IVA Retest

[timbo]

Hi all
Failed the re-test today, extremely frustrating. Only 2 points left on the list though:

1. Speedo. Having fitted an aftermarket device (reads the pulses off the bolts) to the rear O/S diff axle, the reading was too unstable to be read accurately. Initial solution will be to try a stronger bracket as I think the vibrations were affecting it.
2. Emissions. Last time they tested the right hand exhaust which failed. It passed this time! But then the guy (a different one to last time) had a look underneath and decided the left hand side exhaust should be tested as well as they have separate cats, and the left hand one failed. Grrrrr. New lambda sensor ???????

To be fair, the guy was very reasonable and friendly and I have no complaints.

One other point of interest: I had put in an E30 brake pressure regulator at the back as it had failed previously on the braking ratio between the 2 axles. Well this seems to have done the trick as it passed this this time.
Oh yeah one more thing, Jason, when you fill in your IVA form, I suggest you put down the axle weights as 500 and 600. I originally put down 500 and 550 as recommended by M..... but the back one came out on their test as 578 which of course was a fail point. It was no problem to redeclare the correct weight but ...

On the plus side, I drove it from Bath to Taunton and back with no problems (except I think the UJ on the front end of the prop shaft is knackered as there was a bit of vibration at high speed), great fun although it was flippin freezin! but God was the acceleration worth it
Tim

[peterux]

Hi Tim,
sorry to hear you failed again but at least you had a good drive

Both items look fixable and then you'll be the first M52 engined car on the road. Looks like you finally got all the security stuff sorted, shame about the Speedo and emmisions.

Good luck with the re-test!

cheers

Peter

[GreatOldOne]

Originally Posted by timbo

.
Oh yeah one more thing, Jason, when you fill in your IVA form, I suggest you put down the axle weights as 500 and 600. I originally put down 500 and 550 as recommended by M..... but the back one came out on their test as 578 which of course was a fail point. It was no problem to redeclare the correct weight but ...

Sorry to hear about the second fail Tim - so nearly there! 3rd time's the charm.

Thanks for the advice on the axle weights.

I have some lines on my VIN plate for these - should I stamp it up with it? I don't believe it's a requirement, but as I have the room for it...

[chrislandy]

Originally Posted by timbo

2. Emissions. Last time they tested the right hand exhaust which failed. It passed this time! But then the guy (a different one to last time) had a look underneath and decided the left hand side exhaust should be tested as well as they have separate cats, and the left hand one failed. Grrrrr. New lambda sensor ???????

Most likely that the right hand cat is getting more airflow and heating up to the correct temperature while the other is not getting hot enough - either that or the left hand cat is fubar.

how much did it fail by?

Chris

[Chris Cussen]

Tough luck Tim, still not much left to fix.. good luck on the re-retest

Jason - My VIN plate only showed "Marlin Cabrio" and V4235KRKRLC1002CC, anything else is discretionary.

Seems like your sportsters are a bit on the heavy side, my cabrio weighed in at 420/440. I was going to make some comment about being overweight, but that seems to be un-PC these days!

[GreatOldOne]

Hey - Vicky isn't fat. She's just big boned.

Speaking of weights (again), is there anyway short of driving to weigh bridge that you can check the axle weights yourself? It all seems a bit 'pick a number, any number' and hope that it passes.

[peterux]

Originally Posted by GreatOldOne

I have some lines on my VIN plate for these - should I stamp it up with it? I don't believe it's a requirement, but as I have the room for it...

I wouldn't stamp them on the plate unless asked to. If you get it wrong it could be a lot of hassle changing it.
After a quick survey of what cars passed and which ones failed I used 550kg front and 700kg rear. No questions and no issues at the SVA.
My limited understanding is that so long as your car actually weighs lighter than the stated design weights your OK. I erred on the high side.
...peter

[timbo]

I agree with Peter. Just err on the heavy side to be sure. Im certain they don't actually check with M.....
Emissions on left side were well high, about 1.15 instead of between 0.97 and 1.03. So new cat then ?????
Tim

[Mike]

Originally Posted by GreatOldOne

Hey - Vicky isn't fat. She's just big boned.

Speaking of weights (again), is there anyway short of driving to weigh bridge that you can check the axle weights yourself? It all seems a bit 'pick a number, any number' and hope that it passes.

Goo

Simon in Daventry used a special weigh pad that he was able to borrow from work. Have a look on his flickr site

Mike

[timbo]

Hi all
One day I will report some good news. Today, however, is not that day.
Having resolved the remaining IVA issues, I booked it in for an MOT.
Only to get a call later from the garage to say that it wouldn't start.
Despite me putting a new ECU, immobiliser and key in, which had been working fine.
So, why, after 50ish perfectly good starts, did it not start this time?
We think its back to the ECU/immobilier/key. I found a major engine fuse which had blown (but replacing this didn't start it either).
So the rolling code from the immobiliser had presumably not got back to the key.
Was it because when the fuse blew, there was no power to send the new rolling code back to the key? Do 'normal' BMW immobilisers have some sort of back-up system so that it is stored somewhere in just this type of situation? Is it to do with the fact that there is 1 wire from the immobiliser which I didn't connect up, ie the one going to the K-bus (which I don't have)?

