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Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Sammio Builds and discussions

Sammio Builds and discussions Sammio bodied car builds and specials

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  #221  
Old 2nd February 2017, 22:05
rochdaleGT rochdaleGT is offline
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even in the mentioned countries it would be ok with triumph-sammio. dont trust what people ask, because their local mot-tester prefers it this way.
mot-testers often think differtn, because they dont knwo the laws. as they think they are "god" peopel follow their instructions blind, even the law tells different.

the laws are easy and clear...but often unknown to the mot-testers, finally everybody is confused because nobody knows the real direction. things are done by "hearsay", but not by the real laws, hence everyone goes their own way, even it wouldnt be necessary.

like a VW buggy....a VW Beetle is a VW beetle and a buggy on a beetle chassis is a VW buggy...or buggy

Last edited by rochdaleGT; 2nd February 2017 at 22:07..
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  #222  
Old 2nd February 2017, 22:21
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No ones arguing that point Rochy Baby ...

I have found the system so straight forward for NON IVA cars like the S*mmio , Miglia , Tributes etc. that it's not a problem to get the changes sorted and keep things 'correct'

I cannot comment on other peoples decisions though ...it's up to them what they do and if someone chooses to buy a car of this nature , its their responsibility to satisfy themselves on what paperwork works for them .
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  #223  
Old 2nd February 2017, 22:37
rochdaleGT rochdaleGT is offline
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for the blue one above, its a problem as i have heard the car went abroad and there are problems with re-registering.

Last edited by rochdaleGT; 2nd February 2017 at 22:40..
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  #224  
Old 2nd February 2017, 22:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rochdaleGT View Post
foe the blue one above, i have heard its a problem that its still running as herald.
Well , either stay clear if you aren't happy or discuss amending it with the seller and possibly putting a deposit on the car to secure it whilst the changes are made ?
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  #225  
Old 2nd February 2017, 22:44
rochdaleGT rochdaleGT is offline
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lol...too late...that car has been already sold last year (not to me)
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  #226  
Old 2nd February 2017, 23:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rochdaleGT View Post
lol...too late...that car has been already sold last year (not to me)
So what is your big interest in all this then? You seem to think you know more than the two professionals that have answered your questions. If that is the case just do yours your way and not try and wind people up.
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  #227  
Old 3rd February 2017, 00:04
rochdaleGT rochdaleGT is offline
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the case is to bring some light into the dark "grey-zone" of registration procedures and laws.
i think there is nothing to hide if all has been done the legal way?

why i´m winding up people, if i ask questions how and why this car has been registered in the way it was registered?

any info here will help future builders, also potential buyers, whetehr they are from UK or abroad.

Last edited by rochdaleGT; 3rd February 2017 at 00:10..
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  #228  
Old 3rd February 2017, 06:55
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OK, I know I shouldn't, but here goes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rochdaleGT View Post
… the case is to bring some light into the dark "grey-zone" of registration procedures and laws…

any info here will help future builders, also potential buyers, whetehr they are from UK or abroad.
rochdaleGT - Really?

What information that actually helps anyone have you provided exactly?

If anything, you have added to the confusion.

As this is the second thread where you seem to keep confusing UK rules with German ones.
( The Miglia thread being the other. )

Generally, the law for buying things in the UK is summed up simply as "caveat emptor", or "buyer beware".

The exception being that the seller must "describe and represent the car fairly and accurately to the potential buyer".

So in this case, Micky1mo described the car in the advert and clearly stated the car was registered as a Triumph Herald.

Which leads to Lancelot Link's point that if you (as a potential buyer) are not happy with that, then don't buy it.

If the UK seller has done nothing wrong and the buyer then a problem with the rules in their country, whose fault it that?

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Which brings me back to why you are confusing things, rather than helping…

Quote:
Originally Posted by rochdaleGT View Post
...can anybody also explain me why some sammios are named "sammio", "triumph sammio" "herald-sammio"...which imo would be the correct way to do it...
In short, because there is no correct way to do this, regardless of your opinion.

This was the official view of the DVLA that I was given...

