Another Cordite Is Born ...

[Paul L]

MoriniMan & Mister Towed: - Thanks for the replies gentlemen.
I'll form a plan when I know how well my frame lines up with the chassis.
It all else fails I will just have to paint/seal around the prop. shaft, etc.

Redratbike - Thanks for the courier info.
Although I hope collecting the heater might help me sell other small bits.

Hopefully I'll get a large chuck of my domestic chores done this weekend.
And with a bit of luck still have time to test fit the frame.

Have a good one, Paul.

[redratbike]

No worries..... I use couriers al the time now with the bits I sell,none of this..it didn't arrive can I have a refund .

It's a cut throat business,a friend managed to send an old mini gearbox to Greece on a half pallet for £8.50!!!!!!M!M

[Paul L]

I've spent the bulk of the weekend working in the garden & general house tidying.
Part of that involved moving Cordite parts from the back garden to the front drive.
So I have a little bit of progress to report...

Cleaning:
I gave the Rolling Chassis a quick "wash & brush up" to get the bulk of the dust & dirt off.
But I need to get some more 'Gunk' to sort out the engine, clutch housing, gearbox, etc.
I also hope going round these with a torque wrench will stop the various 'weeping' points.
At some point I will need to clean the drive itself as that has become a big drip trap. : (

However, cleaning & daylight gives a much better impression of what remains of my donor.
Don't tell you know who that there is some over spray to deal with on the chassis too. ; )





Internal Framework & Body Work:
This was all done in a bit of a rush just to tidy up & will be done properly another day.
But it was still a good chance to get a better idea of what I need to do in the future.

Before I tried to fit the rear frame I needed to remove the cross brace added for transportation.
After years of borrowing angle grinders from my mate, I finally bought a small one of my own.
So whilst not strictly a true cost of the build, it is something very useful to have around.
I will keep the "off cut" as I'm sure it will come in handy later on in the build somewhere.



Now I had rested the front frame on the chassis when the body shell was removed.
In daylight it is clear that all the holes do not line up, but I think this should be an easy fix.
The rear frame only has two fixing points pre-drilled for the raised rear mounting points.
Again, I don't think it will take much work to get them bolted into place either.
Based on other builds I think you drill holes to bolt the frame to the main chassis rail.

Here is DonnySoutherner's frame with bolts through it at the front.
( There are a matching pair at the back end of the frame on his build too. )



In the mean time, here are both my frames just resting in place:



The first question I have is does the frame re-use the original Spitfire rubber mountings?
There were a mixture of plain rubber & rubber with metal "caps" on my donor.
Whilst one was missing (probably stuck to body shell), I've found a new one in a box of bits.



The answer to this question will help me with my next issue, which is the fuel line.
If the rear frame sits directly on the chassis, the fuel line will need to be lowered.
The line currently sits on the side of the main chassis rail & the rear frame just hits it.



As we were in a rush I simply used zip ties to hold the front & back roughly in place.



I assume the two parts of the frame should be joined together before final fitting.
Because my rough & ready fixing meant that I couldn't line up the top & bottom brackets.
( Something that I am sure will not be a problem when I have time to look at it. )
Although it does appear that AndyP57 has a different bracket on his frame??

Here are my top and bottom brackets:





And here are the only photos I could find of the frames joined together.





I just need to make sure I get the two frame parts on the correct side of each other.
Even though the frame wasn't quite right, it was time to put the body on.
Unfortunately it quickly became clear the frame had a knock on impact on this.
I couldn't get the dash or the bottom of the front bulk head in place.
But wasn't going to force, or start cutting, anything at this stage.







That was as much as I had time for yesterday, but I did some more this morning.
I moved the front foot wells, gearbox cover & hand brake mount to rest in place.



As there is no where to mount the rear exhaust pipes (yet) I just left them on the ground.
This was to give me a rough idea how far they would stick out beyond the bodywork.
They are not too bad, although I still might shorten the single mid section pipe a tad.



Finally I put the bonnet on, but quickly remembered the front chassis rails are in the way.
But it couldn't stay in the garden, so I held it in place with some 'tie down' straps.



