How many Sportster builders are there out there?

[timbo]

Welcome Nigel
I'm based in Bath/Bristol if you want to see an M52 wiring jungle
All the best
Tim

[peterux]

Originally Posted by NigelB

Hello to all.

Probably don't qualify as a builder yet but that's about to change.

I built a Marlin Roadster back in the late 80's before the days of SVA and IVA and fuel injection and engine management systems and internet and build threads and forums. All I needed was a minimal instruction set, a quick MOT and a meeting with the local vehicle registration office (who came to me!!) and I was on the road. It was all Marina based - lovely long legged B series engine meant it barely needed a gearbox but it didn't have much of a top end. I kept it for about five years and then other priorities and lack of space meant it had to go.

Now seriously contemplating a repeat excercise with a Sportster. But looking at all your build sites and reading the forums it looks like a much more complex endeavour that it was 25 years ago. But I seem to recall most of the fun was in overcoming the challenges so I'm not put off yet. Faint heart never......... etc.

I would really like to make contact with some of you to see and talk about the fruits of your labours. I live in Reading so I'm not too far from anywhere. As you can imagine, ('cus you've all been there) I've got loads of qestions at this stage that which could easily be answered over a chat rather than fill up a forum so it would be good to meet. I see I'm too late for Stonliegh this year.

One question to start though at this planning stage:- E30 or E36. I see earlier in this thread that the E30 wins the popularity stakes but there's some question over the E36 ECU reliability.

I'm looking forward to being part of this forum and once I've worked out how to do it I'll post some pictures of the old Roadster on flickr.

Nigel

Hi Nigel,
welcome to the forum. The building of a Sporster can be quite challenging and you will need to plan to spend quite a few hours or plan to do it over a number of years but the result is a superb car to own and drive!

I'm only up the road (M4) from you at Uxbridge, so when your fit I'll be happy to show you my car.

I think when most of us started building on this forum, the e36 was too expensive as a donor, but I believe that is changed.
The newer the car and engine the more challenges you will face with emmissions at the IVA but it depends on what you are trying to achieve. Some have buit e36/M50 based cars successfully but i would avoid the e46/M52 or M54 engines as the immobiliser electronics is a nightmare, as Tim will tell you!

In the meantime, ask away with your questions, as i'm sure one of us will have come across the issue, whatever it is!


...peter

[NigelB]

Originally Posted by timbo

Welcome Nigel
I'm based in Bath/Bristol if you want to see an M52 wiring jungle
All the best
Tim

Hi Tim,

Many thanks.

I am in the Bristol area faily regularly so it would be great to visit.

Vehicle wiring though...............

You've gone straight for my jugular !!

Cheers

Nigel

[NigelB]

Originally Posted by peterux

Hi Nigel,
welcome to the forum. The building of a Sporster can be quite challenging and you will need to plan to spend quite a few hours or plan to do it over a number of years but the result is a superb car to own and drive!

I'm only up the road (M4) from you at Uxbridge, so when your fit I'll be happy to show you my car.

I think when most of us started building on this forum, the e36 was too expensive as a donor, but I believe that is changed.
The newer the car and engine the more challenges you will face with emmissions at the IVA but it depends on what you are trying to achieve. Some have buit e36/M50 based cars successfully but i would avoid the e46/M52 or M54 engines as the immobiliser electronics is a nightmare, as Tim will tell you!

In the meantime, ask away with your questions, as i'm sure one of us will have come across the issue, whatever it is!


...peter

Hi Peter,

Your not very far away at all so thanks for your kind offer and I'll certainly be along to see you.

I was reckoning on a much longer build than my roadster. That took me less than a year so I was thinking of at least doubling that for a Sportster. I was looking at Jasons 4 year build, but then realised that at least a year of that must have been devoted to his fantastic build site...............!!

