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Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Marlin Sportster, Cabrio, Berlinetta and Roadster builds

Marlin Sportster, Cabrio, Berlinetta and Roadster builds Enthused or Confused about your vintage Marlin build? Ask away here or show off your build.

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  #1  
Old 8th March 2010, 12:38
timbo timbo is offline
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Default ECU Re-programming

Hi all
Given the starting problems I have experienced, I am considering having the ECU re-programmed to by-pass the immobiliser. Does anyone know anyone who can do this? Preferably without needing the whole car I have tried Prestige Decodes and Rollingmotion Ltd so far.
I am also trying to find out whether anyone will re-synch the ECU, immobiliser and key once the rolling code has been lost. No luck as yet but the research continues...
Thanks
Tim
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Old 8th March 2010, 16:08
Mike Mike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timbo View Post
Hi all
Given the starting problems I have experienced, I am considering having the ECU re-programmed to by-pass the immobiliser. Does anyone know anyone who can do this? Preferably without needing the whole car I have tried Prestige Decodes and Rollingmotion Ltd so far.
I am also trying to find out whether anyone will re-synch the ECU, immobiliser and key once the rolling code has been lost. No luck as yet but the research continues...
Thanks
Tim
Did you try Nick at EVO?
Mike
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  #3  
Old 8th March 2010, 16:30
Sorton Sorton is offline
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Back in the days when my engine was in the BMW, the ECU failed and it was remanufactured by a co. called ATP. The sticker on the ECU shows a phone no. 0543 467466 (presumably now 01543) in Staffordshire. There are other similar repair companies who may understand the workings enough to be able to by-pass your problem areas. Just a thought!
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  #4  
Old 8th March 2010, 22:19
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Hi Tim,
sorry to hear your still having ECU problems, as I assume the 'clocks' installation didn't work? What a shame, I thought we'd cracked it.

I have searched many times and never found anyone willing to modify a M52 ECU to remove the immobiliser. (If anyone knows, the're not telling !!)

I have considered two other options but not tested either....

1) get an M50 manifold, injectors ECU and engine wiring loom. No idea if it would work and the twin Vanos would certainly not work correctly.

2) Use an aftermarket ECU. I spent quite a lot of time researching all the options I could find but only a very few can properly manage the BMW twin Vanos. The best match (on paper) is a DTA Fast S 100 pro.

http://www.dtafast.co.uk/S_100_PRO.htm

They actually have wiring diagram for an M52 and I'm sure it will work. However, you're talking a 1k for the box plus a few hundred to get it mapped properly.

...sorry not much help...

...peter
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Old 12th March 2010, 10:57
timbo timbo is offline
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Thanks chaps
After a lot of research (including Nick at EVO) and head-banging (especially from BMW dealerships/Head Office, who won't help because the ECU is not installed in a BMW), I have found someone who will possibly be able to re-synchronise the ECU, immobiliser and key if I post them off to him, namely Paul at RollingMotion Ltd in Caerphilly.
It is only a short-term solution (ie carry a spare ECU set in the Sportster) but at the moment I can't afford the long-term solutions ie (i) use Peter's aftermarket ECU suggestion (ii) get someone to find out why the heck its not working, which will probably involve tracing and checking all the wiring (sadly I have no time to do this myself atm).
Like Peter, I haven't found anyone who will re-build the ECU to bypass the immobiliser.
My impression was that wiring the instrument cluster in gave me more starts than before, maybe more of it needs wiring in....????!!!!
Tim
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  #6  
Old 16th January 2014, 10:49
Mike Mike is offline
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Default M52 TUB28 - EWS Delete

Hi Tim

Happy New Year

I saw on a post you had moved on to another project using an MX5 donor, but wondered if you still have your Marlin Sportster and are still interested in someone claiming to have resolved the EWS delete on the M52TUB52 ECUU?

Cameron Mitchell (on here as Cammy) has bought a new E39 based Sportster and had been trying to find someone to allow him to run an M52TUB28.

He knew I was interested in this option and has forwarded the contact details of a BMW technician who claims he can do it / has done it?

If you would like his details I'll forward them by email if you PM me your email address.

Regards

Mike

C
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  #7  
Old 19th January 2014, 18:04
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Now this does look interesting.....

http://www.cardiag.co.uk/bmw-ew2-ews...9-e46-759.html

I'm no expert but if I'm reading this right it does look like a potential solution?
Maybe this is the solution that Cammy has found?
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  #8  
Old 26th January 2014, 16:44
Cammy Cammy is offline
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Tim/All,

I just got my ECU back from Jason Balbier from BW Auto repairs in Middlesex yesterday. It is a DME 41.1 from an 1997 car and I had the immobiliser deleted, ABS deleted and the Automatic Stability Control (ASC) rev restriction removed. Total cost was 90 including VAT and return postage.