Which was good enough for me to be able to pull the cover over the top.
Even though it is only temporary, this has been a big help in 'tidying up'.

[Rolf Harris] Can you tell what it is yet? [/Rolf Harris]



I've been updating these words & photos as I've been going along.
But I still have more domestic chores to finish today, so I'll leave it at that for now.
I'm not going to touch the car now until after our big bash next Saturday.

Until then, take care, Paul.

[davecymru]

Originally Posted by Paul L

<out of context>... I simply used zip ties to hold the front & back roughly in place. < /out of context>

That'll be fine like that, just put a smidge of tigerseal on it for added security and what can possibly go wrong!

Note for people without a sense of humour: the above is a joke!!


Apart from that, it's looking good matey and it won't be long now before the "big" steps are done and it'll really start taking shape!

[Mister Towed]

Originally Posted by davecymru

That'll be fine like that, just put a smidge of tigerseal on it for added security and what can possibly go wrong!

Note for people without a sense of humour: the above is a joke!!


Apart from that, it's looking good matey and it won't be long now before the "big" steps are done and it'll really start taking shape!

Tigerseal? Bit excessive, that. There's no point in over-engineering something that Pritt'll stick...

Nice to see a Cordite coming together, and don't worry about the little things that don't line up - after a bit of beard scratching there's always a straightforward way to fettle and fit them in the end

[Paul L]

Progress Report:
No real progress to report as I spent the week tidying the house & garden.
Yesterday was perfect day for our BBQ with friends and given today's rain, very lucky too.
My 'thrown together to tidy up' Cordite made it easier for them to understand the project.
I made the mistake of rashly promising it would be on the road by this time next year.
At which point one of my mates opened a "book" on when it would actually be done.
Hopefully the money laid against a 2014 finish will not be collected!!

So the following is more about me 'thinking out loud' and planning my next steps...

Marine Ply Panels Required:
Whilst the body is still on temporarily, I will think about the plywood panels I need to make.
AndyP57 has provided a good example of what is required around the front foot wells.



And most build threads show how the internal cockpit walls are constructed, e.g. Mr T.



But I have struggled to find clear information on what goes behind the rear cockpit.
I know DonnySoutherner has reused an old section of Spitfire bodywork for his Cordite.



But I get the impression that many builders simply leave this rear section "empty" so to speak.
Although I haven't fitted the petrol tank yet, instinctively I think this needs some protection.
Others have storage built in behind the seats, but I wasn't planning to based on KISS principles.
However, some form of rear wheel arch seems like a good idea, but what do I know?

So I'll have a think & play around with some cardboard templates to see what will fit where.
Then I can work out how much marine ply I need to buy and start the process of making the panels.
I will also steal DonnySoutherner's idea of a sunken battery box made out of ply while I'm at it.

Brakes:
Unbeknown to me, the Cordite was not designed for brake master cylinders from late 1500 Spitfires.
My twin pipe master cylinder is both too tall & too long when compared to the space available.



AndyP57 has resolved this by switching back to the single line system on earlier models.
However, I just can't bring myself to downgrade the braking system of a car that is already 32 years old.
So I need to find a solution that will allow me to retain the existing master cylinder.

One option would be to lower the pedal mounting plate a little & adjust the bulkhead to match.
Interestingly, my Spitfire donor had a recess built into the bulk head for the master cylinder.



So my Cordite bulkhead would need to go "down & back" if that makes sense.
Pros - Leaves the bonnet line as originally intended.
Cons - Some major re-working of parts required.

Another option would be to add some sort of "Wembley Bubble" to raise the bonnet & bulkhead.
Pros - Leaves the internal framework as originally intended.
Cons - May look major league ugly!

I need to get this "right first time" so I will give it more thought before trying to fix it.

Rear Spring Lowering Block:
This is another one of those areas where I am not 100% sure what I am supposed to be doing.
I thought a lowering block was required as a Cordite will weigh a lot less than the donor Spitfire.
However, I see that AndyP57 is leaving the rear suspension untouched in his demonstrator.