Thanks for your thought on the E30 / E36 choice. Is it specifically the M52 engine immobiliser wiring that is the problem or is it the E46/M52 combination. I am guessing from Tim's comments that it's the M52 engine and that I should opt for an M50 to save the heartache

Nigel

[raasayphil]

Hi

I am based in Biggar Scotland (30 miles south of Edinburgh) and having had kit for over 6 years (50th birthday present!) am starting to make some progress! Have front suspension on, rear trailing arms (although problem with bump stop alignment).

Currently preparing engine for painting and cleaning other bits to be painted. Diff nearly ready to go on but just spotted something needs to be ground off any guidance from you experts would be appreciated.

Have not been keeping anything in way of photos etc but may start if I can get to grips with Flikr or the like.

some of websites (Patrick and Marlinpeter) are excellant and without these to guide and encourage.....

Anyway must go and get working with needle gun on block ro get ready for painting.

Any owners/builders up this neck of the woods?

Phil

[timbo]

Hi Nigel
The M52 engine requires a matching ECU, immobiliser and key which is not too much of a problem...however, I have found that this is not enough to maintain the rolling codes for very long, as they all communicate via the instrument cluster as well.
My attempts at wiring in an instrument cluster after doing the rest of it I thought had gone well, except that the same problem of getting about 50 starts and the immobiliser cutting in recurred.
My Sportster is currently in the hands of a BMW wiring expert in Caerphilly, he has wired up another loom to solve the problem, except it hasn't, yet....

Hopefully if you go down this route, forewarned is forearmed Although keeping as much of the donor loom and instrument cluster as possible would give you a much better starting point than I had.
Hope this helps.
Tim

[MartinClan]

Originally Posted by NigelB

Hello to all.

Probably don't qualify as a builder yet but that's about to change.

I built a Marlin Roadster back in the late 80's before the days of SVA and IVA and fuel injection and engine management systems and internet and build threads and forums. All I needed was a minimal instruction set, a quick MOT and a meeting with the local vehicle registration office (who came to me!!) and I was on the road. It was all Marina based - lovely long legged B series engine meant it barely needed a gearbox but it didn't have much of a top end. I kept it for about five years and then other priorities and lack of space meant it had to go.

Now seriously contemplating a repeat excercise with a Sportster. But looking at all your build sites and reading the forums it looks like a much more complex endeavour that it was 25 years ago. But I seem to recall most of the fun was in overcoming the challenges so I'm not put off yet. Faint heart never......... etc.

I would really like to make contact with some of you to see and talk about the fruits of your labours. I live in Reading so I'm not too far from anywhere. As you can imagine, ('cus you've all been there) I've got loads of qestions at this stage that which could easily be answered over a chat rather than fill up a forum so it would be good to meet. I see I'm too late for Stonliegh this year.

One question to start though at this planning stage:- E30 or E36. I see earlier in this thread that the E30 wins the popularity stakes but there's some question over the E36 ECU reliability.

I'm looking forward to being part of this forum and once I've worked out how to do it I'll post some pictures of the old Roadster on flickr.

Nigel

Hello Nigel

I too built a Marlin Roadster - mine was Triumph based so probably even longer ago than you... I completed my Sportster last year. It's true that modern engine management and the SVA (now IVA) make the build more difficult (and expensive) but you end up with a much better car as a result.

Mine is E30 based. The engine isn't as sophisticated as that from an E36 but the electronics are simpler and it's not so difficult to fit - in fact it fits pretty well... The E30 rear suspension seems better as well - I have seen people mention problems with travel (or lack of it) on the rear of E36 models.

On the downside there have been some problems with the front wing mounts on the E30 - and there is much less choice of wheels for the 4 bolt pattern.

Robin (Bedfordshire)

[NigelB]

Thanks for all the input.

I'm getting the feeling from all your comments that an E30/M20 route offers the least barriers

- easier IVA - emmisions
- prefferred rear suspension option
- much simpler electronics, particularly the immobiliser
- easier fit under the bonnet
- lots of experience on the forums

I was also thinking about a mix and match route with an E36 front for the wing stays if that was possible or maybe an E36 with a M20 engine but am I right in thinking that all the major donor bits need to come from a single vehicle to get an original year plate.