I tried to get a concrete statement from him regarding my original engine (I changed the M52TUB28 to an M52B28 after hitting the same brick wall everyone else did) and the response I got from him was, quote, "ive been doing ews delete for many years so these engines will run and work in other body shells

ews delete started on the
e36 3.0i m3's
e36 3.2 evo mss50
e46 m3 mss54 abs soft cut delete
e39 m5 mss52 abs soft cut delete
e36 ms41 320i-328i with ac working abs soft cut delete
some ms42 and 43
2.5tds from e34 and e36

have removed ews or blanked ecu so can be either programmed to another car or aligned to another key set"


I don't know if this is of any value but if anyone wants to follow up you can reach Jason via, www.bwchiptune.co.uk

CHeers

Cammy
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  #9  
Old 16th August 2014, 21:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timbo View Post
Hi all
Given the starting problems I have experienced, I am considering having the ECU re-programmed to by-pass the immobiliser. Does anyone know anyone who can do this? Preferably without needing the whole car I have tried Prestige Decodes and Rollingmotion Ltd so far.
I am also trying to find out whether anyone will re-synch the ECU, immobiliser and key once the rolling code has been lost. No luck as yet but the research continues...
Thanks
Tim

Well, 4 years on and it now looks like you can get EWS deleted on an MS42 ECU for the M52TU engines now on ebay!!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-EWS-3-...item233eacaa13


But it does come with the following warning....

"Please note, for an engine transplant into a different chassis without the same electronic subsystems that the ECU expects, the ecu will run in safe mode and a EWS delete is not enough for such a transplant."

So it may still not be a complete solution to using the dual Vanos M52/M54 engines.

It has also raised a concern that I need an ABS delete for my MS41 ECU to stop it running in 'safe mode'?

Is there anyone on here that is running an MS41 ECU without an ABS delete?


....peter
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  #10  
Old 17th August 2014, 11:19
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Hi Peter

There is at least one Sportster owner running an M52B28, and possibly a second.
Al Barnes came to Stoneleigh in his immaculate Blue Sportster sporting an M52B28 which he has driven around Nurburgring - so he certainly is not stuck in limp mode. I have no idea of his contact details, but he must be an MOC member, so you could try to track him down via the Mem Sec.?

Cameron Mitchell is also going down the M52B28 route, but whether he has got his engine running, and been able to test whether it will deliver top speeds I don't know.
Maybe if he's tuned in he will let us know?

The ebay advert has not moved the current position on: the caveat says he can not carry out the necessary deletes to allow the transfer of an MS42 or 43 into a non OBD11 chassis.

Interestingly Adem Ergen at Ergen Motorsports claims he can re-write an MS43 ECU to allow an M54B30 to run in an E30, or E36 chassis. I have put down a 200 deposit and provided him with an MS43 ECU plus M54 harness which he says he will use to demonstrate an M54B30 running in an E30 mule, or engine cradle.

Having said that it was 3 months ago, and I am still waiting! A couple of days ago he responded saying he would do it over the next 4-6 weeks. I am not in a hurry so am prepared to wait until the end of September to find out.

I particularly want to go down the route of installing a fully functioning M54B30, as they develop significantly more torque (221 lbs) at much lower rpm (3500) than my M50TUB25 (181lbs at 4200rpm): better still the curve is much flatter and wider than the M50
For a road car Torque is more important to me as I do not like screaming engines that have to be constantly revved hard to get the performance.
Although my M50TUB25 is better since I refurbished the Vanos, it is noticeable how the performance really kicks in above 3,500rpm. From the dyno charts I've seen the M54B30 will easily out perform it, with its wide flat torque kicking in at around 2,000rpm. And the icing on the cake is the fuel economy should be at least as good, if not better.

If Ergen fail to deliver on their promise (he offered a money back guarantee) I will still swap the M54B30 into my Cabrio and initially run it on the M50's electronics using single on/off Vanos. There is a known proven route to do this. It will not develop its full potential, but the additional cube will still give a lot more torque, and even without DISA working will still deliver it lower down than the M50's inlet manifold allows.

The long game is that the engine will be in place ready to convert to an MS43 ECU and run twin variable Vanos and DISA if a proper solution is ever made available to the general public.

Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterux View Post
Well, 4 years on and it now looks like you can get EWS deleted on an MS42 ECU for the M52TU engines now on ebay!!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-EWS-3-...item233eacaa13


But it does come with the following warning....

