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Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Dino 246 Builds and Discussion

Dino 246 Builds and Discussion Da da da da daaa daa da da, ohoho Dino

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  #1  
Old 20th May 2015, 11:52
ozi jim ozi jim is offline
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Default Ozi 206 dino

Hi I have been nosing around on this site so I thought I should put up the next project.

I has given drawings taken from an original car some years ago, these are the main reference.

The originals where a tube chassis I will build an alloy mono chassis riveted.

I dont have the budget for a Ferrari eng so I will use a Nissan VQ30.

I am building the suspension first,wheels then the chassis.
I will work towards the center.

I have made a measuring table to build on.
It has XYZ measuring system.

P3020023.jpg
P3020027.jpg
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  #2  
Old 20th May 2015, 12:25
ozi jim ozi jim is offline
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Front uprights

I made these out of 2mm hot rolled sheet.
It has a yield of 300mpa, bright mild is 200 so it 30% up.

I wanted to make this build a simple as possible so I selected a Toyota Corolla 2010 as a Wheel bearing brake doner.

The 206 runs a 13" wheel so I wanted to get some brakes under it.
The original also had inboard rear disks, I am going out board.

The Toyota has a 275 vented disk, the wheel bearings are hub styles, So front bearing will go on the back and rear to front.
Front disks all round and wilwood calipers all round.

Caliper bracket is attached internally, It is built into the upright to spread the load , I did not want to mount onto any particular panel.
It is 6mm

P5030035.jpg

Main sheet folded to the general shape.
All this is fitted in and out of the jig to keep you on track with the main points
that really count at the end of day.
Center tube and crush tubes go in and fully welded

P5020029.jpg

P5020032.jpg

Side panels, top bottom panels, I have added an extra layer on the top and bottom that ties it in down the side but I have no pic.

P5020034.jpg
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File Type: jpg P5030037.jpg (45.4 KB, 13 views)

Last edited by ozi jim; 20th May 2015 at 12:31..
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  #3  
Old 20th May 2015, 12:36
ozi jim ozi jim is offline
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Have added to the top a bottom plates since but no pic.
Wheel bearing bolts on through the 4 holes.

P5030037.jpg
P5030040.jpg

Last edited by ozi jim; 20th May 2015 at 12:38..
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  #4  
Old 20th May 2015, 12:54
ozi jim ozi jim is offline
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Rear upright, same it has a jig.

I make the panels by hand , I cut them on the band saw.
I dont think its worth laser cutting because you have to make minor adjustments as you go.

The floor is folded.
Crush tubes and center tube.
One side panel
The inner mid floor.
The other side panel
The center box
The back
P5110041.jpg
P5110043.jpg
P5110044.jpg
P5140047.jpg
P5150052.jpg
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  #5  
Old 20th May 2015, 13:01
garyh garyh is offline
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Jim, keep adding photos, just amazes me what can be done...
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  #6  
Old 20th May 2015, 13:04
ozi jim ozi jim is offline
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Thats all for the moment, next I will be doing a wheel center die to cast up the wheel parts.

P5150053.jpg
P5150054.jpg
P5160056.jpg
P5160061.jpg
P5160059.jpg

Jim
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  #7  
Old 20th May 2015, 14:20
garyh garyh is offline
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Jim, is this Tig or Mig?
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  #8  
Old 20th May 2015, 16:34
8 Valve Ed 8 Valve Ed is offline
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I would say it's TIG, I was about to ask something similar. To weld those external corners with MIG is very tricky, but in my experience internal corners with TIG are tricky too, I was wondering if Jim is planing the welding around the external corners.

Jim, do you use TIG for the internal corners, the temporary jig welds look like MIG, although it's hard to tell at the distance.

It's fascinating project, I tend to cut the metal with a thin, 1mm x 125mm grinder, I find it pretty accurate and fast. The only difficulty is narrow slot ends but I usually manage one way or another. Looking very good, well done.
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  #9  
Old 20th May 2015, 22:18
ozi jim ozi jim is offline
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Its all tig.
Tig is way stronger than mig,mig joins by adding material ,tig melts the 2 parent metals together.

