flickr) to show where the engine came from, so I don't think you should be be too down beat about your chances of getting the engine age certified.

Mike

morris · #18 20th September 2012, 11:27

I was actually going to get a letter off to BMW tonight anyway as I want to get on with my exhaust system and the cat or no cat question needed answering first is it has a major effect on whether I can do the glorious 6-1 header and side pipe or have to hide an ugly pair of cats away under the car and come out the back. I'm actually starting to think that just to save some pain on emmisions testing full stop having a pair of removable cats is not a bad idea.

I have a copy of the V5 plus the donor destruction certificate so I do know the engine number, it's just proving that the one in the car is the one I'm claiming it is (it could have been swapped in the donor prior to my purchase without the DVLA being informed).

I rubbed a little boot polish on the plate and can make out about 3 of the numbers which is enough for me to be satisfied that it is the right engine but whether that is good enough for the IVA and DVLA I don't know.

morris · #19 20th September 2012, 19:08

Panic nearly over. I took off the engine enamel with a gasket scraper and then a quick rub with some wet and dry revealed loads more detail

still need to work on it a bit but feel much happier now. Shame that the bottom number isn't the important one as that's now clear as day

denniswpearce · #20 21st September 2012, 09:50

Ian, I was watching Wheeler Dealer" last night and the guys had bought a Cobra replica that had still to go through the IVA process to get it road legal. Now they needed to get a new exhaust made to get the emissions down to the required level. This meant that they had to fit cats to the big V8.

The cats were very small and very stream lined so were not ugly to look at, infact they looked perfect for the setup.

My point is don,t discount cats from your build.