Build progress

[Patrick]

It failed. However it's not that bad:

1) Seat back strength. As the seats have harness holes in an impact all of the force gets taken up by the back mounts and the seat back. I didn't have evidence that the seat conformed to the M1 Directive 76/115/EEC. I spoke to Cobra after the test and they that they've never had an issue with Roadster 7's and SVA, but the also don't have any documentation to send me. They will call me back on Monday.

Two solutions, get the paper work or weld in a bar higher than the harness holes between either side of the roll bars.

2) Mirrors. Due to the seat backs getting in the way (more than 10%) of the rear view the passenger side mirror becomes a requirement. You couldn't see enough in that mirror. It requires convex glass. (and not just double sided taped on)

Two solutions, find some glass that goes in the existing mirror or replace the mirror.

3) Sheet metal edges on bonnet all round need rubber on them. Would have done this there an then but I need to go back anyway so no point in rushing it.

4) Glass fibre edge under bonnet requires a radius of 1.5mm. Ditto above

5) Steering geometry - car didn't self centre from full lock my fault for checking the properly. Need to get Camber, caster and toe in setting from Mark or Simon (not that I was able to get a conclusive answer before)

6) Heat shield brake master cylinder and servo - I put an ali sheet on there but consensus was that it would soak up more heat. Fix cover in heat shield, not problem got a box of that in the garage.

7) Brake valve compensator - I used zip ties to hole this up, needs a proper bracket.

8) Design weights were wrong on the form. Car is heaver at the back that expected - probably due to the exhaust. So need a letter from Marlin with new weights. The rear needed to be at least 563 (and the gross put up to cover this)

The collapsible of the steering column was a very close issue but they did pass it in the end after a lunch time chat with everyone else there and a study of the manual.

That was it so all in all not too bad, nothing that can't be fixed. Mark the tester at Southampton was nice a guy and very honest about everything.

Interior projections all passed, exterior projections all passed (had to sand down the rear reflectors a bit more, but that was it!)

Emission were still OK, exhaust was so close you wouldn't believe. One pipe was 98.9 and the other was 100.7 with an average of 99.8db! Test was done at 4350rpm. A bit higher than I though it would be.

[GreatOldOne]

Damn - but like you say, nothing that can't be fixed. Here's hoping you can get a retest soon.

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by GreatOldOne

Damn - but like you say, nothing that can't be fixed. Here's hoping you can get a retest soon.

Pretty much all the stuff I was worried about passed. The steering and the seat issues are the only bigger ones. Everything else is pretty minor.

I'm not too worried. I'd rather they fail me on these things so I can get them fixed rather than have them look away and it cause me trouble in future.

The rear axle weight as a definite you have to getting a letter from Marlin stating different weights are OK so there was no point in trying to fix the minor stuff there an then.

[Patrick]

While I'm still thinking about it:

The handbrake setup had some discussion round it, but I had the donor bentley manual with me that showed the adjustment on the handle and the interior layout with springs etc that compensate for wear. Make sure you take a Haynes or Bentley manual this will get asked!

[peterux]

How dissappointing, I thought you were going to pass!

It's a shame Marlin can't issue a more definative list of things to do to pass the test?

Originally Posted by Patrick

While I'm still thinking about it:

The handbrake setup had some discussion round it, but I had the donor bentley manual with me that showed the adjustment on the handle and the interior layout with springs etc that compensate for wear. Make sure you take a Haynes or Bentley manual this will get asked!

Really good tip about taking the manual, I wouldn't have thought about that.

Halfords sell replacement mirror glass for people that drive to close and smash their wing mirrors. They might do some convex glass mirrors that fit?

The rubber round the bonnet edges and the fibreglass edge under the bonnet sounds really picky? (I suppose that's for when you run into someone whilst driving along with the bonnet open? )

Everyone seems to have trouble with those mystery design weights!!

Like you said, they passed some of the more tricky things which is good news.

Good luck with the re-test!

[MartinClan]

Originally Posted by Patrick

5) Steering geometry - car didn't self centre from full lock my fault for checking the properly. Need to get Camber, caster and toe in setting from Mark or Simon (not that I was able to get a conclusive answer before)

To get the self centering work you will need some positive camber on the front wheels (that is they stick out at the top) I discovered this when playing with the camber on my triumph based Marlin years ago. Front wheels with negative camber look cool - but just doesn't work very well!

I also read somewhere that the tyres need to be well inflated.

Good luck with the re-test!

Robin

BTW - what was the discussion on the steering about? Were they unhappy with the collapsible boss that you used?

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by MartinClan

To get the self centering work you will need some positive camber on the front wheels (that is they stick out at the top) I discovered this when playing with the camber on my triumph based Marlin years ago. Front wheels with negative camber look cool - but just doesn't work very well!

I also read somewhere that the tyres need to be well inflated.

Good luck with the re-test!

Robin

BTW - what was the discussion on the steering about? Were they unhappy with the collapsible boss that you used?

Ahhh now I though negative camber was correct! Doh I'll try some positve and see how it goes (I really don't know much about steering geometry setup!)

Mark wanted to see a collaspable bit either in the donor steering column or along the extender that Marlin supply. There's no obvious bits that collapses on the BMW column, obviously none on the Marlin bit.

I'm guess after referals with the other testers they decided the boss was enough.

Decided to go with welding a tube in on the roll bar anyway, so no matter if I can get paper work or not it will pass. Here's a few pictures of the tube before it goes on:

[peterux]

Patrick,
Just remembered, did you get any comments about your exhaust exit pipes?

Also, can you explain more about the mirrors? Is it that the centre mirror was obstructed by the seat backs?

I guess that the extra seat belt bar must be welded higher than the holes in the seats, or doesn't that matter?

