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Go Back   Madabout Kitcars Forum > Mad Build Area > Sammio Builds and discussions

Sammio Builds and discussions Sammio bodied car builds and specials

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  #1  
Old 4th January 2014, 11:14
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Default BMW powered Sammio

I have now been able to return to my BMW powered Ribble Pilot project and thought I would up-date the thread,
Only to realize I actualy never started one

So if your interested please read on.

Standard Triumph herald chassis and running gear with standard Ribble Pilot kit.
The brakes will be up-rated with type 16 calipers and remote servo.



The power plant donor was 1996 BMW Series 3, 1.8i, fitted with a hot cam so making around 120bhp.
Note the E30 standard sump has been removed as it's too big to fit between the chassis rails. This is to be replaced with a smaller E36 sump.



Serious cutting of the original baukhead.



Then just lower every thing into place.



Snug fit.



Now all I have to do is stop it jumping out
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Available from eBay
  #2  
Old 4th January 2014, 16:21
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Quote:
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Now all I have to do is stop it jumping out
Bit of Blu Tak?
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  #3  
Old 4th January 2014, 18:21
WorldClassAccident WorldClassAccident is offline
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Good luck getting that through IVA!
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  #4  
Old 4th January 2014, 18:24
oxford1360 oxford1360 is offline
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I've been considering a Beemer diff for a while but I have decided against it for this project. Are you planning to use one? I do worry for a Triumph diff with a modern power plant.
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  #5  
Old 4th January 2014, 20:14
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chassis and rear suspension would be my first concerns
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  #6  
Old 4th January 2014, 21:02
oxford1360 oxford1360 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scimjim View Post
chassis and rear suspension would be my first concerns
Those as well.
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  #7  
Old 4th January 2014, 21:48
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Oh, have faith, ye of, um, little faith.

The chassis/diff/brakes can stand an awful lot more power than Triumph intended so long as they're in tip top condition.

I can't see a problem with using a more powerful, modern motor, even if it is sacrilege.
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  #8  
Old 4th January 2014, 23:20
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diff and brakes probably can but the chassis and rear suspension couldn't even take the power of the asthmatic Triumph straight six (hence no factory soft top GT6 and a revised rear end) - it was a succession of Heralds/Spits & GT6s that drove me to GRP
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  #9  
Old 5th January 2014, 10:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Towed View Post
Oh, have faith, ye of, um, little faith.

The chassis/diff/brakes can stand an awful lot more power than Triumph intended so long as they're in tip top condition.

I can't see a problem with using a more powerful, modern motor, even if it is sacrilege.
Well said Mr Towed

Now to argue a few points

The engine details will be in the V5 before the DVLA inspection, so the numbers will tally. Even if they argue the engine and gearbox only add up to 3 points giving me a total of 11 points well over the 8 point required to keep the original registration.

Even thought extra engine mounts have been welded in the main chassis remains unaltered. I do intend to install a brace between the suspension towers similar to the one used on the Scimitar GTE

The front suspension is very similar to the wish bone set-up used on a lot of kit cars, track car and even hot rods who have a great deal more power installed.

The engine/gearbox is about 150lbs lighter than the six pot so when built the car should weight some where between 500 and 600kg, about half the weight of a standard Triumph, taking much stress off the chassis and with the up-grade (type 16 callipers and servo) the braking will be much improved .

The rear suspension is another thing, but again it only has to cope with half the weight.
This car has a kind of roll bar fitted across the rear hubs to prevent the hubs "turning in" but I might reverse the leaf spring as per the Triumph racers of the day or maybe fit the coil-over conversion.

The diff is really quite strong and with the car being so light my theory is all the extra power will be lost at the weakest point ie; between the tyres and the tarmac, again the weight of the car will help.
If all goes wrong I'll replace the diff at a later date, maybe fit a BMW LSD but only after the DVLA inspection.