Originally Posted by AndyP57

... I've not put any lowering blocks in mine (And may not do yet) as I want to experiment with wheel sizes to fill the arch, leaving the geometry of the swing spring as it was designed ...

I was never looking for a "low to the ground" racing car stance & had hoped to avoid cutting springs.
As given all the speed bumps around here, I'd run the risk of being "beached" while driving.
Even though I have just thrown the body on, it does look to be riding too high at the moment.
Although I still have to add the petrol tank, seats, wood panel, etc. + driver which will lower it a bit.
So I'll keep an eye on Andy's build and see if his approach works which would make my build easier.

DonnySoutherner's top tip was to sort out the rear suspension before fixing the frame & body.
So in the short term I will just get on with other parts of my "To Do" list and come back to this later on.

So lots to do and think about, so I'll leave it at that for now.

Cheers, Paul.

Replies:
Dave Cymru -
I now have a 'Wallace & Grommit' sidecar image of my Cordite taking its first sharp turn...
With me & my zip tied frame & body going one way, whilst the engine & rolling chassis goes another!

Mister Towed - "Beard scratching"?
I need to grow a beard to build a Cordite?
Wow, there really is a lot about this car building process that I just simply didn't know.

Jokes aside, I'm sure the framework will not take too long to sort out, as it seems pretty close already.

[WorldClassAccident]

The g46 has the same issue with the brake servo being mounted so it fouls the front wing. Fortunately it is a remote servo so easy to re-locate

[donnysoutherner]

....But I have struggled to find clear information on what goes behind the rear cockpit.
I know DonnySoutherner has reused an old section of Spitfire bodywork for his Cordite.....

Not updated my page for a while but watch this space. The big advantage of puitting floor in place (apart from rigidity) is that i am now planning to have boot on my Cordite. More on that soon, when I eventually find my camera (yes, seriously)

[Paul L]

Mister Towed - I'm following the work you are doing on your own bonnet for 'bulge building' ideas.
Good point on ground clearance, I'll make a decision on the lowering block ASAP to avoid any delays.

MoriniMan - Thanks for the suggestions, I'll look into remote reservoirs (I've used bikes with them).

WorldClassAccident - Finding suitable homes for everything does seem to be part of the fun.

DonnySoutherner - I look forward to your build update, with hopefully some photos.
I saw your posts about the re-body inspection, so figured you were making progress.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Quick Question:
I hope to re-route the existing hard fuel line to the petrol tank's new home in the Cordite framework.
( The previous owner fitted a brand new line and it seems a shame to waste it. )
I will need to change some existing bends, add some new bends & shorten the pipe length.
I've seen this 'cheap & cheerful' tool set on Ebay & wondered if it would be up to the job?

Tube Cutter 1/8-1.1/8in (3-28mm)
3 Flexible Tube Benders 1/4 5/16 And 3/8in
Tube Flaring Tool Fits 3/16 1/4 5/16 3/8 1/2 And 5/8in.



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The current mini monsoon season reminds me why an outdoor build was a dumb idea.
But it should be dry at the weekend which will allow me to keep chipping away.

Cheers, Paul.

[davecymru]

That pipe cutter and bender will be fine, but tbh I bought one of those cheap flaring tools and it was nothing but trouble! In the end I bought a nice (yet still fairly cheap) one from car builder solutions and i'm really glad I did as it was superb and saved a massive amount of faffing!

This is the one i've got,
http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/product/B...ring_Kit_FLARE
it's a very nice bit of kit and should last many years!

[Paul L]

Pedal Mounting Plate:
Although I still don't know what I'm doing with my brakes yet (see update below)...
I'd looked at this plate when I was painting the tops of the pedals & knew there was an issue.
There was one hole missing and two of the existing holes didn't quite line up properly.



Even I am capable of drilling a new hole and enlarging the other ones, so another job done.
I am just grateful I remembered to fix it before fitting the body.



Internal Framework Fitting - Take 2:
Initially I just zip wired the frame to the chassis to temporarily hold it in place to "tidy up".
This time I removed all the bodywork resting on top to have a proper look at what was required.

