Another Cordite Is Born ...

[Paul L]

Mister Towed & Viatron - Thanks chaps & I appreciate the offer Mac.

But at it turned out, the only thing I did this afternoon was find the right box with this in it...



This is the 1 inch block & matching studs that I bought from Rimmer Bros probably a year ago now.

When AndyP57 didn't fit one to his Cordite demonstrator I thought could get away without it.
( As part of me really didn't want to play with the original Spitfire suspension at all. )

I actually thought the Silver Navigator looked OK, even if it was riding a bit high compared to others.
So hopefully this will improve things a bit more and I think I will be happy with that.
Even though I do accept that a larger block might provide a more racing car stance.

Now looking like I might be able to play outside on Sunday afternoon (weather permitting).

Cheers, Paul.

[Paul L]

Sunday:
Most of the day was taken up by a family trip to a Safari Park which was good.
( We had free tickets which had to be used before the end of May. )



But when we finally got home, my wife helped me to flip over the Spitfire rear section.
You will see I started off using axle stands before they collapsed on my sloping drive (again ).
So I ended up just resting it on a dust sheet on the ground, this was before...









I then spent 2 hours with the angle grinder removing paint, rust & under seal.
My hands are still a bit numb as I am typing this up, but I'm pleased with the results....









Then I applied a liberal coating of Kurust everywhere to treat the metal...





The blue / black areas give you an idea of the section I hope to keep as one piece.
As I will be cutting the floor pans out from both sides before I try to use it.

I am just waiting for the Kurust to dry out, before I put everything away for the night.
With a bit of luck I will be able to put some paint over the top during the week.

I also need to taken my second shower of the day as this was seriously filthy work.

Until next time, take care, Paul.

[Viatron]

You certainly pack in the hours Paul! At this rate youll be finished before me :-(

[Paul L]

Viatron - I am pretty sure you will be on the road before me Mac!
As you clearly know what you are doing and have made great progress to date.

As for the hours, it is clear I need to start racking them up if I want to make some progress.
But it is the weather, rather that the engineering challenges that will be the end of me.

Got home from work last night & the sky was dark & rain looked imminent.
So I couldn't risk removing the tarpaulin to start painting the underside of the rear arches.
After last years "summer" I really need a run of dry weather to work in.

I know your frame is still under construction...



But it the plan to fit it directly to the chassis without the "rubber rings" in between?

Cheers, Paul.

[Mister Towed]

I wouldn't worry about the rubber washers - NVH (noise, vibration and harshness) isn't exactly a Sammio strong suit.

After all, the real fun with these cars is feeling that you're part of the machine, hearing, feeling and smelling all the components doing their stuff. Totally the opposite of a modern car where you're completely detached from the action, even at 155mph.

Btw, how're you planning to fit your floors? On the Spyder the frame sandwiches the floor between it and the chassis, then you 'glass the inside of the body to the floor to give it strength.



Just a thought...

[Paul L]

Mister Towed - Cheers, I'll happily leave the "rubber rings" off if that is what everyone else does.
As for being part of the driving experience in a Sammio, it sounds like it will be a 4 wheeled motorcycle.

As for the floor, I had already prepared some words covering that in the post below.
But basically the Cordite frame wraps around the chassis in the middle.



This appears to be different to the Spyder frame work & the new Navigator frame.

So the order of parts will be...
Chassis + Frame + Floor + Hand Brake Panel

This is the best photo I have (and it is not great) with the fibre glass floor roughly in place...



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Tuesday:
Both my wife & I had tough days at work, so a family trip to the local curry house was in order.
But as the sun was still shining when we go back, I got changed, pulled off the tarpaulin & got out the bitumen paint…

Spitfire Rear Wheel Arch Section:
I just needed to make sure I put a dust sheet underneath, as I've already got black paint on the driveway.

Before:
( Although the Kurust dries black so it is not so easy to see. )



After:







I know it is just the first coat, but it still nice to see something heading in the right direction.

Although it will be dark by the time I get back out to put the tarpaulin back over the top.