My solution was to ring the local BMW dealership who said they would look at it (78 quid an hour labour ouch ouch ouch) provided it had a diagnostic plug fitted. So they ordered me a new diagnostic plug, but my electrician can't fit it because we don't have the (female) pins. So its off to a scrap yard tomorrow to try and cut off a suitable diagnostic plug ...

Peter, I don't know if this problem will occur when you fit your M52 engine, cos you seem to be missing a few parts of the original loom as well, but will keep you posted on what BMW say on Tuesday...
Cheers
Tim

[peterux]

Hi Tim,
sorry to hear your still having issues with your car, that e46 EWS III system is certainly fiendish.

I found this document on the web but I don't yet profess to be any kind of expert, but it might be worth a read.
http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/BMW_EWS.pdf

I suggest you start by trying to find out what was happening/caused the fuse to blow as that might still be the problem. As you say you've had it running for some time, so it should work.

I've been collecting all kinds of bits for mine but have had no time to actually experiment in the garage due to work/diy commitments.
I've been trying for ages to get a 20 pin diagnostic socket but so far not found one for less than silly money. (I even have a complete e36 engine loom so might convert it back to e36 electrics but that seems a shame as the twin vanos won't work, etc) The e36 20 pin Diagnostic socket is diffrent pin out to the e46.

I think with the right software and the diagnostic connector you can re-align the ECU, EWS and key?

I spoke to one BMW ECU expert but they wouldn't touch it without the dashboard connected!! I'm sure someone must know how to fool the ECU but haven't found them yet.

Hope you get it sorted,
all the best, peter

[timbo]

Thanks Peter.
The 20-pin socket from BMW cost me a fiver, but as there is so much missing from the original loom, i don't think there is much to connect up. (no instrument bus, no abs etc etc) I'm hoping that my electrician will be able to connect enough for them to re-align the ECU, EWS and key as you say but the BMW people were doing a lot of sucking in air through their teeth although to be fair were trying to be helpful.
As you say, a fiendish system!
I will try to find the cause of the fuse failure, my man suggested that as there was so much going through it, the best way was to split it up into several smaller fuses so we could identify the problem.
Cheers
Tim

[Mike]

Originally Posted by timbo

Thanks Peter.
The 20-pin socket from BMW cost me a fiver, but as there is so much missing from the original loom, i don't think there is much to connect up. (no instrument bus, no abs etc etc) I'm hoping that my electrician will be able to connect enough for them to re-align the ECU, EWS and key as you say but the BMW people were doing a lot of sucking in air through their teeth although to be fair were trying to be helpful.
As you say, a fiendish system!
I will try to find the cause of the fuse failure, my man suggested that as there was so much going through it, the best way was to split it up into several smaller fuses so we could identify the problem.
Cheers
Tim

Tim
Chris Cunliffe found an ex BMW auto electrician who helped him with his electrics - I suspect at a lot lower rate than £70/hour. Although his is an M50 engine and the electrics are much simpler, I'm sure this guy would be able to help?
If you need Chris's contact details please send me a pm and I'll gladly return them for you.
Mike

[timbo]

Thanks for the offer Mike, but I took it down to the BMW dealer today, having connected up a diagnostic plug for them to plug into their machine.

Unfortunately, they can only re-sync the ECU and immobiliser if they can talk to the immobiliser... which they do from the diagnostic plug via the instrument cluster to the immobiliser, and of course I haven't got the instrument cluster. (There was 1 wire out of the immobiliser which I hadn't connected up, now I know where it goes!).
So, next solution, get a second hand instrument cluster, temporarily connect it between the diagnostic plug and the immobiliser, and hopefully then it can be re-coded.
No nearer to getting an explanation as to why it didn't send the rolling code back to the key properly though...
Still, I feel that I have learnt an awful lot about M52 wiring over the last few days...months...years...!!

[Mike]

Originally Posted by timbo

Thanks for the offer Mike, but I took it down to the BMW dealer today, having connected up a diagnostic plug for them to plug into their machine.

Unfortunately, they can only re-sync the ECU and immobiliser if they can talk to the immobiliser... which they do from the diagnostic plug via the instrument cluster to the immobiliser, and of course I haven't got the instrument cluster. (There was 1 wire out of the immobiliser which I hadn't connected up, now I know where it goes!).
So, next solution, get a second hand instrument cluster, temporarily connect it between the diagnostic plug and the immobiliser, and hopefully then it can be re-coded.
No nearer to getting an explanation as to why it didn't send the rolling code back to the key properly though...
Still, I feel that I have learnt an awful lot about M52 wiring over the last few days...months...years...!!