"Please give the vehicle name you think best describes the vehicle"

So my car is correctly registered in the UK as a Triumph Swordfish.

Unfortunately, there was not enough space available on the V5C to call it a Triumph Swordfish 1500.

However, I could actually have called it a Swordfish 1500, with no reference to Triumph what so ever.

As this is what IanA did with his Z300S, which has no reference to either the BMW Z3 donor car, or the Tribute kit used.



So what exactly is the problem with the fact his UK based car is correctly registered in the UK as a Z300S Barchetta?

The bottom line is that you can happily call your own UK car a triumph-sammio or a herald-sammio if you want.

But please don't tell people this is the "correct way" as you clearly do not know what you are talking about.

Cheers, Paul.
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  #229  
Old 3rd February 2017, 07:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rochdaleGT View Post
for the blue one above, its a problem as i have heard the car went abroad and there are problems with re-registering.
Registering a kit car abroad is always going to be plagued with issues there's loads in holland still on uk plates? I see for sale on a regular basis ....if you want something that steps out of the rules be prepared to fudge things a little to get the car u want on the road

Last edited by redratbike; 3rd February 2017 at 09:23..
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  #230  
Old 3rd February 2017, 08:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rochdaleGT View Post
nope-its exactly the opposite: a car named as triumph herald is contra-productive, as the car isnt a herald anymore. or does a sammio look like a herald?

if its named triumph-sammio, that would be perfect...as its clearly identifyable that its a triumph base/chassis which has been re-bodied.
I think RochdaleGT makes an extremely valid point here - I've lost count of the times this very issue has been a real problem for me when I'm out and about driving my Sammio Spyder.

Indeed, in this picture, what the camera failed to capture was that when we left the Italian car gathering, this angry mob were all chanting over and over again as one:

"OY! THE VEHICLE YOU ARE DRIVING CLEARLY PURPORTS TO BE THE 162MPH, 1953 LANCIA D24 RACING CAR THAT WAS VICTORIOUS IN THE 1954 MILLE MIGLIA, PILOTED BY ALBERTO ASCARI, WHICH COMPLETED THE 1,000 MILES IN A REMARKABLE TIME OF JUST ELEVEN HOURS, TWENTY-SIX MINUTES AND TEN SECONDS AT AN AVERAGE SPEED OF 88.5MPH, MORE THAN THIRTY MINUTES AHEAD OF SECOND PLACED VITTORIO MARZOTTO IN A SCUDERIA FERRARI 500 MONDIAL, BUT WE'VE SEEN THE V5 AND IT SAYS THAT IT IS, IN FACT, A SAMMIO SPYDER, WHATEVER THAT IS, SO WE FEEL CONFUSED AND ANGRY AT THE CLEAR DECEPTION WE HAVE BEEN SUBJECTED TO!

WHAT DO WE WANT?

A DETAILED EXPLANATION OF THE LEGISLATION GOVERNING REGISTRATION OF REBODIED CLASSIC CARS ACROSS ALL SOVEREIGN STATES OF THE UNITED NATIONS!

WHEN DO WE WANT IT?

NOW!"



We had to make off at speed and were lucky to escape with our lives as the mob gathered pitchforks and blazing torches and began to march on us.

And it's an issue that doesn't just plague the UK, but is repeated on a daily basis across the known world. In this picture you can see two members of the advanced guard of another angry mob who have discovered that the vehicle documentation relating to this Tribute 250 SWB doesn't accurately reflect the appearance or true origins of the vehicle. The picture also doesn't show the enormous angry crowd gathered just out of shot, who are all chanting something similar to the above, but in a combination of French, German and Italian as it's clearly somewhere in The Alps, or Johnny Foreigner Land as it's known in the UK.

Oh, and as an edit, I've just noticed the other three people in shot who are so angry at the deception that they've turned their backs on the car and are pissing in the gutter in disgust.



So, RochdaleGT makes some very valid points. How do we address the serious issue of there being some slight ambiguity in the regulations as applied in the UK and abroad? Will we ever be able to drive our cars in safety again? Only time will tell...