Top Tip:
Whilst a good face mask keeps the paint fumes out, it also keeps the curry & beer fumes in.

Rear Internal Framework - Planned Modification:
I have also been looking back at the work I did to make the separate hand brake panel fit over the frame.
The panel needed a lot of cutting before it would slot over the box section forming a cross bracing triangle.





This time around I am going to cut that section of the frame out & weld in a new section at a different angle.

Which means it must be time for another one of my dodgy sketches…

( This represents a section of the frame on the passenger side, looking from the front of the car to the back. )



With this mod, the hand brake panel you see above would sit flush against the frame without any cutting.
So hopefully I should be able to keep this hand brake panel attached to the rear floor / arches section.

However, I still need to work out where exactly I can cut the rear section to keep as much intact as possible.

As this forms part of my "treading through" the frame issue:
- The mounting points at the back of the internal frame will need to sit on top of the rear arches section.
- Whereas the frame work will need to be underneath the hand brake section to sit on the chassis.
Although technically, it will need to sit on top of the lowered floor pans which will be sitting on the frame.

So as I was explaining to Mr T above, I need to co-ordinate the frame, floors & rear arches section.

I'll go though some more thoughts on the floors another day.

Cheers, Paul.

[Paul L]

Just a quick follow up to yesterday's post about the chassis/frame/floor/rear arches section...

Lowered Floor Pans:
As previously mentioned, AndyP57 supplied me with a pair of these...



The good news is that these floors could actually be welded to the internal frame at the contact points.
This should add extra strength to the floor, before the body shell is then bonded / fibre glassed into place.

The only down side is the slope profile is the same as the fibre glass ones which was an issue for my seats.
The back of which have a fixed recline built in when they are sitting level, which the slope exaggerates.

Again, I previously posted this dodgy sketch of the issue a while back…



By comparison, I did test fit my seats in the original Spitfire floors as part of my "fast build" mock up…



Obviously the original Spitfire floor is lowered, but horizontal, which seems to be a big help.
So I will have another look at the new floor pans and where they fit within the chassis & frame work.
I'll then finally decide whether to alter the floors, or just bite the bullet & change the seats…

Alternative Seat Options:
Whilst it would be slightly annoying to replace the seats I have already have, it might be the easiest solution.

I have already spend some time looking at alternatives and they fall into two different "styles":
- Traditional classic car type seats with a low, but non reclined, back (similar to what I have now).
- Modern bucket seats with some head support & guide holes built in for a 4 point harness.

Not this particular version, but the same kind of thing...



Clearly the bucket seats would "stick out" higher than both the sides & back of the Cordite bodywork.
Which is why I think they may work as an "obvious" modern addition to my "1950s sports car".
Or they may look terrible & I will be shunned by the Sammio / Ribble community for being a heretic.

Either way, lots to think about & its funny one decision can have a knock on impact on so many more.

Until next time, take care, Paul.

[Viatron]

Seats are something i have been thinking about lately as well Paul, i have a set of mini bucket seats circa 1970 but also have the original seats that came with my donor, im more of a mind to modify the donor seats for width etc so i can retain the adjustable rear rake.

[Mister Towed]

Paul, would you put your classic, low back bucket seats in a WRX Imprezza?

Or do you think that, perhaps, they just wouldn't look right somehow...

[Viatron]

:-)

[Mister Towed]

Cobra seats should fit, but thoroughly check the dimensions against your cockpit. These from Europa are more upright than most which would compensate for your angled floors.

https://www.europaspares.com/product..._Srroad01.html

They also do basic reclining sports car seats btw.

[garyh]

Can't you just add shims to the back, or weld some blocks in place.

[Paul L]

Wednesday:
Once again a cold dull day brightened up by the time I got home.
So I put a second coat of paint on the under side of the Spitfire rear arch section.
No photos as they would obviously look just the same as yesterday's photos!

Viatron, Mr T & GaryH - Thanks for the replies chaps.
I know bucket seats would stick out like a sore thumb.
I also know that the floors could be adjusted to work.
But I already have a very long list of adjustments required.

AndyP57 was describing the new Navigator vs. the old Cordite the other day...