With the internal corners you pull the electrode out further and run a little more gas if required.
I can run very short end caps on my tig handle its also water cooled so the handle is half the size of an air cooled handle, so I can run short electrodes to get into tight places'.
I also have another torch that looks like a big pen, it has a swearler in the end for the gas and you can run the electrode out up to 20 mm
The externals is just about running the right amount of amps so you don't under cut.

I use a few more amps than I normally would to get full pen.
If you go to hard the steel bubbles, it must have a higher carbon content or something.

Some welds I just dance over with a sander but I dont grind them back for strength reasons.

Ed I use a band saw to cut the sheets.
Its in pic one.
It is a wood working saw but with bimetal blades it works fine even if a little fast.

Thanks for the encouragement.

Jim

Last edited by ozi jim; 20th May 2015 at 23:38..
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  #10  
Old 21st May 2015, 07:35
Axel Axel is offline
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Hi Jim

amazing!!!

But I thought you want to build a P4? Changed plans?
Anyway, I am really looking forward to the next updates!

Axel

P.S: guys, this fellow has built a stunning alloy GT40 from the scratch...btw!!

.

Last edited by Axel; 21st May 2015 at 07:37..
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  #11  
Old 21st May 2015, 11:40
ozi jim ozi jim is offline
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Hi Axel

Yes change of plans, I have done a fair bit of track work and wanted something more nimble than a P4, the 206 is its small sister.
Also cheaper to build the v12 doubles up on a few things.
I am convinced this will be a better thing.

I had a look at you r progress the other night, its looking really good.

Jim
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  #12  
Old 22nd May 2015, 07:02
Axel Axel is offline
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Jim

Great! Another Dino 206 recreation :-)
are you going to build it as small as it is with 13" wheels or are you scaling it up a bit?
You are a pro and a lot better in metalshaping than me, but if you need any help with dimensions or proportions just let me know.
If you are taking the drawings from the one which is made down under some years ago check its tail...left and right lower parts, if I compare this recreation with the real thing I find some mismatches there, the recreation was to round somehow when you look from the rear.

Thanks for your compliment, I started my build with very few tools, and bought more and more and got better and better...
Many things I would do different now, but that is how it is, I am pretty happy with the proportions of my car although I had to do some compromises because of the GT40 frame it is built on.
I couldn't do the bonnet as low as the real Dino- but I am still happy how it turned out- and some other areas.
It will not be an exact copy of a Dino 206 (remember it is scaled up 5% and has 17" wheels), but surely it will be one of the nicest car here in town when it is ready (in some years ;-)).
At the moment I practise welding before I start to mess up the car. A lot of welding seams ahead!!
Btw, thanks for all your pics and time when I started, it helped a lot!!

Best wishes, Axel
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  #13  
Old 22nd May 2015, 11:56
ozi jim ozi jim is offline
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I will make it to scale.

I was so fortunate a few years ago, I had searched the world for info and had bits a pieces but not enough.

I mentioned this to a customer, he said a friend had built one.
I said you must be thinking of another model, he said no a 206.
I asked for an introduction, I was later given a phone number and rang the man.
This car was built 2 blocks from me.

The guy said when I get the chance I will come and see you.
He did and when he saw the GT40 and we had a chat he told me he would bring some drawings.

A few weeks later he did,I asked how he came by them and the story is he wanted to do a 206 and knew someone who knew someone who owned a 206 but it was in England.

He hoped on a plane and flew over, when they got their it had been sold, but they knew someone else.
So they went to that car and spent 3 days measuring the car.
All this was done in a week ,there and back.

I received all the body profiles , suspension , chassis and casting drawings that he had drawn.

This guy was a master craftsman in fiberglass and mould manufacture, very handy guy.
This was not the only car he had built.

So it is all off an original and I will try to stick as close as I can to it esthetically but mechanical s will be changed to suit me and the budget .
It will be an alloy body not glass.
I have seen notes of mod on the body shapes on the drawings so I will check out the rear.
He did say the original did have one to may vents cut in from the factory as well.
They where probably all different.

Yes more tools is more a problem for my wife than it is for me.
I will need some more for this project.
you do have to make tools as you cant buy some things.

I think your car looks great and proportions are good.
I stopped worrying about perfection a while back,you are the only one who notices because you made it.
Yip and you have one and they dont.