Last edited by Mister Towed; 3rd February 2017 at 08:13..
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  #231  
Old 3rd February 2017, 08:37
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Towed, thank you for brightening my morning, perhaps I should consider rear facing flame throwers on my build?
ps Gary did my paperwork - no problems
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  #232  
Old 3rd February 2017, 20:11
rochdaleGT rochdaleGT is offline
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the car was already sold nearly 1 year ago.....so it has nothing to do with me, nor with any intense that i would like to buy it....

just to add anothercomment to the registration issue:

who would be "hurt" if the cars would be correctly named after they have been converted from a "normal" triumph to a sammio/ribble/tribute or whatever?
nobody in UK, i guess? ....but it would help people outside UK to re-register such cars properly.

i´m sure there is a straightforward rule in UK how such cars should be named. unfortunately the registration / administrative process has to do with people who dont know the rules properly, nor their supervisor is checking them , hence they decide by interpretion, hence one car is named poppeye, the other one tom&jerry.

Last edited by rochdaleGT; 3rd February 2017 at 20:21..
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  #233  
Old 3rd February 2017, 20:30
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Well said. I think...
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  #234  
Old 3rd February 2017, 20:34
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As far as I am aware there are no rules how the cars should be named, it's down to each individual builder to choose the name...
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  #235  
Old 3rd February 2017, 20:41
Jeff H Jeff H is offline
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Rochdale,

We do consider our selfs lucky in this country that we can modify and build cars to our own style and design.

We do have to jump thru a few hoops if we go overboard, things like IVA can be expensive and quite technical to pass, this is why the re body and glue on kits are doing so well.

Our DVLA are a lot more approachable nowadays, possibly because of the closures of so many local branches.

Their are some very knowledgeable and helpful people on here, most have done the registration process for their own builds so the cars are legal in the eyes of the law.

It may well be different in your Country but if their is any info you want or need just ask, some body will usually be able to help.

Are you thinking of buying a kit from here in the UK ? and are worried regarding registration in your Country ?
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  #236  
Old 4th February 2017, 08:50
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rochdaleGT - In fairness, I would have no hope of posting questions in German on a German forum.

But, even allowing for something getting lost in translation, I have to ask….

Why ask questions on a UK forum if you can not, or will not, understand the answers you are given in English?

As this is what winds people up and creates the impression you are nothing more than a Troll.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rochdaleGT View Post
...i´m sure there is a straightforward rule in UK how such cars should be named…
Yes there is and I've already told you what it is, I even highlighted it blue in my previous post above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
This was the official view of the DVLA that I was given...

"Please give the vehicle name you think best describes the vehicle"
So, unfortunately, you are completely wrong if you think there is an official rule to ensure a "correct" name.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rochdaleGT View Post
… unfortunately the registration / administrative process has to do with people who dont know the rules properly, nor their supervisor is checking them , hence they decide by interpretion, hence one car is named poppeye, the other one tom&jerry…
In this case, you are the person who doesn't know the rules properly.

Despite this, you are happy to insult both the people in the DVLA who are doing their jobs properly and their supervisors too?

There is no need for DVLA staff to use "interpretation", because builders are given freedom of choice (within reason) to name their car what they like.

So the reason similar looking cars have different names is that the UK rules allow this to happen.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rochdaleGT View Post
...who would be "hurt" if the cars would be correctly named after they have been converted from a "normal" triumph to a sammio/ribble/tribute or whatever?
nobody in UK, i guess? ....but it would help people outside UK to re-register such cars properly...
Unless someone is building a kit car specifically for the export market, why should they care about the rules of other countries?

As it is hard enough to make sure that we follow the rules over here to keep the car legal in the UK.

Similarly, I know there are cars for sale in other parts of the world that can not be imported and legally registered in the UK.

( For example a heavy modified American hot rod that would fall outside of the UK's 8 point rule. )

By your logic, I should be complaining on US forum that builders over there are not making my life in the UK easier.

I spent over 4 years building my car in difficult circumstance and absolutely love the fact I was able to legally register it as a Triumph Swordfish.