Originally Posted by AndyP57

... you should end up working with the kit and not fighting it...

So I guess this has become about picking my battles.
I really would like to reach the re-body inspection stage before the "summer" is gone.
Because, as I've said before, the winter months are not great for bonding & fibre glassing.

However, after what has seemed like forever, I am slowly fixing my build plan.

So until next time, take care, Paul.

[Paul L]

Even though it sunny when I got home, I had to cut the grass & do some pruning.
I managed to take one photo (see below) & before I knew it, it was raining.
Still, makes a change to get wet trying to tidy up after gardening, instead of after working on the car.

Seats vs. Lowered Floor Pans - More Thoughts:
Before I did anything rash in terms of buying bucket seats I thought I'd better double check the metal floors.
There was little room to spare in the fibre glass versions when I first test fitted a seat a few months ago…



So I dragged one of the metal floor pans & a seat out of the summer house to try the same test again…



Thankfully, the 'cut out' width in the metal floors is the same size (just under 46cm) as the fibre glass one.

Which makes these seats on Ebay (which made me consider buckets in the first place) a tad too wide…



So my next step will be to have another look at the space available to fit the driver's side floor pan.
If I can get the lowered 'cut out' as close to both the front & inside as possible, my current seat might fit OK.
As based on test fitting the passenger side seat, the inside curve of the rear cockpit can get in the way a bit.
If I still need to steal an odd cm or two, I might remove the runners & bolt the seat directly to the floor itself.

Then, if all else fails, I will be left with a simple choice to either alter the floor, or change the seats.
A bit more searching lead me to these seats which seem to be narrow enough to fit & look pretty good too…



I also realised there is yet another area I need to resolve as part of fitting the seats / floor…

Internal Frame vs. Rear Bodywork / Hump:
I've already mentioned the problem I have with the frame pressing against the body work / hump…



There is no simple fix, as both door cut outs in the body fit tight against the internal framework around them.
( So you can't move the body's position without removing the all the door frame work on both sides. )



Which means the Cordite body shell & internal frame work are effectively at an impasse.

In addition, I was planning to attach a section of plywood in front of the frame to build a rear cockpit panel.
But this would actually create an even bigger gap between the rear bodywork lip & the inside of the cockpit.

So I think I will have to cut off, extend & re-attach the body work at the rear of the cockpit, including the hump.
I know lots of Spyder builders have made similar cuts in their bodywork & rejoined everything successfully.

If you have been following the changes to the Navigator MkII mould, you will know there are alignment issues.
At this point, following my "pick your battles" approach to getting this car build, I will have some "wonky" bits.
I am certainly not going to attempt the wholesale changes required to make everything line up perfectly.

However, I did like the look of something CharmanTech has done under his hump on his G46…



If I have to remove the "face" of the hump anyway, then this would make it easier to fit plywood underneath.
I am also considering building the rear cockpit panel up by trimming & fitting plywood inside the internal framework.
I would then cover this "Mock Tudor" wall with fibreglass in the usual way to tie in the bodywork & the floor.

Other Odds & Ends
A couple of other things that will be related to the stuff above is the seat belt mounts & the 2nd hump.
I think the 3 point harness will be the most straight forward to fit as each seat just needs two mounting points.
( I will re-use the existing mounting points either side of the hand brake. )

I asked AndyP57 about the spare hump and he confirmed that all the humps made to fit the "driver's side".
Which means if I want to fit it, there will be a shed load of work to do, similar to CarNoob's approach.
So for now, I am going to concentrate on other priorities & come back to this at a later date.

With a bit of luck I will get some decent time on the car over the Bank Holiday weekend.

Cheers, Paul.

[Viatron]

Paul if you wanted to cut the rear face off i have some sheet fibreglass i laid up going spare for the price of postage, it was laid up for our racer before we went carbon composite.
Check with Andy but im pretty sure that phase 2 of the navigator refresh will be moulds for sided humps which may help with your humping issues (fnar fnar), obviously with the rework means the passenger side hump wont be a perfect fit but it will surely fit better than trying to get a drivers side one to fit the passenger side?
.