"Please note, for an engine transplant into a different chassis without the same electronic subsystems that the ECU expects, the ecu will run in safe mode and a EWS delete is not enough for such a transplant."

So it may still not be a complete solution to using the dual Vanos M52/M54 engines.

It has also raised a concern that I need an ABS delete for my MS41 ECU to stop it running in 'safe mode'?

Is there anyone on here that is running an MS41 ECU without an ABS delete?


....peter
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  #11  
Old 17th August 2014, 21:14
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Hi Mike,
thanks for your very comprehensive reply and good to see that you are still looking for the Holy Grail of engines for your Marlin !!

My plan was to install my M52B28 complete with the EWS and key fob, etc assuming that would be a sure fire way of making everything work.
But now I see comments about ABS delete so I'll need to do a bit more research on what the ABS signal is to the MS41 ECU.

Cameron (Cammy) posted above that he has got a reprogrammed ECU with EWS delete AND the ABS signal deleted. It would be nice to get an update?
I don't know of the Al Barnes Sportster; do you know if he built it himself?

Good luck with your M54B30 engine install, I do hope Ergen come up with he goods. That will be a very quick car !!

...peter
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  #12  
Old 18th August 2014, 20:48
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Hi Peter

There is a photo of Al Barnes Sportster at Stoneleigh on the MOC - Thread title, unssurprisingly - Stoneleigh Pics - No.1 posted by Scott H.
I'm pretty sure he said he had built it himself.

Sorry tried to copy the photo URL and post here, but it came out MASSIVELY too big.
Do you know how to copy from the MOC site and control the size?



Mike
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Old 19th August 2014, 20:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike View Post
Hi Peter

There is a photo of Al Barnes Sportster at Stoneleigh on the MOC - Thread title, unssurprisingly - Stoneleigh Pics - No.1 posted by Scott H.
I'm pretty sure he said he had built it himself.

Sorry tried to copy the photo URL and post here, but it came out MASSIVELY too big.
Do you know how to copy from the MOC site and control the size?



Mike
Hi Mike,
ah, now I've seen the photo, I do remember seeing this car but didn't get to see the owner.
But reading the various BMW forum threads on engine swaps, the ABS signal (or lack of...) does seem to be a common problem with this version of the ECU. It's not exactly a 'limp mode' but more of a 'redline' restriction to about 5000 rpm. I'm now thinking of getting an ECU with the EWS deleted and the ABS signal issue fixed. It will be an easier installation without having to use the BMW column lock and key, and I can probably recover most of the cost by selling my existing matching set of ECU, EWS and keys.

at least, that the current thinking :-)....

...peter
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Old 20th August 2014, 14:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterux View Post
Hi Mike,
................good to see that you are still looking for the Holy Grail of engines for your Marlin !!
I had not thought about it like that, but you are absolutely right.I feel like Monty Python's Black Knight, with no legs, and down to one arm at the moment, still trying to carry the fight!

The bottom end grunt of an M54, which is ideal for a daily driver, is so tantalisingly close, yet so far away! - I know what is required: I even have someone adamantly telling me he can do it (Adem at Ergen Motorsport), yet I still do not have the working ECU in my hands............... ....................patience, Michael, patience.

C'mon then, I'll fight you with just one arm !

Your M52B28, with an easy to reprogramme ECU, is looking a good bet at the moment!
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Old 3rd October 2014, 18:10
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It has also raised a concern that I need an ABS delete for my MS41 ECU to stop it running in 'safe mode'?

Is there anyone on here that is running an MS41 ECU without an ABS delete?


....peter
A quick update to share here a few things I have learnt from the guy on ebay that is offering EWS delete on MS41.0 DME's (single VANOS M52 engines).

Some versions of MS41.0 are what he calls OTP (one time programmable) and these cannot be reprogrammed with the EWS deleted and/or ABS limiter delete fixed. This is what was fitted to my donor car. He also tells me that not all of these DME's had the ABS 'safe mode' limit so other builders who transplanted their EWS and key may not have experienced any issue with the missing ABS signal. I can run my engine with the ABS disconnected without any effect on the max. rpm.
I sourced another MS41.0 DME that can be re-programmed and he has confirmed that the one I bought does have the ABS signal requirement.
This DME is currently with him for a EWS delete and ABS signal fix.
I plan to test this in my car before I remove the engine so that I am sure it will run when re-installed in the Sabre.

The 'proof of the pudding' will be to run the car without the EWS module installed or the ABS connected.
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Old 24th October 2014, 15:15
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Smile Running My M54 : Looking Good

Just a quick follow up:

Tim Brierley and I went down to see Ergen Motorsport to see the M54B30 running on a standard MS43 ECU, but modified to run outside the normal E46 chassis. We had a very useful discussion about what Adem does, how he achieves it, and how he could help with Tim's M52TUB28?

