Brake Pads

GreatOldOne · #1 13th May 2010, 17:59

I've used standard BMW (Jurid) brake pads on Vikki, and whilst she stops OK, some times I feel as if she could anchor up a bit better.

The easiest thing to swap out before doing anything more drastic would be the pads. I've heard that EBC do pads with a bit more bite to them - does anyone have any experience with them? Or with any other brand that might perform better?

MartinClan · #2 14th May 2010, 07:43

I feel much the same about my Sportster. I have a theory. The BMW pads are designed to work with a servo with a big boost ratio - I suspect these means they are very hard. The Metro servo gives a lot less boost meaning the pads dont get the shove they need to make them start working in earnest. I think that some softer pads would work better - but how you get hold of some I don't know. I guess it would be worth trying to find a braking specialist - if such a thing exists.

Robin

GreatOldOne · #3 14th May 2010, 09:54

As EBC are in Northampton, I've just sent this to them:

Quote:

Hi,

I have a Marlin Sportster kit car:

www.greatoldone.co.uk

Which is based on a BMW e30 325i. As such, the braking system has been retained from the donor car bar the servo, as it is physically too large.

This has been replaced with a Marlin supplied servo, which just happens to be a Rover Metro part - so there isn't much assistance.

The car weighs around 890kg, and makes around 160-170bhp. It currently has OEM brake discs and pads (JURID). Whilst the car stops, It doesn't stop as rapidly as i'd like.

Would different pads and discs help here? If so, what EBC pads (and discs if necessary) would you recommend to increase the brake performance? The car is used on the road, driven in a 'spirited manner' :-)

Many thanks,

Jason Cundall

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/index.html

I'll see what they say.

GreatOldOne · #4 14th May 2010, 10:22

Wow. That was quick!

Quote:

Originally Posted by EBC

Hi Jason

We would recommend our yellowstuff pads

DP4779R front pads

DP4447R rear pads

Discs would only be needed if the discs need replacing as it is the
friction material that gives you the stopping power

Thanks

Andrew Bartosiak

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/automotive/...ads_4000.shtml

Here's links to the recomended pads:
Front - http://www.ebcbrakeshop.co.uk/ebc-br...r_p1179572.htm

Rear - http://www.ebcbrakeshop.co.uk/ebc-br...r_p1186482.htm

Just over £100 - cheaper than multi pot calliper upgrades...

Sorton · #5 14th May 2010, 14:01

Interesting, greenstuff are the generally recommended EBC pads for fast road use by the motoring press. I think the yellowstuff ones are the next grade up the ladder and will be interested to hear how you get on if you take their advice.

Incidentally, I always thought that the brakes on my donor lacked bite but they did the job well enough. However, the brakes on the A4 Avant that followed felt much more "grippy" and the ones on my present E46 are certainly better than the E30. I wonder how the rear drum set-up feels?

Patrick · #6 14th May 2010, 18:48

I've been repeated recommended to steer clear of ebc, I've not tried them myself. Mintex get good recomendatioms and ferodo. I've sorely tempted by wilwood 4 pots

but that's out of budget for now. I'm sticking with jurid for now - you can lock the wheel even at speed if you push hard enough

peterux · #7 14th May 2010, 21:03

My brake travel has got a bit longer than it was. Not sure why?
As some of you may remember i've got drums on the back.
It's so many years since I fitted the rear brakes I can't remember if they are self adjusting or not. I'll have to dig out the old Haynes manual which I haven't used for ages....

...peter

Patrick · #8 14th May 2010, 21:08

hmm that's odd. Drums on the back shouldn't be much of a problem, my back brakes barely get used - they've got a pressure reducer in-line which the donor had.

You could try re-bleeding the system, maybe some air has gotten in somewhere?

GreatOldOne · #9 15th May 2010, 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick

I've been repeated recommended to steer clear of ebc

Really? Why? I've only ever seen good press about them.

Patrick · #10 15th May 2010, 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreatOldOne

Really? Why? I've only ever seen good press about them.

http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showt...&highlight=ebc

http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showt...&highlight=ebc

http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showt...&highlight=ebc

Like I said I don't have personal experience but they get slated a lot

alackofspeed · #11 16th May 2010, 11:52

I tried green stuff years ago, as they were cheaper and supposedly better than OEM pads. They were on the car a week (500 miles ish) before I got shot of them - poor cold bite, and made an awful noise when hot.