So I'm sorry if you think I am somehow being selfish by doing this, but in all honestly it has nothing to do with you.

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And finally, just for fun, as I am frankly bored senseless by all of this nonsense…

Another reason your "correct" name logic doesn't work is because the UK rules allow multiple donor cars/parts.

For example, what is the correct name the following car?

It has the chassis from one of these:



One engine from one of these:



A second engine from another one of these:



The interior includes an old sofa:



The exterior body work includes part of a canoe:



This car is still under construction, but is shaping up nicely.



Thankfully, it will not be called "Austin/Jaguar/Jaguar/Sofa/Canoe/Other Stuff".

Instead it will simply called "Medusa" based on the LPG conversion pipework.



This car sums up all that is great about our hobby in the UK and I am glad our rules allow it.

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I really hopes this helps.

Cheers, Paul.
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  #237  
Old 4th February 2017, 08:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miked View Post
towed, thank you for brightening my morning
+1

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  #238  
Old 4th February 2017, 09:28
rochdaleGT rochdaleGT is offline
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@paul:

i´m driving / collecting british (kit)cars since around 15 years...so i know how things work.

the mentioned example from you is a different matter:
its a chassis from something and lots of bits and pieces from other cars collected in 1 car. i dont know how it has been registered, but this "parts-bin" looks like a q-plate, hence the name isnt important.

i dont know how many kitcars i have owned in the past 15 years, including all the kitcars imported for friends, plus watching all the other people´s imported kitcars let me say: a high percentage had incorrect paperwork and they had been illegally registered in UK. (v5c´s taken form scrapped cars -same brand- to bring cars on the road avoiding sva/iva. v5c´s taken from scrapped cars -other brand- to bring cars on the road. cars still running on donor papers, even they have been built after 1996, where SVA came into force. rebodied cars which never have been announced to dvla as rebodies, newly factory built kitcars with a new chassis, new body, ford rear axle and triumph engine with an age related plate-even it should be a q-plate-etc, etc).
lots of dodgy registrations out there.

its clear that nobody in UK will built a car to foregin rules...i never demanded nor critisized that...
but is it forbidden to ask "how it was possible to achieve a certain kind of registration"? or did i strike a nerve here?
it also seems that even british-people had been concerned about this BMW-sammio and its future registration:

3rd posting "Good luck getting that through IVA!"

and i must come back again to the sellers statement:

"The V5 (log book) still reads Triumph Herald but the engine details have been updated and read correctly, so if it's going for export it will be easier to register in Europe as a Triumph but if it stays in UK then I will help with the correct UK registration. "

i thought it is correctly registered?

Last edited by rochdaleGT; 4th February 2017 at 10:11..
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  #239  
Old 4th February 2017, 10:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rochdaleGT View Post
…i know how things work…
[Pantomime]



"Oh no you don't!"

[/Pantomime]



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Quote:
Originally Posted by rochdaleGT View Post
…its clear that nobody in UK will built a car to foregin rules...i never demanded nor critisized that...
But you did criticise DVLA staff for not following the rules, when you clearly do not know what those rules are.

However, despite my attempts to explain this, you still refuse to acknowledge your mistake, or apologise for your insult.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rochdaleGT View Post
… lots of dodgy registrations out there …
Agreed.

So why don't you just steer clear of the ones you don't believe have followed the rules and leave the rest of us in peace?

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Instead, here we are in 2017, with you picking holes in the precise wording of an advert for a car that was for sale in 2015.



Perhaps you should go for a nice drive in one of your cars until you calm down a bit.

Cheers, Paul.

PS
Micky1Mo - My apologies for extending this hijiack of your build thread.
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  #240  
Old 4th February 2017, 10:57
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Talking of changing names, there was a "vehicle" that used to be registered on this forum called "Micha". He once wrote a very similar sentence to this -

Quote:
Originally Posted by rochdaleGT View Post
@paul:
i dont know how many kitcars i have owned in the past 15 years, including all the kitcars imported for friends, plus watching all the other people´s imported kitcars......
It sttrikes me that Rochdale GT might be a cut and shut.
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