First job was finding a way of locating the seat belt mounting points on the chassis with the frame on.
Unfortunately, the frame covers these holes completely, so you can't tell where to drill the frame.
This needed nothing more than tape on the edges of the chassis & a simple cardboard template.
( Sorry the photo is a bit blurred )



These seat belt mounting points will also fix the location of my hand brake mounting panel too.
But I will not start drilling the holes in the frame until I have got all the other fixing points sorted.
So the next job was comparing my chassis bolts to the holes in the frame & enlarging where required.



I started with the rear frame and managed to get both the rear chassis bolts in place.
I am re-using the rubber washers from my donor during this test fitting, still don't know if I should.
Next it was time to join the two halves of the framework together and this was a little confusing.
The bottom sections of frame work seemed to join up OK (this is the passenger side)...



Where the tops of the two frames should align and be joined together is less clear.
On the passenger side I assume the two edges line up and a hole is drilled in the rear frame.



But on the driver's side there is an additional bracket that is not on the other side.
So is this where the two halves should be bolted together instead?
As it currently stands the hole in this extra bracket doesn't line up with any other hole.
Obviously I could simply line up the two edges (as per passenger side) & drill a hole.



Rather than do something wrong, I moved on to bolting down the front half of the frame.
I got both the bolts at the cockpit end of the frame in place which was a good start.
But I came up a little short when I tried to fit the front end of the frame in place.



This is why knowing how the top halves of the two frames join together would help.
I could make the front frame close to the chassis hole if I "hinge" it forward a bit.
But I don't want to get the bottom of the frame work in if this messes up the middle.
Despite following Misted Towed's advice of 'beard scratching' I am a little lost.
I know getting the frame in square (ish) is important, but square to what?

It is not that I don't like jigsaw puzzles...
Its just that is would be nice if I could actually see the photo on the box now & again.

As my time was limited that is as far as I got with fitting the frame today.

Brake Master Cylinder:
I knew I had some issues with fitting this in the fibre glass bulkhead.
But today it became clear that I'd missed another problem which is the frame itself.
If the pedal mounting plate stays where it is the back of the M/C will hit the frame.



Internal Panelling:
I did take some approximate measurements for the initial panels I need to make.
- Front foot well surrounds x 2
- Cockpit sides with door cut outs x 2
- Cockpit rear wall x 1

I will do some rough sketches to scale to give me an idea of how much ply I need.
Unfortunately the best value sheets (2440x1220mm) don't fit in the back of my car.
And the local store doesn't cut them on site, so I might have to go to one that does.
But I would need to know the sizes to cut it down to before I do.

So I think it might be 'Blue Peter' time again to layout scale paper templates.
These would give me a 'tailor's pattern' on the scale equivalent of the big sheets.

Project Timing:
In a few weeks time my project will pass the 6 months mark.
I still feel that I have made good progress given the limited time I've had available.
However, what is clear is that progress will continue to be slow in the months to come.
I have now simply accepted this and will not get frustrated by it.
I will keep chipping away and see how what happens.

Off for a family lunch with "granny" tomorrow, so not sure I'll get anything done.

So until next time, take care, Paul.

Replies:
Dave Cymru - Thanks for the feedback & the link.

[Charman.tech]

As others have suggested this week and how we aligned our frames and body we established a centre line, both front to back and side to side.

Which enabled us to half any differences so rather than bolt one side and have 20mm short the other we +10mm & -10mm the difference and were able to line the frames centre to the chassis/body.

Hope that helps and does state the bloody obvious.

Impressed by your level of workmanship and approach all with out a garage? to you have a workshop? winters coming.

[MoriniMan]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Brake Master Cylinder:
I knew I had some issues with fitting this in the fibre glass bulkhead.
But today it became clear that I'd missed another problem which is the frame itself.
If the pedal mounting plate stays where it is the back of the M/C will hit the frame.

If you go the remote reservoir route the it looks like the cylinder will go in if you mount it horizontally. The cylinder bracket would need modifying along with the pedal above the pivot (to keep the pushrod geometry correct). Not difficult if you're confident in your welding.