A few years later, and a different car, I thought in the interests of experimenting I'd try some red stuff pads. Again, they were on the car for approx 1000 miles before I sold them on.

I've since tried yellow stuff pads on the 5EXI and a Clio 182 cup..... they lasted less than a day on track on the Clio, and were inconsistent on the 5exi. I've now replaced them with DS2500 pads, and although much more expensive than the yellowstuffs, the performance is in a different league.

I've read of, and been told of good experiences with the yellowstuff, but I've found them poor.

GreatOldOne · #12 16th May 2010, 18:45

Hokay... Where's the best place to source Ferodo pads from? I'd like to see how much a set would be.

alackofspeed · #13 16th May 2010, 20:05

Circuit Supplies 01525 385888

By the way, I'm surprised about the braking power issue. The Sportster isn't massively heavy at 890kg, and from memory the E30 runs 260mm front discs, which is the same diamter as the Rover discs on the 5exi. My 5exi weighs ~700kg, and I don't have a servo! The brakes lack the over-assisted bite of many modern cars (VAG are particularly bad in this respect), but the power is there as proven by the way the car stops on track - I can lock up R888s on high friction runway tarmac.

Mike · #14 16th May 2010, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreatOldOne

I've used standard BMW (Jurid) brake pads on Vikki, and whilst she stops OK, some times I feel as if she could anchor up a bit better.

The easiest thing to swap out before doing anything more drastic would be the pads. I've heard that EBC do pads with a bit more bite to them - does anyone have any experience with them? Or with any other brand that might perform better?

GOO
What is it you don't like about your brakes? Having watched your build with great interest I have always been sceptical about you using flexible hose throughout. By their nature these will expand a little and with so much of it you are likely to get a soft pedal - that's why road going car have hard brake lines and only use a short section of flexible hose to connect to each wheel.

Changing your brake lines to hard brake pipes will be the cheapest option.

If you change your pads, do not choose race pads: these are designed to work at high temperatures through continuous heavy braking, and are dangerous on general road use as they rarely reach operating temperature, and offer very limited braking effect.

GreatOldOne · #15 17th May 2010, 08:38

I used flexible hoses everywhere as they where what where supplied from Marlin. They're well made stainless over-braided from HEL, and they do the job... However I'm not adverse to swapping to hard pipes if needs be, but from the sounds of it Robin has a similar issue - and he has hard pipes.

It's not that she won't stop. She does - It's probably just me being used to more assistance in my other cars.

That or I just haven't driven Vikki enough to get the pads and disks bedded in properly.

MartinClan · #16 17th May 2010, 08:53

As Jason said - I am not impressed with the brakes - and I beleive the problem is caused by using standard BMW brake linings and a micky mouse Metro servo. I swapped my servo over the winter for a brand new one hoping things would improve. But as the car is still not fully re-assembled after painting I have nothing to report yet. Hopefully later this week :-)

Robin

Patrick · #17 17th May 2010, 10:20

I found the donor cars brakes a bit weak in the donor car but them I'm used to an over assisted modern car. I keep having to remind myself when I drive the Sportster that I need to push very hard on the brakes. Has worked OK for me so far but I have felt there is room for improvement on the initial bite. I have got copper pipes most of the way and braided flexy lines for the final bits.

Chris Cussen · #18 17th May 2010, 10:27

GOO: Your brakes couldn't have been that bad to get through IVA!

GreatOldOne · #19 17th May 2010, 11:19

I'm not saying they don't work or that they're shockingly bad. Just that sometimes I feel as if they could be better.

I just have to remember to give myself more room to stop than in the Laguna or the Jag.

MartinClan · #20 17th May 2010, 12:21

I ran a 1989 318is while I was building the Sportster. The brakes on that were equal to any modern car. That's why I suspect the combination of Metro Servo and BMW linings. Like Jason, my brakes aren't bad - just not as good as I would have expected given my eperience driving the 318is and the reduced weight of the Sportster.

Robin