Probably E30/M20 would be my first choice.

Nigel

[MartinClan]

E36 front struts would certainly be better from the wing stay point of view. But the E36 used 5 bolt wheels so, unless you wanted different wheels front and back you would have to find some 4 to 5 stud adapters for the back. Not so major a problem as it might seem as they do exist and, anyway, the back needs spacers with most wheels.

I don't suppose that the DVLA would even notice the fact that the front was E36 and the rear E30.

Robin

[GreatOldOne]

Originally Posted by MartinClan

E36 front struts would certainly be better from the wing stay point of view.

How so? Is ther some way of bolting the stays to the upright, like the old Sierra based kits?

[MartinClan]

Originally Posted by GreatOldOne

How so? Is ther some way of bolting the stays to the upright, like the old Sierra based kits?

I believe so....

Robin

[Patrick]

E36 struts are bolted to the hub giving a good place to mount the wing. The E30 ones are a single piece

[Mike]

Originally Posted by NigelB

Thanks for all the input.

I'm getting the feeling from all your comments that an E30/M20 route offers the least barriers

- easier IVA - emmisions
- prefferred rear suspension option
- much simpler electronics, particularly the immobiliser
- easier fit under the bonnet
- lots of experience on the forums

I was also thinking about a mix and match route with an E36 front for the wing stays if that was possible or maybe an E36 with a M20 engine but am I right in thinking that all the major donor bits need to come from a single vehicle to get an original year plate.

Probably E30/M20 would be my first choice.

Nigel

Nigel

I know I am biased, and not even building a Sportster, but why not consider the E30 with an M50 engine - not the M52: then you have the best of both worlds. If you get the M50 with vanos you have a sliky smooth 24 valve with variable timing, plus electronic ignition - but without the complicated EWS (the requirement to tie the engine management loom in to the fascia dials and key fob).
Even better, with the M50, because it is pre August 1995, you do not need a CAT, so the stated output at 192bhp, is worth an other 10 bhp.

You will still be able to get an age related plate based on the main donor car (E30 if that is what you prefer) as you are allowed two non donor major items - being the engine and gearbox.
Best of both worlds....................??

Mike

[GreatOldOne]

Could you not modify the e30 strut so that you had some mounting studs? Drill through the upright and slide in some threaded rod, which could be welded in place? or would that weaken the upright too much?

[peterux]

Originally Posted by MartinClan

E36 front struts would certainly be better from the wing stay point of view. But the E36 used 5 bolt wheels so, unless you wanted different wheels front and back you would have to find some 4 to 5 stud adapters for the back. Not so major a problem as it might seem as they do exist and, anyway, the back needs spacers with most wheels.

I don't suppose that the DVLA would even notice the fact that the front was E36 and the rear E30.

Robin

...and now i'm wondering if an e30 hub and bearing would fit in an e36 strut? If it does, you could keep all the wheels the same? On the e30, if you by a new front wheel bearing you get the whole bearing and hub so sourcing the bits is easy.
I think if I was starting now, i'd look for a pre 1995 e36 (with m50 engine) as a donor car and I expect that is what Mark would recommend now?
I think e30's are getting too old now to find a good selection of donors to choose from. My M20 is pretty knackered which is why I went for an M54 engine (but that's another story which I wouldn't recommend). Apart from the fiendish electronics I think the whole M54 engine and ancillaries is far too complex and expensive to look after in a kit car.


...peter

[GreatOldOne]

Originally Posted by GreatOldOne

Could you not modify the e30 strut so that you had some mounting studs? Drill through the upright and slide in some threaded rod, which could be welded in place? or would that weaken the upright too much?

Here's what I had in mind - no idea how feasible it would be due to stresses.

[NigelB]

Well, the collar bone, ribs and thumb are all well on the mend now and most importantly I can drive a car again.

So, Peter and Patrick, as you are both fairly close for me, can I accept your kind offers to come and see your Sportsters and pick your brains for a while. Perhaps you could send me a PM or repond on this thread so we can agree a convenient time over the next few weekend or so to get together. It'll be great to see the cars in the flesh after admiring all your picture on the build threads.