[Mister Towed]

I'd be inclined to modify the frame (and bonnet if necessary) to accommodate the brake master cylinder and resovoir in their standard positions. The frame only supports the bodywork and provides brackets to hang things from, it isn't part of the chassis structure so it won't cause any safety issues with the handling etc, even if your welds fail. But if your brake pedal shears off...

I cut and re-welded my frame just to allow my instruments to go where I wanted them -



Good luck finding a solution that works for your set-up.

[Paul L]

Family day today, but was able to grab a few minutes before the sun went down.

Petrol Tank:
As part of my frame test fitting & general "mock up" I rested the petrol tank in place.



If I align the tank with the bottom of the frame work, the fuel line feed fouls the frame.



I know this can be adjusted, but I didn't have to worry about that as there was a bigger issue.
With the tank at the bottom, the mounting points at the 4 corners didn't line up with the frame.
So I lifted the tank so it was flush with the top edge of the frame instead.
This will allow me to use the 4 mounting holes on the top edge of the tank.
( Which means the fuel line feed pipe is also clear as is. )



The bottom 2 corner mounting points can also be used as they line up with the frame.



Which just leaves the top 2 corners not being used as the are too far out of alignment.



I think there were only 5 bolts holding it originally, so 6 bolts should do it (touch wood).

Hand Brake Mounting Panel:
There is still plenty of room behind the petrol tank for my 2nd hand panel to fit under.
It is sitting very high in the photo below as I still have to trim off the bottom edges.



I need to be very careful when I take the angle grinder to this panel.
Thankfully I remembered what the bolt hole in this photo is for before I started cutting...



It is the pivot mount for the hand brake mechanism & I'd have been stuffed without it!



Cheers, Paul.

Replies:

Charman.Tech - I think centre lines will be a big help in convincing me things are straight.
I will be putting the chassis on stands before I do my final bolting together to get it level.
A sloping driveway is not a big help when it comes to lining things up.

Unfortunately I don't have a workshop either & do fear winter!
"Clean" jobs like wiring I can bring indoors, or use the Summer House in our garden.
But everything else has to be done outdoors which really wastes time.
Its the bringing out & putting away of all tools, parts, etc. that is a real pain.
Currently the body & bonnet are just left along side while I work on the frame.



MoriniMan - Currently I have no welding skills at all, but I know two good mates who do.
I am currently making a list of questions to get their advice on before I make any final decisions.

Mister Towed - I'd already noted the way you re-arranged the frame behind your dash.
Which is why your build thread is such a great source of information to me.
The more detail there is the better as far as I am concerned (which explains this thread too).

[AndyP57]

Hi Paul, Just one thing I've noticed is that you have your tank mounted the original way. I've mounted mine backwards so that the fuel filler goes in the gap in the frame, the feed is forward of it and the sender is accessible through a hole in the bulkhead. In practice, should make no difference to operation but for a supportability aspect, makes it easier should anything go wrong.

[Paul L]

We decided to have a family "lazy day" today, so lots of just hanging out & then going out for lunch.
Despite having to oil the garden furniture before covering it for the winter I did get a some time on the car.

Petrol Tank - Take 2:
Following AndyP57's comments I swapped the tank around & the petrol cap is in a better position.



I had tried it in this position before, but couldn't remember why I didn't stick with it.
Then I noticed the tank hits the frame in one corner & this is why I swapped it around the first time.



However, I can get around this by adding a few washers when bolting top of the tank to the frame.
This would give me the small clearance I need to fit an original rubber strip in between tank & frame.

Hand Brake Mounting Panel - Continued:
This is the part of the frame that I needed to make cut outs from the panel to clear.



In an attempt to remove the least amount of metal possible I made this a much harder job.
I have to do my angle grinding at the bottom of the garden behind the summer house.
This avoids sending sparks over nearby cars if I did it in the front drive.
It also avoids me sending sparks on to the washing hanging on the line.
So I was back & forth from the drive to the bottom of the garden like a yo-yo.
I should have just taken a huge chuck out right from the start and been done with it!

Anyway, I ended up with cut outs like this on either side of the panel (excuse poor photo).



This allow the panel to sit flush in position over the Cordite framework.