[Paul L]

Viatron - Thanks again for another kind offer Mac, but I have a lot of fibre glass stuff in the shed.
( Not that I have ever worked with any of this stuff before, but I will give it a go. )

- - - - - - - - - - - -

In the end, I only had a little time outside on the car today in the early evening....

I started by measuring & marking where I was going to move the bracing on the rear frame.
I also put some more thought into where the seat belt mounting plates would need to go.
I now have a plan for both behind the seat & to the side, but need the seat in place for a final check.

In the mean time I started cutting some the box section needed for the rear frame.

This is the new bracing angle and the cardboard templates I used to check the angles...



In keeping with the rest of the frame work, the two sides are not exactly the same.

I've also started on some of the box sections I will need for the rear seat belt mounting plate...



( I'll try to put a quick sketch of the basic plan up tomorrow. )

I want to trim the metal floor pans to fit tomorrow, but this will need to be a two step process.
First I need to cut out the cross brace section that will be replaced with the angled sections above.
Then I can get the floors in place even though they will need a further trim around the new sections.
It is just that I want to see where the seats end up compared to the body before I remove the frame to start welding it.

Then I will remove the frame from the chassis & bring it into the rear garden for the welding.
( As I don't want to expose any people passing by to the welding arc light. )

Although as I moved the floor pan around today, I noticed, it needs some more welding.
As daylight was peaking through a selection of small holes in the existing welds...



Use of Heat Gun on Fibreglass Body:
At some point I will go around the Cordite body shell with an electric DIY paint stripping gun.
This follows a debate on Misted Towed's build thread about "voids".

Personally, I think my body has a few issues that hopefully Mr T will have avoided.

This is how one section of my body looked when it was delivered...



But the recent rounds of putting the body on and off have caused more damage...





In both cases, it seems the gel coat has not bonded to the fibreglass behind it.
Especially in the photo above, as there is a big gap between the layers without using any heat.

But that is a problem for another day, as I need to get some sleep now.

Hopefully I've have a bigger update tomorrow, Paul.

[Paul L]

Sunday - Part 1
First job of the day was making a pair of cardboard templates for the metal floor pans...



As before, I used the "hole" from the middle to work out where they would fit.
I started on the driver's side, where I wanted the hole as far forward/inside as possible...



But when I went to check the distance to the rear frame work, I came up short...
( With the hole in this position, the back of the floor would be in mid air. )



The edges of the steel floors are not as deep as the original fibre glass ones...



Not quite the start to the day I was hoping for.
After several attempts at repositioning the "hole" it was clear I had a problem.
If the floor edges reached the frame, then the seat would never work.

At this point, I think I had a real break through in my approach.
Mister Towed often suggests I just do it and so I made my choice.
I know where I need the seat, so I will add an extra bracket to the frame work.
This will support the rear of the floor & I will fibre glass over the gap.
That was it, no more indecision, make a choice and move on.

Unfortunately, my optimism was sorely tested when I switched to the passenger side.
As I test fitted the cardboard template, it was clear that the back would reach the frame???

After a bit of head scratching & a long session with the tape measure the answer was clear.
The passenger side frame work is not square & there is a 4 cm difference on one side.

This is the front frame rail on the driver's side (Spitfire bulk head still in place)...



And this is the passenger side and the gap to the bulk head is clear...



Decision made, cut this floor to fit the frame as it is & hope the seat will work.
But there was no point in finishing the template now as I was about to modify the frame.
So instead the body work came off & I unbolted the rear frame work.
With the frame put to one side, I packed everything away & relocated to the rear garden.
I had to get my wife's help to move the frame through the house to the patio.
I then took it to the back of the garden myself (no danger of hitting anything on the way).



Then it was the moment of truth, my first "real" welding job...

This was the cross brace on the passenger side that I was replacing.
( To allow the hand brake panel from the rear arches to sit better on the frame. )



I simply removed it with my angle grinder...



Then it was time to clamp the piece I had prepared earlier into place...



And this is the finished job after I have given the welds a bit of a clean up...