Peter

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by peterux

Patrick,
Just remembered, did you get any comments about your exhaust exit pipes?

Also, can you explain more about the mirrors? Is it that the centre mirror was obstructed by the seat backs?

I guess that the extra seat belt bar must be welded higher than the holes in the seats, or doesn't that matter?

Peter

Exhaust pipes - no issue at all due to the bar I put on the back. The cone thing didn't contact the pipes.

Yeah the problem was that more than 10% of the rear view was being obstructed by the seats when setup to see the distance dots they use for testing. (I think it was more because the tester was shorter than me!). That was the reason why the other mirror had to be tested. Due to the angle and distance from the mirror as the drive you couldn't see all the points in the mirror no matter how it was adjusted.

The bar has to be welded same height or higher. I've got that one sorted. I'll process and post some pictures later. I had a good long chat with the guy that came over to weld the bar in for me (he's done a lot of racing) we went through me sat in the seat and checking heights and where the belts would apply force.

[peterux]

Originally Posted by Patrick

I'll process and post some pictures later.

Yeah, just seen your new pictures. Looks like a great welding job done!

[Patrick]

Just finished writing the news bit for the pictures

Here's a piccy of us at SVA:

A trip to Metal Supermarket in Southampton in the morning to get some steel tube, then a visit from TA member Black-Cat (Tom) in the afternoon. Huge thanks to Tom for bringing his TIG round to weld this bar in for us. He also brought his tube notcher which is an awesome bit of kit!

Tube notcher makes quick work of getting the angles and surfaces right for welding.

Tom welding the underside of the bar - not an easy place to fit in!

The resulting welds!

Bar ready for paint

And paint on the bar

[MartinClan]

Originally Posted by Patrick

The bar has to be welded same height or higher.

Looks a great job. The question in my mind is why don't Marlin do this as standard? It seems an obvious solution to the seat belt height problem...

Robin

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by MartinClan

Looks a great job. The question in my mind is why don't Marlin do this as standard? It seems an obvious solution to the seat belt height problem...

Robin

Good question, why doesn't Terry have things like camber, caster and toe setting to hand - its got to be a FAQ!

There's many things on the kit where I would say, why is it not that way from the start.


Bracket made and installed for the brake compensator valve. Its now solidly bolted in place with a P clip. Also add an extra P clip to one of the brake lines.

Heat shielding installed for the brake servo and master cylinder

Rubber added to bonnet edges...

.... but ran out of rubber, doh!

Started on chopping the tub so the harness does not rub on the fibreglass

Started installing convex glass in the mirrors.

[peterux]

Originally Posted by MartinClan

Looks a great job. The question in my mind is why don't Marlin do this as standard? It seems an obvious solution to the seat belt height problem...

Robin

Probably becuse they haven't had a problem or have some paperwork to say the seats are strong enough?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/peters-...in/1508200045/

I've posted some other pictures I took at the same show. Also, just noticed that there was no rear view mirror on this car?

[AndyDane]

I had that conversation with Terry once - she thought the seats harness holes were sufficient and had passed SVA on their demo at the time - but it had the seatbelt bar that I see on the Marlin price list now comes as an optional extra as part of their seatbelt kit or something like that. Vindi put a bar into mine for that very reason...

Mine deflected too much though and had to be braced underneath but it looks like mine is a far less beefy bar than you've got.

Give the belts a good hard tug and see if the bar moves at all...

Great vid though - making my cautious approach to driving look wussy!!

Good luck on the retest...

Andy

[Patrick]

They used that seat belt bar thing that goes between the rear suspension towers and brings the belts up to the height of the top of the tub. I can't see that holding much weight in an accident, the roll bar solution is much stronger.

Guess that the rear view is unnecessary once it fails.

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by AndyDane

I had that conversation with Terry once - she thought the seats harness holes were sufficient and had passed SVA on their demo at the time - but it had the seatbelt bar that I see on the Marlin price list now comes as an optional extra as part of their seatbelt kit or something like that. Vindi put a bar into mine for that very reason...

Mine deflected too much though and had to be braced underneath but it looks like mine is a far less beefy bar than you've got.

Give the belts a good hard tug and see if the bar moves at all...

Great vid though - making my cautious approach to driving look wussy!!

Good luck on the retest...

Andy

That bar is not going to move, the roll bar will break off first! I could probably jump up and down on it

Couldn't resist give it a bit of stick Not given it a full workout yet waiting to see if anything loosens and falls off first!

[Patrick]

I'll write this in the order I had the conversation (I think with Mark, as Simon is out with a broken finger)

Camber: -0.5
Castor, you can't change this
Toe: parallel

So I said it failed as it would not auto centre from full lock, he said they can't fail you on that as its not a fail point. Ok so I did try asking more and...

Tyre pressure is a major issue, and it turns out you can set the castor! He advised moving the washers out the front and into the back, effectively moving the front wish bone to the back of the car. So will have to experiment!

[MartinClan]

Originally Posted by Patrick

So I said it failed as it would not auto centre from full lock, he said they can't fail you on that as its not a fail point. Ok so I did try asking more and...

Hi Patrick...

It clearly states in the SVA manual that the steering must self center. However I think it's a bit extreme expecting it to do it on full lock - I suspect the SVA man may have got that wrong - it could be worth checking this point.

BR

Robin

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by MartinClan

Hi Patrick...

It clearly states in the SVA manual that the steering must self center. However I think it's a bit extreme expecting it to do it on full lock - I suspect the SVA man may have got that wrong - it could be worth checking this point.

BR

Robin

Yeah that's what I thought. Need to try some setting up, see how it handles then argue the point. However its nice to have some figures to go on now