Which in turn gives me a rough idea of how the rear cockpit panel might eventually look.



Mock Up - Continued:
Previously I had this reply from Dave...

Originally Posted by davecymru

... the only bit that was an unknown for me was how to join my gearbox cover to the tunnel i had made, so it may be worth having a play and fabricating a basic solution while you've still got everything apart as when the body is on you end up doing some superb contortions when 'fettling' the interior ...

As I now look at the hand brake mounting panel, it seems longer that my original.
This is the gap between gearbox cover and the panel now:



But this was the gap before:


I was hoping to re-use the metal "bridge" between the two pieces.
So that is something I will keep an eye on when things are in their final positions.
As I said before, the whole point of testing things now is to see how it all fits together.

Until next time, take care, Paul.

Replies:
Mr T: - Thanks for the encouragement, you are living proof that chipping away works.
I had forgotten that you moved your petrol tank, but I will still copy your big blob idea.
AndyP57 - Thanks for the tip, I have taken your advice (see above).
If you ever get the chance to read back over some of my other posts, I'd value your input.
There are many things I don't want to mess up, like using rubber frame mounts, etc.

[Paul L]

Internal Framework:
I fitted the radius arm brackets to the frame to ensure the spacing at this end was OK.
Driver's side went in with no problems, but the passenger side turned into a right 'mare.
My first issue was the holes in the frame were too close together...



But that was a simple job to fix by running a drill bit through the holes to widen them.
However, I just couldn't get the bolt through the bracket, bush & out the other side for ages.
I think I worked my way through the complete 'Profanisaurus' until I final got it in.
This would have been a 5 minute job with an extra pair of hands, but took me over an hour.
Still at least I ended up with both arms in place at the end.



Note:
Big adjustable spanner was one of my many 'leverage' tools, not used for tightening nuts!

I decided to join the top sections of the two frames together before I attempted to fix the front frame.
In the absence of any official guidance, I've assumed that the straight edges of both frames should line up.
So I took the plunge and drilled holes through each side of the rear frame and bolted both sides together.

Passenger Side:



Driver's Side:



Then I turned my attention to the front section of framework that had initially come up a bit short...



So I tried a little bit of gentle persuasion using nothing more than a pair of ratchet tie down straps.
I hooked one end to the Cordite frame & the other to the main cross rail at the front of the chassis.
I then tighten each strap alternatively one notch at a time to spread the tension more evenly (ish).



This approach initially seemed to be working & the passenger side finally slotted in to place.
I had to re-use one of the Spitfire's metal chassis / body shell washers on top of a rubber one.



But the driver's side wouldn't line up for love, nor money, despite more quotes from the 'Profanisaurus'.
In the end, I had to admit defeat and drill another hole in the frame and bolt it in as best I could.



It was only when I went to slacken off the straps that one ratchet "exploded" under the tension... oops.
"So don't try this at home kids."

I know I still need to take some measurements to ensure the frame is sitting square on the chassis.
But I'm happy enough that is fits for now so that I can at least have another go at fitting the body.

I removed the straps holding the petrol tank in place to elongate the bottom corner mounting holes.
Excuse the poor photo...



I then put the tank back in place & adjusted it to give a best fit along the top edge & bottom corners.
I put some new tape on the frame & re-marked the holes required & then removed the tanks again.
( It occurred to me that is wasn't a good idea to centre holes in the frame independently of the tank. )
Then I drilled the 6 holes required in the frame...



I've used some normal nuts on the bolts for now, just to hold the tank in place for now.
After I finish test fitting stuff, I'll remove it again & paint it & then use Nyloc nuts to secure it.



I put extra washers on the driver's side to give me the clearance I need between tank & frame.



Again, excuse the poor photo...



As always I never seem to get as much done as I hoped to do.
But the motto of this build is any progress in better than no progress.

Until next time, take care, Paul.

[garyh]

As always, enjoying your thread... Very detailed.

[Mister Towed]

As with most things Sammio, fitting the frame is subject to sod's law - if the frame's square, then the chassis probably isn't, and if the chassis's square, you can guess the rest.

Take one small step at a time though and giant leaps are possible...