I did the "hit it with a big hammer" test and it is going no where.

Sad though it may seem, at this point, this was going through my head...

[Voice Over Man] Paul has welded some box section to his frame and now he is feeling EPIC! [/MoneySupermarket]



Next up was the driver's side, before...



During...



After...



At this point my daughters were desperate for me to put up the "Circus Tent" for them to play in.
Well it was a lovely day & I have turned the Summerhouse into a car parts warehouse.
So together we finally worked out the limited instructions and got the thing up...



I don't think my wife had imagined it was going to be as big as it is.
So I'm not sure it will be allowed on the front drive unless it is for a very short time.
( We will be packing it back up tomorrow as the rain is expected on Tuesday. )

That's it for Part 1, I'll be back with Part 2 in a minute.

Cheers, Paul.

[Paul L]

Sunday - Part 2

Right, back with the build, next up fitting the driver's side floor pan.
I used my cardboard template to mark up the steel, before cutting it out with my jigsaw...



And then it simply slotted into place...



At which point I wanted to test fit the seat, just to see what I was up against...



As expected, the rear of the seat hits the back of the frame...



Which in turn prevents the bottom of the seat runners from touching the floor...



The reality is that the seat runners will not work anyway, so I removed them...



For now, I've put the bolts back into the base just so I don't lose them...



Which means that the seats will actually sit lower than this when fitted.
The good news is that even at this higher level, they fit OK...



With a nice gap between the back of the seat & the frame...



All I needed to do now was cut a length of box section to fit and weld it in...



This should provide a bit of extra support to the floor (this also passed the hammer test).

Then I trimmed the cardboard template for the passenger side's floor to fit the new frame layout...



Quickly followed by trimming the steel floor to match.
The only problem I had was my jigsaw kept "spitting out" the blades.
So I used my angle grinder for the last bit of cutting required & test fitted it...



I knew fitted a seat on this side would be harder & in order for the back to fit like this...



Note:
I have trimmed the inside edge of the driver's floor to match the curve of the frame / chassis.
I will do the same thing to the passenger floor tomorrow.

The front of the seat will need to hang over the lip in the floor...



This means added a few spacers under the front mounting bolts.

I want to weld up the "holes" in both of the steel floors.

This is want the professional welding looks like in one area...



I decided to do some test welding on some of the floor off cuts first...



I didn't tidy up these welds, but I found a good setting to use & this is a solid join.

At which point I noticed I was coming to the end of my welding wire...



( I will go and get another reel first thing in the morning. )

As it had just gone 6pm, it was time to stop the angle grinder noises anyway.
It took me the best part of an hour to put everything away ready for tomorrow...



( If you look closely, you can see the frame tucked out of the way for the night. )

Then it was shower, time with the family & meal with my wife, before finally getting to type this up now.
So it has been a very long day, but a very productive one, so I am a happy boy.

Until next time, take care, Paul.

[Mister Towed]

Nice work Paul, keep it up and your car will start coming together before you know it.

Welding isn't so hard after all, is it.

[Paul L]

Mister Towed - You have no idea how happy I was when my welding passed the hammer test.
Your "can do" approach to all the new skills you have learnt while building your car really helps me.

Ironically, the fact that the internal framework is "wonky" in places is actually encouraging me as well.
I can stop worrying about perfection, when "near enough" seems to have been the factory standard.

Finally, I'm really glad that you are pressing on with your painting & I am looking forward to seeing it done.
It is clear to me that your body shell is definitely a much higher quality product compared to mine.
Which means that I will have to take a heat gun to it at some point (although I am not looking forward to that).

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Sunday Supplement:
There is one other thing I want to cover following yesterday's work...

I had seen this photo of the new Navigator MkII body shell under development on Viatron's thread...



I think the deep lip around the rear cockpit looks really good compared to the photos of mine I took yesterday...



This "step" was already cut into the rear cockpit lip when the kit was originally delivered...



So if I end up cutting this section out to fit the body work over the frame I will try to make the lip deeper all around.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Right, I have a few domestic things to take care of before I can work on the car, so I'd better go.

Cheers, Paul.