Are you going to tig or OA.
I tiged the 40 but guys keep telling me to OA as the clean up is easier.
I found the clean up with tig weld was a lot of work.

The photo is the car he built and the Ferrari GP car next to it he built that as well, they all ran Ferrari engines.
image.jpg


Jim

Last edited by ozi jim; 22nd May 2015 at 12:02..
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  #14  
Old 22nd May 2015, 12:03
garyh garyh is offline
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OA?
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  #15  
Old 22nd May 2015, 12:31
ozi jim ozi jim is offline
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Oxy Acetylene ,gas welding.

Jim
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  #16  
Old 22nd May 2015, 13:30
Axel Axel is offline
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Jim,
I know the story behind this car, and I found the highlighted area too far away from the original car...




...but it is a great car of course, not just because it has a F engine...

And yes, comparing all available pics from the 206 I have found many different things...they were all handbuilt in the 60ies, of course!

I practise O/A welding and it works quite ok now, but TIG is better for thicker panels, some of mine are thicker, some are thinner...so I will do both!
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  #17  
Old 23rd May 2015, 04:46
rossnzwpi rossnzwpi is offline
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Mightily impressive Jim! I'll be following your build closely. I've always loved the little Dino and have ambitions of building my own Dino-engined car one day. I bought a 2 litre Dino V6 engine about 25 years ago and still have it in storage. The guys from Christchurch/Invercargill/Queenstown who built a stunning 206SP replica asked if they could buy my engine for another replica but I thought it best to hold onto it. Are you familiar with that Chapman replica? They sourced a lot of the drawings from a UK company restoring an original.

Why the Nissan VQ30? Are you mounting it transversely? If not, and the object is to get an inexpensive motor then the VW /Audi V6 with existing gearbox is facing the right way and relatively cheap. The Boxster isn't that outrageously priced either. But if you're after Italian brio to match the car's character then an Alfa V6 mounted transversely with its own gearbox or longitudinally with something like an Audi 01E box will do it for you!
I'll be in Sydney for a conference the last week of June.
All the best
Ross in NZ
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  #18  
Old 23rd May 2015, 09:35
ozi jim ozi jim is offline
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I thought Dave Browne did the NZ Dinos, Barney Tansley made the bodys.

Motor will be north south.
I have an Audi getrag 6 speed for the project.

I am a motor Mechanic so I see a lot come through the door.
The VQ30 was on the best engine list from 95 to 2001.
I think only one other has done that.
They are cheap, it is alloy and it makes good power.
Due to the sump configuration I can drysump it easily.
It also has a timing chain not a belt,it will be eng out to do anything on the front.

Half of my work is euro, they are OK but they are expensive to repair.
I have to admit German engineering shits me ,they just dont know how to do simple,if you could do it with 4 bolts they will use 10 then put something over the top so you have to pull that out as well.
2nd hand they all have high mileage and they leak oil half the time.
Thought about the Italian thing but I am not that concerned, I build for myself I think it will be more reliable to be honest.
I will make it look Ferrari,6 downdraft throttle bodys and turkey pan,correct paint and some dino lettering on the covers.
Body and all externals will be as close as I can get it.

If I build a nut and bolt replica I would have to much invested and not enjoy it Ross.

Jim

Last edited by ozi jim; 23rd May 2015 at 09:48..
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  #19  
Old 24th May 2015, 02:24
rossnzwpi rossnzwpi is offline
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Default engine choice

Then a Nissan V6 makes good sense!
Browsing Trademe.co.nz (a local ebay-type auction site) just now I came across a Mondial complete for NZ$5000 - which is quite astonishing. I believe Cascu on this forum uses these as a basis for 246GT replicas. The rebuild on that engine would cost more than your whole project probably!

Yes the Chapman car was built by Dave Brown at Classic Car Developments in Invercargill with bodywork by Barney Tansley of Queenstown. I visited them about 20 yrs ago and I'm sure they had more than one chassis in progress....
I'll try and attach a few photos. I wonder where the car is now?
http://tansleypanels.com/




best of luck with your project
cheers
Ross in Auckland, NZ
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  #20  
Old 24th May 2015, 02:33
rossnzwpi rossnzwpi is offline
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Oh, and some chassis pics:






not sure where the photos I took myself are - if I ever find them I'll post them too
cheers
Ross in NZ
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