Many thanks. Look forward to hearing from you.

Nigel

[peterux]

Originally Posted by NigelB

Well, the collar bone, ribs and thumb are all well on the mend now and most importantly I can drive a car again.

So, Peter and Patrick, as you are both fairly close for me, can I accept your kind offers to come and see your Sportsters and pick your brains for a while. Perhaps you could send me a PM or repond on this thread so we can agree a convenient time over the next few weekend or so to get together. It'll be great to see the cars in the flesh after admiring all your picture on the build threads.

Many thanks. Look forward to hearing from you.

Nigel

Hi Nigel,
PM sent,
...peter

[peterux]

I have had a go at updating the list of builders from recent posts.
Apologies to anyone if I missed by mistake or any updates that I may have missed.

Here is the list updated...

1 - Martinclan, (Robin) Bedfordshire E30 2.5 – now painted Red and picking up awards at local shows
2 - Andy Dane, Bromsgrove, E36 2.5 - SVA passed, and on the road,
seen briefly at Stoneleigh 2010
3 - Peterux - Peter, Uxbridge, E30 2.0 – now painted Lexus Matador red but no sign of life in that old M52 engine
4 - Patrick & Richard, Hampshire, E30 2.5 won the MOC Best Car at Stoneleigh 2009 but now too busy giving interviews to the press – featured in Complete kit Car July/August 2010
5 - Stuart, Asbo Orange - expert on wing stays, and seen at West Country shows
6 - Jason(GOO), Northampton, E30 2.5 Fully IVA passed and Vicki was seen pruning her feathers at Stoneleigh this year :-)
7 - Jeremy, Belfast e30 chassis, e36 engine M50 2.5 - now married, honeymooned and so he’s ‘exhausted’ in the garage but nearly finished
8 - Alfie, somerset. E30 2.5. Engine running, looking for some seats
9 - PJ, from Holland, Cosworth 2.9 v6, moved house and is now painting everything RED-no updates on his website?
10 - Will5, not sure where, E30 2.0 - busy building his extension?
11 - Simon, finished his Marlin Cabrio with E30 2.5 painted silver with new black wheels – Winner of the MOC Best in Show car at Stoneleigh 2010!
12 - Rob Dorey, E36 , SVA'd and on the road and speedo fixed
13 - Mike C, E30 2.5 watching Terry rebuild his sportster - no update??
14 - Mike - M50 based Cabrio – cooling system installed and now designing his dashboard
15 - Son of KDo - Sportster chassis - sold? New owner unknown?
16 - Tim Brierley (Timbo) - built the first and only M52 based Sportster - passed IVA and is currently hand spaying his body
17 - Kieran - 318i based Sportster - stripping and painting the donor parts-no update
18 - Jeremy (Ward)- building a Z3 (M3) based Sportster - rolling chassis with the engine fitted...-no update
19 - David C - Cabrio bulder trying to get IVA'd before 2th April-what happened, David?
20 - Chris Cussens - his Cabrio is IVA'd and painted BRG. If not driving to work in his Cabrio every day can be seen running through Dorset villages
21 - Sorton Jones - North Dorset -dusting off the cobwebs from his chassis and rebuilding his dead 325i Sport into bright new e30 based Sportster
22 – Graham C – e30 325i Sportster built and SVA’d in 2005 painted Jaguar Carnival Red
23- RaasayPhil – Biggar, North Lanarkshire- e30 325i based kit bought 6 years ago but taking his time due to the cold weather to getting the rolling chassis finished and painting his engine
24 - NigelB – e36 Sportster – Kit just ordered from Marlin and itching to gets his M50 engine purring in its new chassis
25 – Spart – Wolverhampton – e30 325i based kit purchased 5 years ago. Had a rest for the last 3 years but now getting the spanners out again!


If you have any updates on your own build or if you want to be added to the list, just let me know.


...peter

[Patrick]

at our new description