This car should be blisteringly fast but only if the driver can apply the power against the weight, just like racing drivers have to.
It should be fun to drive but a real handful in the wet

All that said these cars are well over due an up-grade, after all it is 2014

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL.
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  #10  
Old 5th January 2014, 14:34
Little Red Car Little Red Car is offline
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I find this notion of Triumph componentry being weak surprising. As long as the differential isn't especially high mileage it should be able to cope quite easily. I have covered in excess of 500,000 miles in various Triumphs without any mechanical maladies. Just fair wear and tear.
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  #11  
Old 5th January 2014, 15:23
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I have no axe to grind over a Triumphs diff or mechanicals, never suggested they were weak and wasn't arguing about anything (the only exception with hindsight would be with mr towed's comment re chassis - it's well documented that for anything more than pootling around, it can't stand much more power in standard trim and removing parts of the bodyshell also removes a lot of the original torsional rigidity) - I simply wished to highlight that increasing the power required some thought about chassis stiffness and rear suspension. I will agree that it definitely needs an upgrade though

chassis work doesn't have to be unsightly or excessive - most v8 conversions (c200bhp) simply seam weld and add a full roll cage?

Losing 150Kg at the nose and a smaller percentage at the rear will change the roll characteristics - but they won't negate the rear suspension design flaw - the original design can give around 20 degrees of camber change (the arb will limit that but may make it break away on the limit much quicker) - the "improved" GT6 rotoflex gives approx. 1 degree of camber change per 15mm of vertical movement (to around 10 deg max)!

Last edited by scimjim; 5th January 2014 at 15:51..
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  #12  
Old 5th January 2014, 17:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scimjim View Post
the "improved" GT6 rotoflex gives approx. 1 degree of camber change per 15mm of vertical movement (to around 10 deg max)!
The GT6 diff is the way to go but they are few and far between so I'll just go with what I'v got for now

Noted you are just down the road from me so why not call in for a cupper
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  #13  
Old 6th January 2014, 16:42
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Engine mounts now fitted

Right hand side



Left hand side



Rear gearbox mount, this is very close to the original gearbox mounts

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  #14  
Old 6th January 2014, 18:33
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Looks good, where will the gear lever end up, will the linkage need shortening/lengthening?

How is it for height compared to the Herald lump?

Any ancillaries need moving for clearance?

Sorry for all the questions but I do like to know the ins and outs.
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  #15  
Old 7th January 2014, 10:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Towed View Post
Looks good, where will the gear lever end up, will the linkage need shortening/lengthening?

How is it for height compared to the Herald lump?

Any ancillaries need moving for clearance?

Sorry for all the questions but I do like to know the ins and outs.
No problems, thats why I started the thread.
The gearbox is about the same height as the original.
The BMW gear stick bolts to the back of the gearbox and is about 30cm long. I could shorten it but I thought I would bend it forward SHELBY COBRA style

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...bra_inside.jpg

The alternator will also need re-fitting to clear the chassis, not an easy job

There will also be modifications so a heater will be added later
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  #16  
Old 10th January 2014, 10:09
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Smile

The rear cage frame had to be re-built as the spitfire tank was unsuitable as it draws from the top not only will the high pressure pump not pull but the pump needs a 15mm supply line to maintain the correct pressure.
The humble VW beetle should do the trick.





Put in some extra support to which I'll bolt the body.





I'll be fitting the pump on the cage frame under the tank

I think the MGF wheels look really good and a 70 the set there the right price as well
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  #17  
Old 10th January 2014, 12:33
Viatron Viatron is offline
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But with that big ole tank in the back you wont have room for a mini barrel heater now!
:-)
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  #18  
Old 10th January 2014, 12:56
adventuresoftimtim adventuresoftimtim is offline
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Looking good!

Are you going to permanently bond the body on or try and have a go for a bolt on/bolt off arrangement?
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  #19  
Old 10th January 2014, 17:36
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Originally Posted by adventuresoftimtim View Post
Looking good!

Are you going to permanently bond the body on or try and have a go for a bolt on/bolt off arrangement?
I still want to bolt the body to the cage frame so it can be completely removed when needed .
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  #20  
Old 11th January 2014, 09:45
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Default Herald/ford Pinto

Hello,

Beside building a Sammio I am building a Pinto engine into the Herald of my son.
So i am reading this with intrest and wondered what you want to do with your front brakes.
My Sammio is Vitesse based and I can see the bigger callipers won,t fit to Herald hubs,what is your solution?
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