Tim

You might like to try Nick at EVO - Tel 07768 400048 - he is based in Nottingham. He has built and raced BMWs as a business and swapped engines around , so he knows about the code issues - he may be able to give you some free advice and save you some time and aggravation.
Good luck
Mike

[peterux]

Originally Posted by timbo

Thanks for the offer Mike, but I took it down to the BMW dealer today, having connected up a diagnostic plug for them to plug into their machine.

Unfortunately, they can only re-sync the ECU and immobiliser if they can talk to the immobiliser... which they do from the diagnostic plug via the instrument cluster to the immobiliser, and of course I haven't got the instrument cluster. (There was 1 wire out of the immobiliser which I hadn't connected up, now I know where it goes!).
So, next solution, get a second hand instrument cluster, temporarily connect it between the diagnostic plug and the immobiliser, and hopefully then it can be re-coded.
No nearer to getting an explanation as to why it didn't send the rolling code back to the key properly though...
Still, I feel that I have learnt an awful lot about M52 wiring over the last few days...months...years...!!

Sheeze........
This is becomming a matharon!
You will soon have a whole BMW 328i bolted inside your Sportster!!

I was determined to get my M52 engine working but this is looking like a recipe for breakdowns and tows home??

I wonder how an M52TU runs with an e36 328i loom, ECU, EWS and M50 325i manifold and throttle body? The e36 electronics seem a lot simpler.
The twin vanos won't work but what impact will that have on the power curve? Does anybody know if BMW introduced twin vanos for power(?) or fuel emiisons?
The M50 325i manifold and throttle body will boost the power so i'm thinking the twin vanos not working may not be a problem.
It seems a shame but the e46 electronics look very temperamental.

Am I missing anything?

[Mike]

Originally Posted by peterux

Sheeze........
This is becomming a matharon!
You will soon have a whole BMW 328i bolted inside your Sportster!!

Thast was the conclusion I came to when researching which engine to go for ie you will need the entire engine loom, ignition switch and key, plus instrument console to allow it all to work. That or find a very clever BMW technician who knows how to re-programme the ECU to deal with items that are missing. This can be done, Nick at EVO has the the knowledge.
Regards
Mike

[MartinClan]

Originally Posted by peterux

Sheeze........
This is becomming a matharon!
You will soon have a whole BMW 328i bolted inside your Sportster!!

I was determined to get my M52 engine working but this is looking like a recipe for breakdowns and tows home??

I wonder how an M52TU runs with an e36 328i loom, ECU, EWS and M50 325i manifold and throttle body? The e36 electronics seem a lot simpler.
The twin vanos won't work but what impact will that have on the power curve? Does anybody know if BMW introduced twin vanos for power(?) or fuel emiisons?
The M50 325i manifold and throttle body will boost the power so i'm thinking the twin vanos not working may not be a problem.
It seems a shame but the e46 electronics look very temperamental.

Am I missing anything?

If you google VANOS you will find that there is considerable difference between the single and double version. From what I have read the operation of the twin vanos is far more complex and integrated into the engines overall performance including emmisions.

Interesting article here

http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/...explained-t62/

My guess is that if you run the engine without it you are going to loose much of the advantage of moving to that type of engine.

Robin

[peterux]

Originally Posted by MartinClan

If you google VANOS you will find that there is considerable difference between the single and double version. From what I have read the operation of the twin vanos is far more complex and integrated into the engines overall performance including emmisions.

Interesting article here

http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/...explained-t62/

My guess is that if you run the engine without it you are going to loose much of the advantage of moving to that type of engine.

Robin

Yes, it would be a shame not to use the variable cam timing as desigend.

I've been looking at aftermarjket ECU's. The advantage is they do not have any security and are fully programmable.
Omex do one for VVT (Vanos) but it costs about £1k!!
But maybe if I sell the BMW aircon pump, alternator, loom, ecu's, EWS, etc.
Might be able to raise some of the money?

Tim, sorry I seem to be hijacking your thread......
got your engine running yet?

...peter

[timbo]

Hijack away I hope this thread will be of use to anyone else thinking of using an M52 engine!
Spent all day on Friday at the local BMW dealership. I wired in an instrument cluster (correctly at the 2nd attempt!) but for some reason their computer still couldn't talk to my immobiliser. There should have been a significant output from the K-bus wire on the instrument cluster to the EWS but there wasn't. Humph. Their main guy was busy on something else so I will try again tomorrow.
There was a couple of wires I could have connected up from the instrument cluster to module 4 of the DME, I don't know whether this would have any effect. Am rapidly running out of ideas...
Will give Mike's recommended guy a call tomorrow.
Cheers
Tim