Adem is clearly very knowledgable about BMW ECU programming and wiring, where he has obviously found a niche. He had several very sporty BMWs with engine transplants in his workshop, and clearly knew what he was doing.

As agreed, he had modified my M54 wiring loom and ECU, to make it literally 'plug and play' in my Cabrio. Interestingly he had retained the EWS for added security, removing only the CAN bus requirement to communicate with items such as instrument binnacle, ABS and a few other items that do not appear in my Cabrio: everything else remains totally standard.


This is the business end:

With modified MS43 ECU (to run the M54 without CAN bus, instrument binacle, ABS and various other items not on my Marlin chassis), but includes syncronised EWS, Key/Antenna, Drive by wire throttle and X20 connection to match my existing M50 X20 connector.




The X20 connector grafted onto the M54 wiring loom to make it Plug and Play.

The top part of the loom is standard with all the necessary connections to the engine sensors etc.



The whole loom does not look too bad when laid out like this - the top section all goes to engine connectors - just a case working out which is which! - and the bottom half requires the X20 connection, the BMW key to be close to the Antenna, plus a live and Earth, so even I can manage that!




My plan is to test my M54 engine alongside my Cabrio before installing it, by plugging the new X20 into my Cabrio's socket, then add a few strategic Earths and a mains supply to the starter motor, and divert the fuel hose across from my Cabrio chassis, and should then be able to start the M54 from the ignition in my Cabrio!

It sounds almost too simple to be true, but provided I get my wiring connections right, it should work.

Tim had a good chat with Adem about his M52TU, and it appears that the same wiring loom for mine will provide Tim with a loom which works.
Tim left with arrangements to take his Sportster along to Adem to make a proper assessment.

A very worthwhile day out - quite exciting for both of us
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  #17  
Old 26th October 2014, 20:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike View Post

My plan is to test my M54 engine alongside my Cabrio before installing it, by plugging the new X20 into my Cabrio's socket, then add a few strategic Earths and a mains supply to the starter motor, and divert the fuel hose across from my Cabrio chassis, and should then be able to start the M54 from the ignition in my Cabrio!
This is going to be the most amazing Marlin Cabrio! The Holy Grail is within reach!

You'll be able to do doughnuts with that amount of power and torque

Good luck with the 'bench' testing.....
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Old 3rd September 2014, 21:16
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Hi Guys, Cammy here!

Sorry for the radio silence on the Marlin build and the delayed response to the post.

I do indeed have the M52B28 but it is yet to fire up in earnest. So far I have had it turning from an aftermarket ignition key and my own wiring interfaced with the ECU but I decided to remove the spark plugs and not put fuel in the system as there is still a bit of work to be done for the prop shaft and exhaust and I didn't want fuel in there with the potential for some hot work!

When I got the ECU 'chipped' the ASC rev limit was removed so I am hopeful that once I get the fuel in and give it a try there should be no limp mode to address.

As far as sources for getting the ECU and immobiliser issues sorted I think Craig Ramsay found a great guy who can sort out a lot of these issues. The guy is called Chris Ransley and he works for CR M-Tech. His e-mail address is chris.crmtech@btinternet.com or call him on 07949 464 954.

I am about to start work on the car after a few months off - one of those 'disillusioned with the build' breaks and a summer of focussing on golf and other things. Aim is to get the engine/dashboard wiring finished and a bit of the body work and floors to let a local garage sort out the exhaust and prop shaft. Aiming for that to be done over the winter so that I can fuel her up and have a test run up the drive in Spring.

Cheers for now

Cammy
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Old 4th September 2014, 20:04
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Thanks for the feedback.

...peter
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Old 13th September 2014, 08:18
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Over the past week or so I've been doing loads of background reading on Megasquirt MS3 and come to the conclusion it is by far the easiest and most cost effective way of over coming all these OEM ECU issues people have with the later 90's engines. The only thing that causes an issue is controlling the VANOS. MS3 can do the on off VVT on the M50 based on different parameters but I think variable the continuous VANOS seen on the later M52 and M54 onwards requires a bit more electronics know how though you could just run it as on/off.

The other benefit of going this route is complete control over your tuning for any future upgrades or engine swaps.

I've costed it up including all the test boards at around 500 as a kit from the US, maybe a bit more if you want to also buy a wide band O2 sensor. my current plan is to set one up on my current engine and use it as a learning opportunity for either building an M50B30 or swapping out to something different entirely.

you'll spend well over 300 just getting a tuner to do a one of map for you where as this can be infinitely tweaked over time
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